Riggers from Japan

Intlwaters

Help Support Intlwaters:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Sorry Tom, I accidentally sent the pictures to Gene. Glad you got them. If you post them, Where can I see them?

Hammerhead
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

here are the pics... thanks hammer!

hammer1.jpg


hammer2.jpg


hammer3.jpg


hammer4.jpg
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

I finally finished my 2002 version. It is ready to go. I will take some pics of it and send them to you tomorrow. I will break in the Engine tomorrow. I will also give you a report on how it went. I doubt that I will beable to get it race ready broken in in one day, but I should be able to tell weather it has potential.

P.S. Thanks for posting the pics. COOOOOOOL!
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

here are Hammers pictures of his new hydro... gotta love all that carbon fiber! how did it go hammer??

hammer20021.jpg


hammer20022.jpg


hammer20023.jpg


hammer20024.jpg


hammer20025.jpg
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

It is finished, but the only thing I have been able to do is google at it. I've had two chances to run it since I finished it, but the weather wasn't permitting, so I will try again Wednesday.

You were talking about the long distance races over here. Well, Today I went to have a looksy. Some of the guys who do it, also race heat racing. A few of them let me go along for the ride. It is a pretty difficult race. They race from one end to the other and back on a lake called Ashinoko. The course is 12 kilometers. One of the boats we were following when I rode on the real boat was crusing along between 60 and 70 k/ph. Doesn't seem so fast, but if you could have seen the conditions. There were white caps out there, but the boats just skipped right along over the tops of them.

I will show you some pics when I get them back and scanned. I took my normal camera with me today, so I couldn't get an digital stuff.

Yes, I like carbon. Next I want to try to make something with syntex. It is kind of expensive, but it is supposed to be really strong.

Thanks for posting the pics.

I think I will have to think of another topic to post. The responses on this one are getting a little slow.

Hammer
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

To answer a post, I have heard of the savage outriggers. Seems like ages ago. I'm sorry, but I don't know.

Now for SYNTEX, please go to www.carb.com

This is where I get all my stuff. It is in Hawaii. The people there are really nice, and they are very good about packing. None of the fabric gets messed up.
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

what does the stuff look like??? cant find much about it...
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Well, I asked for a sample piece of it when I ordered my carbon. Well they gave me a sample piece of every thing in their inventory. I probably have enough composites of various kinds to build small rigger. Unfortunately, there were a few with no nomenclature, so I'm not really 100 percent sure. There was a piece included that feels like silk and is pure white. My best guess is that that is it. I will write them some mail to verify. When I know the answer, I will tell you. When I was in the military I was an electronics tech for F-18s.

I do remember then that some of the circuit cards that

we used were made of it. But the resin was green so I have never had the chance to see what it looks like as a fabric.

Get back to you later on it. It might become a selling point for you. Who knows?

Hammer.
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Hammerhead,

I have a few questions about some small details I noticed in your pictures.

It looks like you have a small stuffing box just rear of the motor is there any details you could elaborate on there?

When you make plates on glass do you have a glossy side and a rough side to the finished plate, like on the turn fin can you get glossy on both sides?

How many plys do you make the turn fin with?

What kind for resin do you lay up the fiber with?

Could you describe the sponson booms and how they are mounted to the hull and sponsons?

Ok I could go on and on enough for now, I have been thinking of making my own carbon fiber hull for a while but the standard procedures I get are making plugs and molds or vacume bagging ect. I think your process is great. Thanks for sharing it with us.

-Mike
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Hello Mike! Thank you for your interest.

Here it goes.

The turn fin is 10 ply of 3kx3k carbon. and the mounting area is 20 ply. Making both sides of the turn fin is possible, if you make two molds. Very difficult. So... I didn't do it. I just polished the rough side. Still beautiful, but very easy.

Yes there is a small stuffing box. That is exactly what it is. I ran the shaft tube through it and filled it with 24 hour epoxy. Hard as a rock. A little heavy though.

My sponsons are plated carbon over poly urethane foam. I made the sponsons first, them I drill out the holes for the sponson arms with a drill press, The outer tubes are roughed up and epoxied in Same with the bow of the main body. I packed it with poly foam. too.

I do this with all my boats. Never had a problem.

The epoxy I use, I buy in Japan, so I douht that you can get it in the states. It is called KKK Super Clear. It is made by Craft Resin ltd.

I think that is it. If I missed something. let me know.

If you need a pic of my mold, then let me know.

Thanks Hammer
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Hammer,

Real neat stuff!! My wife and I were just there back in February, my mother was from Yamato, we went to Hakone, Lake Ashinoko, Shinjuku. That would have been a treat to see them run while I was there. I visited several hobby shops, but, found no boat stuff. Japan is great, everyone should visit.

Jr. Branham
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Really, I live really close to Yamato. There is also a boat only RC shop within an hour drive of Yamato. Guess you were looking in the wrong spots. The next time you come, please check out OFUNA Boats. It is in Kamakura city. They have tons of boat stuff. If you plan to come to Japan again, send me some mail. I will take you out to see our club run. I might even have a spare I can let you drive.

Hammer.
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Hammer,

Thanks for answering my questions, How about just a few more?

For a .21 size rigger how do you decide on hull size and motor location and the CG. Motor location looks like it's centered in the hull. The hull is alot longer than the ones we run here.

What is the layup for the sponson sheeting?

How much fabric do you think it takes to build a rigger?

Is the western thought on the sponson bottoms ok or is there something special there?

-Mike
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

first of all, with a .21, the motor mount is a big issue when deciding the size. If I use a four inch. Then I can use my mold for my .90. It is set up for four inch. Most people over here use a TRK 80mm mount. It is a little bigger than 3 inches wide. (sorry, I'm terrible at math)

For the length, We make them any were from 700mm to

800mm long. We like to have the turnfin more to the back of the boat, so we put the fly wheel of the engine forward of the CG and the leading edge of the turn fin at CG. You will have to slide things around to find the perfect balance. People do have different prefs though.

For sponson lay up, I think the most important thing about sponson layup is that the riding surface must be between 4.5 and 5 degrees down agle in relation to the bottom of the tub. The rear points should be 2.5 to 3degrees. That is the rule of thumb here.

I have put Jaguar sponsons on my boat before, just for kicks. They were fine for the conditions that you guys run in. Actually if you are going to make your first boat, I will make one suggestion, Go to Tidewater, or one of those hydro makers, they will sell you just the sponsons.

Jaguar sponsons are about 45 or 50 dollars. ( if my memory is correct) Sponsons are a real pain in the rear to make, and if you construct them in the same way you do with wood ones, like I do. It will be more economical to just go ahead and make them out of wood. Or use the wood ones when you race. This will save you the crying when you crash.

I wasn't really sure what you meant. " What is the layup for the sponson sheeting?" Do you mean, How many ply? If so I use 4 for my .90, but I think 3 will be just fine for a .21

It took 7.5 yards of 50inch wide 3kx3k carbon to make

the boat that you see in this forum.

For a .21 I would imagine that you will need at least 5 yards.

I don't recommend using carbon to make turnfins. I just was playing with my left over carbon. It looks cool, but when I ran my boat for the first time yesterday. I didn't have enough courage to try it out. I used a stainless

turnfin. For a smaller boat, it might be okay. I use carbon turn fins on my AC models Wave Slave. They work great, But the engine is only a .21.

When I first wrote this article, I was ignorant to conditions that we in Japan vs. those of you in the states have to deal with. I have changed my thoughts. about the prehistoric outrigger. If you bring the best over here to race we will beat you guys, but on the other hand, I feel that if we went there to race you, You would beat us. We run on much rougher water, we don't have lane rules, our course may be a bit smaller than yours. The only rule we have that is similar to a lane rule is, that if some one is trying to pass you cannot block him.

In the states, I think you will do just fine with the mentality of an American racer. I still want to continue sharing my ideas and talking to the guys in this forum. I think there is a lot of benefit in it for me, too.

The Japanese are also very interested in what you guys are doing. so I'm kind of the library that they turn to, since I'm the only foreign member of the JMPBA.

I will go and take some pics of my mold and mail them to you. This way you will get a better idea about what I'm talking about.

If you have anymore Q's then shooooooot!

Thanks, Hammer
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

hey hammer... think you could talk one of your Japanese buddies over there to start a web page... so few of them exist... we can host them for free! like i said before... I would like to think this really is international waters... for a while we had a singapore web site... actually it is still there i just took it off the main page because it went almost 2 years with out an update...

if not... oh well... in the past i spent a bunch of time at the 2 japanese web sites that i knew of trying to learn... this is a great thread for me to learn from...

you can send mold pics to me for posting anytime you want.... or any racing pics from japan... it's cool to see what's going on
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Thanks again for your input on this subject Hammer ;D

Do you think that the sponson spacing and extra tub length is what contributes to better handling in rough water, Or is it more likely to be the CG point being closer to the transom?

Have you played around with Vaccuum Bagging or compression moulding the carbon? I have a friend who has made a whole rudder and strut assembly out of compression moulded Carbon weave. Rediculously stiff and very light compared to Alloy or stainless. Looks cool 8)

Tim.
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Well Tim, I've never done it myself before. I know a guy who uses that method to make gliders. He uses a refridgerator compressor. I have never seen him actually doing it, but I have seen some of the gliders that he has made. The working area is very small and still he is able to make those tight bends with the fabric.

I would really like to know more about it. If you know any good URLs let me know.

Hammer
 
Re:prehistoric outriggers

Hammer,

Thanks for all the information. Opens up my eyes to a lot of rigger theory. I'm running an older Ellison boat with a Zenoah in it. I am afraid I'm hooked.

I have two questions for you. I see on some of the rigger's what appear to be aluminum angle between the left sponson booms. What is the purpose for it?

And could you also send me the pictures of your molds?

Thanks again,

David
 
Back
Top