Roostertail

[AndyBrown]

AND......... BTW JOE! Don Ferrette has earned an Official IMPBA 105 MPH PATCH.

If you will take a look in the rule book you will find that to earn a patch requires a one way pass only. Don had several passes around 105 that weekend and that was his first ever record trial.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Actually not my first SAW event, it was the second SAW that I ran anything & I had attended a few oval trials as a spectator as well. (spent one of those huddling over a gas grill under an enclosed tent trying to stay warm! Remember that one Preston?) First SAW was a couple seasons earlier with my big ol' standard Roadrunner twin going for 90 when it tossed a blade on one of the props trashing the rear of the boat. Got close though, 89 point something I think. This was my first attempt to go over 100mph but I'm not done yet, I can better 108. November was a good month though, set oval scale record the week before, 108 the week after. Not a bad close to the '03 season.....

 

[F.Orlic]

I'm all for noise control, however I don't think it wil save a lot of ponds but it can't hurt. But let first look at noise we have around us and we have no problem with it. Noise is traditionaly a big part of motorsport racing, I don't think to many people would attend Nascar, drag, F1 or any other form of motorsport if they were wishper quiet, imagine 40 + electric cars in nascar race?????WOW, some people like loud music that why we build 300W speakers, others like Harly Davidson etc. If our hobby was classified as a sport and was making significant economical impact on places where races are held city officials would not have problem with the noise and sites would not be lost.

Allways bugs me when people try to sell noise control isue telling people how muffled pipes are faster, can anyone explain to me why would they be faster. If using a muffler didn't make any difference on performance or could actualy improve it than could somebody please, please tell this F1, nascar, drag car, bike racing guys. I'm sure they would not refuse few free extra HP's.

If IMPBA starts to measure Db levels than very clear rules should be writen or it will lead to more bickering. Measuring Db levels can be tricky because Inverse square law. changing a discance affects measured Db a lot. Of course 6 boats will make more noise than 3 (there are formulas to figure out noise increase) and the loudest boat in a pack will be just a part of whole noise. If a 108 Db boat is running together with 95 DB boats you will not see 108 on the meter but closer to 100. You can't measure single boat in a pack because Db meter measures a pressure wave and that would include every noise in a picture (engine, boat vibrations, boat hitting the water, prop hitting the water etc).

 

[Joe_Knesek]

If using a muffler didn't make any difference on performance or could actualy improve it than could somebody please, please tell this F1, nascar, drag car, bike racing guys. I'm sure they would not refuse few free extra HP's.

"All motorcycles must meet sound limits of 102DB/A measured on the "A" scale at 0.5 meters (20 inches). Test procedure will be proscribed by the AMA in accordance with SAEJ1287."

A quote from the AMA Supercross rulebook.

A personal friend of mine, Alley Semar is the factory Honda mechanic for Kevin Windham and has developed more pipes than any of us. He has Pro Circuit's dyno at his disposal and constantly tests the pipes he runs. The last time I purchased a bike from him, the last thing he told me was to repack the silencer after each race weekend to retain the backpressure. As the packing blew out, the bike slowed up.

 

[Don Ferrette]

"If a 108 Db boat is running together with 95 DB boats you will not see 108 on the meter but closer to 100. You can't measure single boat in a pack because Db meter measures a pressure wave and that would include every noise in a picture (engine, boat vibrations, boat hitting the water, prop hitting the water etc)."

Frank-

I can tell you from first hand experience testing with the dB meter this is just not the case. The only thing the dB meter will read is the maximum, not the culmulative. Time after time we were able to single out, correctly, the louder boat in a group with the meter. Regardless, the MAIN thing is not to lose focus on the BIG picture. The dB limit gives everyone a set measurement & if you have everyone making a sincere attempt there won't be a need to read the meter, that's the whole point. The noise reduction will be significant. No more grey area, no more B.S. Who cares how you do it, just you now know where you need to be. Look what Terry Keeley has done with internal stingers, almost 15dB reduction in noise (since the dB scale is not linear that's HUGE!) & no loss of performance with about a buck's worth of brass tubing!! Besides, if you have someone running at 108dB when everyone else out there is under 95 you won't need the meter, that boat will stick out like Shaquille O'Neal in a midget's parade! B)

 

[TimD]

Sorry to do this - I never usually like to mention anything that causes a loss or percieved loss in power, BUT IF EVERYONE HAS TO COMPLY TO THE SAME RULE THEN THE "LOSING POWER IF RUNNING A MUFFLER" ARGUMENT IS IRRELEVANT. It's just like if a rule was passed saying every boat had to comply to a minimum weight - it's the same lack of "performance edge" for everyone you compete against.

SAW, 2 lap records etc. is a little different as there are existing records that the muffler rule didn't cover. The only thing I can think of doing is preserving those records as "pre-muffler records" and start a new record section for muffled - any future records would apply to muffled only.

The only way to stop people trying to bend the rules in this noise issue is a dB limit. Besides - 95dB should be easy to achieve. In Europe it is 80dB!

The other factor I want to address is cost. What does a complete boat cost - hundreds or thousands of dollars - what a waste of money if there is nowhere to run it. For the small percentage of what your investment is worth to put a muffler on it seems to me like a drop in the ocean. It is also a case of making your next pipe purchase a muffled one or get a muffler to go with it.

 

[Don Ferrette]

And BTW-

Terry Keeley used to be one of the biggest anti quiet pipe guys I knew about 5 years ago. I remember at the Internats, '99 I believe, that he had "no quiet pipes" stickers made up & put them on his boats. Now here he is with probably one of the neatest, simplest, cost effective noise reduction mods yet. Hat's off to ya Terry!!

 

[Don Ferrette]

"The only thing I can think of doing is preserving those records as "pre-muffler records" and start a new record section for muffled - any future records would apply to muffled only."

I don't think there is a single non muffled IMPBA record still standing that hasn't been significantly bettered with muffled pipes. B)

 

[TimD]

Just trying to make everyone happy :lol: :lol:

 

[Myron_Sleeva]

Believe this board is an equal opportunity forum . That being said, we have heard the arguement FOR quiet pipes.

It would only be fitting to hear from the "non quiet" pipe faction. We have heard from the conspiracy theorists that believe this is all a plot to further exploit the finances of the easily duped boating public. Then there was the executive position which seems to be sheltering the pro noise camp under the democratic process umbrella.

Why the almost religious tenacity to protect one's right to make as much noise as possible? Is this like one's right to bear arms?

Someone help this newbie get a handle on this.

Myron

 

[Randy Rapedius]

BUT I CAN TELL YOU YOU WILL HAVE YOUR HANDS FULL @ THE NATS. MAKE SURE YOU BRING ALL YOUR FAST BOATS. THEY WILL BE REQUIRED. LET THE BOATS DO THE TALKING........

Hey Joe.

Like you said, you're better off letting your boats do the talking. Boats don't lie.

Randy

 

[Propjockey]

Ok Myron.......I'll bite.

Make our boats as quiet as possible and who does it hurt? Nobody.

Make them as loud as you want and who does it hurt? Everybody.

 

[Terry Keeley]

And BTW-Terry Keeley used to be one of the biggest anti quiet pipe guys I knew about 5 years ago. I remember at the Internats, '99 I believe, that he had "no quiet pipes" stickers made up & put them on his boats. Now here he is with probably one of the neatest, simplest, cost effective noise reduction mods yet. Hat's off to ya Terry!!

That's probably a misunderstanding a lot of people had about me at the time, I really never was against quiet pipes at all, rather the IMPBA trying to adopt rules that were unenforceable and irrelevant to many of us at the time. I did believe it was a matter best left to the individual clubs, and I do still feel that way to a certain extent.

I am however a longstanding member of a great organization (I joined in the mid 70's, #5394) and also feel if the majority wishes to quiet our toys down then so be it. Where I have been going to run in London, Ontario there is no noise issue. Where our new site is within the city of Toronto there are issues, so I'll go with the flow and try to not have the sound of our toys loose a great new site for us...

 

[Guest_Joe W]

RANDY , Bring your fast boat too. If you got any. No excuses..

 

[Joe_Knesek]

RANDY , Bring your fast boat too. If you got any. No excuses..

I get it Joe. This is just you're ploy to get more racers to the Internat! I bet all of your boats really have 2 mufflers on them. What classes are you running?