Rigger madness......

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Don, thanks for the update, I remember reading something on the K-Zam and Gary's record, but I did not know he got Glenn's too :eek:

And yeah, I would like to see a pic of that boat too if one comes around.

What engine, pipe combo was he using?

Gene :D
 
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The big secret! The K-Zam was a .21 hull. LOL

Guys are getting way too crazy with supposed weights and cunstruction materials. Carbon fiber..............big deal! By the time you seal it the weight is the same as wood.

In my opinion, if you want to build a good .12 then stick with the basics and quit trying to make a lesser engine run record speeds. By the way, my .12 seemed perfectly heat race able and it was going as fast if not faster than my .21 SGX.

Wood, foam, glue and standard hardware.
 
Hi Preston,

I see your point, but the kick that I get is using materials or design that has not been tryed before.

Andy and I had a conversation about hull design at Jim's RC Boatdock a while back,

My statement was pull ideas from different designs and come up with something new and different, He agreed and said "The thrill is in the adventure"

Thats kinda where I am going here ;)

Gene :D
 
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Well I guess what Andy said is the last word. Nothing against CMD, but it seems like everbody is to busy blowing them (I can say that on IW, right?). Keep an open mind. At least Andy and John (who nobody ever mentions) entertain and even encourage input from competitors. I just told you what worked and it went right down the toilet. Why ask what works if you are set on doing the opposite?
 
Well not the opposite, just different, I take input from everyone, and come up with idea's. I never dismiss anyone's comments, and am open to suggestions allway's.

As far as Andy and John we are all just glad to see them here, Glad you are here too,

Gene :D
 
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If I wanted a fast good handling boat I would have Andy build me one, I think his are the best. Then I could sit and admire the great work he did on it.

Some of us really enjoy design and building there own, then sit and admire there own work. There are allot of designer/builders here.

I think Prestons comment about CF is right on, if your not careful it can weigh more. I think the problem is we build with CF the same way we build with wood.

Gene is stimulating some different thinking, he may come up with something or not, but those who get involved will have fun.

-MikeP
 
Preston's point is on the mark (not the blowing part! :lol: ) don't re-invent the wheel, refine it. What looks good on a computer might very well be a turd on the water. I'm not saying it won't work, but go with something established in design & hone the total package. Then maybe look at this shape change or that weight reduction. Without a benchmark you'll never really know if it's a better design or not. And always only make ONE change at a time for the same above reason. While Glenn's boat & the CAD drawing are cool looking, Preston has already proved it's WAY more than that as he used KP's .21 SAW boat for a base. What gets you there is the COMPLETE package & ALOT of time at the pond. Can I ask a question- why build a record boat with all this thought & debate as to what it should look like, how much it should weigh, etc & want to go looking on Ebay (saw earlier post) for your bargain motor? :blink: The heart of any record boat is a killer powerplant & with the smaller motors even something like one run too lean can mean the kiss of death to speed. I watched KP at oval trials run soooo close to topping the .21 record but just couldn't quite get there. A few weeks earlier the same boat was going fast enough to easily smash the record. What happened?? KP told me a couple days later the small bearing had a faint "tick" to it so the motor just couldn't quite get there. With the right motor, pipe, prop, set up etc. something that looks like a 2x4 will haul ass.......... Just ask John Finch! B)
 
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Don,

Tell them that the 21 oval boat was a factory RoadRunner Extreme. Why redesign it? Record or not the speed is there. Andy's Straightaway boat is 4 years old. So I guess it started at 100 and now goes 125+. And only now he sees fit for a redesign. (I think that is correct for the most part)

If you are going 60 now you most likely don't need a boat from Star Wars to do 65. You must learn to take advantage of what you have. With the same motor, pipe, and boat the right prop will take you from 70 to 87 in a mono! Don't beleive it? Look at the new Seaducer F Mono Straightaway record. Once again that was with a factory boat. The same goes for the SGX. Don did 108mph with off the self stuff. How many people are able to do that with their SGX? RoadRunner? Seaducer? For the most part the boats are already here! Make them work.

Finch did his homework as well. Although I don't think it was necessrily speed that gained him the 1/3 oval record. The boat was no faster than it was a few years ago. Actually it was slower with the speeds I saw. Years back it was running 99. This past trials I hit it at 91. What changed? Driveability! Want to go faster? Learn how to drive.

And as far as the A record. Don saw this boat doing 68-72 mph a week before trials. On minor change and the record went to 78 with a single pass at 82.

Wood, foam, glue, big clunky hardware.
 
The intent of this thred was a design excersize of takeing a fast and different design .12 and scaleing it up to a .21. Not building a record boat.

The bargain engine was to test the handeling of the prototype so if it went phooey and ker plunk to the bottom, no great loss. One of the great things about a open forum is the free exchange of ideas and thoughts about designs. My intent was to open up the scope of current models and see how some of the composites might do. Dont want to reinvent the wheel, just a different way of thinking about things.

Gene :D
 
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P-Man you are right I did forget to mention that KP's boat was an off the shelf Roadrunner Extreme. To be exact, it was Joe Knesek's old boat. Yes, my 108 was with off the shelf stuff too, a bone stock motor at that. How did I get to 108? The WHOLE package was there- motor, pipe, prop, fuel, set up, etc. Preston, KP & myself spent an ENTIRE day at the pond just to get from 68 to 72 with the .12 boat. A prop change here, a strut adjustment there, change sponson attack angles, pipe adjustment, on & on & on. I started testing and dialing in my SAW boat 2 months out, running off to the pond every chance we got. Each trip yielded a little more speed, a little more knowledge. It's no different with having a consistent, winning heat racing boat. You would be amazed what a day at the pond with just one boat what you can find. But having a benchmark to start with is what will truly tell you if you are heading in the right direction, wether it's a record trial boat, a heat race boat or whatever. It's kinda like singin' the blues ...ya gotta pay your dues!!! :p :p :p :p
 
;) Thought I might chime in and let you guys know that Old and Proven designs are still one of the best platforms to build from.

I have been a active racer in nitro and gas class's for @ 15 years now and have owned and run many boats in that time but my overall interest has been strongest in the gas rigger class. There are a LOT of Gas riggers being raced and the fastest seem to be very streamlined and aerodynamicly clean.

My personel Gas rigger is a splash of a "Pinkert Coyote" 90 size. This design is at least 20 years old !! and not really a hull you see much of any more. It's big and wide, has huge sponsons and weighs in at a heavy 12#'s. My point being while NOT the fastest in a straight line it is super fast in oval trim and has helped me to set and hold the 6 lap NAMBA national 6 lap record 2 years in a row!

Refining the small stuff is really what seperates the fast boats from truly awsom fast boats. :D So take any boat that overall works good and make it work great ! You will be happier and able to handle rougher water. Long low and swoopy lines make a sweet looking boat that go's fast on near perfect water, but it does not make a better mouse trap.

Scott
 
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All good points Guy's :D

Only thing I might add is dont be afraid to experiment a little,

But I have been told that I'm a little different thru the year's :blink: :p
 
Slideblues said:
All good points Guy's  :D Only thing I might add is dont be afraid to experiment a little,

But I have been told that I'm a little different thru the year's  :blink:   :p
You know Gene, I think we all are "a little different" in others eyes. Grown men (& women) playing with toy boats. They just don't understand............. :blink: :blink:
 
dferrette said:
P-Man you are right I did forget to mention that KP's boat was an off the shelf Roadrunner Extreme. To be exact, it was Joe Knesek's old boat.
And to think that boat didn't get it's reserve on e-bay! Might be the cheapest SAW hydro around.
 
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This is the way I see why using composite materials is important for the hobby. I'm sure you all have seen boat designed by Mr. Arne Holt used for setting FE SAW record and right there is your answer why composites are better then good ole wood. I have built number of carbon/kevlar and been doing it for 12 years (back then very few people have seen a boat built entierly with composites)

If you want to build cheap classic style boat square tub, square sponsons than wood is way to go, but if you want someting little more complex wood won't do it. Yes, Preston you are right many people can't build light composite boat , however 3lb composite boat is many times sronger than the best 3lb wood boat. I think we all know about broken tubs on Eagle SG's , RR ultra lite and extreme as well, I assure you, it would take a lot more speed than we achieve for that to happen with CF, I can build any boat with composites that anyone else can build with wood and it will weight the same or less and be much stronger, but nobody can build a wood boat as complex as one possible with composites and come even close in weight. Another thing CF boats stay the same weight after many years without any significant detirioration and that can't be said for wood boats. How many boats have wood cowls, I can't think of any , again glass ones aren't any lighter but if you build wood cowl of the same shape it would weight twice as much or more. A good friend of mine (many of you know him) told me once that if you do same as everybody else does you can only be as good as them. Most people who build the great boats didn't get there following others, but rather following their own ideas.

At the end all comes down to what gives you the most pleasure; buy the newest and the gratest boat every year and run with the rest or be like some of us who enjoy experimenting and learning about boats and engines.

Advanced Racing Tech

Frank Orlic
 
Hi Frank,

Welcome to the forum :D

I think the one common thing we all got going on here is "Go Fast, Have Fun"

And make a few new friends while you are doin it.

Just myself, I enjoy try'n out new ideas and using new materials, not everybody's Cup O' Tea, but I sure get a kick out of it,

Gene B)
 
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Hey Mike,

Whoa..... Lots of juicy info there :eek:

Chapters 8 and 11 were Cool, Stress factor diagram and Vac bagging methods,

Thanks for the link ;)

Gene :D
 
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Mike, what flywheel and collet did you use with your .12 ?

One I got comming has the std thred shaft.
 
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I made a flywheel, it used the standard size collet that comes on the .12 motors.

Wade drew it up in CAD. I was going to get some made on better equipment but they wanted to much for the setup.

What do you think about Aluminum vs. brass or steel flywheels. I am thinking my aluminum one its too light. If thats the case I hear that Climate boats has some brass ones.

-Mike
 
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