Question About O.S. XM Water Cooled Engine

[RodneyPierce]

^^^ yeah buddy

 

[RonShaw]

This is a copied reply that I sent to Larry via PM, in most of its entirety.

This is the way I see it. Seems pretty simple to me....

The way I see it is pretty simple. As long as you have both the air cooled head, and muffler extension, the motor should be legal, regardless if it started out as a water cooled at some point. That seems like a direct violation of the rules, and technically it would be. However, there is absolutely no way to tell the rest of the parts between air cooled and water cooled. There is no way to police it, in other words.

 

Now, if someone shows up with a water cooled head, with the muffler extension (or vice versa) it would most definitely be illegal, and should not be allowed to run. The tech inspector/CD there at the race (and every race) is who makes that call.

 

Since these two parts (as far as I know) are the only difference between to the two versions (aside from a water pickup/no water pickup), there really is no dilemma. You either have the full water cooled/stock muffler configuration or you have the full air cooled/extended set-up. There is no in between.

 

Hope that helps.

Yep, what Gabe said above pretty much sums it up yet again........

 

[LarryConrad]

This is a copied reply that I sent to Larry via PM, in most of its entirety.

This is the way I see it. Seems pretty simple to me....

The way I see it is pretty simple. As long as you have both the air cooled head, and muffler extension, the motor should be legal, regardless if it started out as a water cooled at some point. That seems like a direct violation of the rules, and technically it would be. However, there is absolutely no way to tell the rest of the parts between air cooled and water cooled. There is no way to police it, in other words.

 

Now, if someone shows up with a water cooled head, with the muffler extension (or vice versa) it would most definitely be illegal, and should not be allowed to run. The tech inspector/CD there at the race (and every race) is who makes that call.

 

Since these two parts (as far as I know) are the only difference between to the two versions (aside from a water pickup/no water pickup), there really is no dilemma. You either have the full water cooled/stock muffler configuration or you have the full air cooled/extended set-up. There is no in between.

 

Hope that helps.

Yep, what Gabe said above pretty much sums it up yet again........

Only for those folks who race IMPBA Sport Outboard class with no reading comprehension skills.Section H page 11 Engine Secifications: 1.Engines must be standard factory production with a minimum of 100 units available for sale to the general public. To be eligible for the International Regatta the engines must have been offered for sale to the general public not less than Ninety (90) days prior to that year's International Regatta. 2. The power head and lower unit must be of the same manufacturer and model. 3.The engines external parts shall remain as originally manufactured in series except as shown in part 4. Clairifacation: NO WATER COOLED ENGINE PARTS SHALL BE USED WITH AIR COOLED ENGINE PARTS. Common engine parts that are used on both engine models may be interchanged. Slide valve exhaust adapters may not be used with carburetor equipped engines. 4. The following exceptions will be allowed in the Sport Outboard Tunnel specifications: a. Adhesives (loctite), setscrews and jam nuts. b. Any carb linkage arms. c. Any motor mount. d. Any glow plug, fuel brand and mixture. e. Any type steering arm. f. Any flywheel nut. g. The lower unit below the cavitation plate may be trimmed, sharpened or polished. No material shall be added to the lower unit. h. Adjustable mixture controls will be allowed, however the original needle valve must remain in it's original position.

 

[Gator 340]

I have a question to this.

wouldnt changing the head and muffler, basically be the same as changing cases? and aren't the cases the same and the internals of the case the same in each motor? So couldnt you look at it as switching the common engine parts vs. switching heads and mufflers that are different in each motor?

So, taking it from this point of view, the motor is then legal, isn't it?

Just a question,

Brandon

 

[LarryConrad]

Brandon,The IMPBA rule book can be vague, and contain a lot of easily misconstrued gray areas, but in this case it clearly states that "The engines external parts shall remain as originally manufactured in series except as shown in part 4." The air cooled engine is a different engine series than the water cooled engine,hence OS calls it the V2. The heads and exhaust systems are external parts. If you put the head and exhaust off a V2 air cooled engine on the water cooled version of the engine, the engine no longer remains as originally manufactured in series. The rule then continues with "Clarification: No water cooled engine parts may be used with air cooled engine parts."

 

[RodneyPierce]

Alright, this is getting ridiculous in all honesty guys. One question Mr. Conrad. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TECH THAT???? Everything else on the motor is THE EXACT SAME. Anyone could add the above, and you would not be able to tell them that is was not a V2 motor.......as they are identical minus the things stated. A person cant enforce a rule off of "hearsay" so there is no way to tech this situation. Period. Unless your watching someone switch it out in plain site, there is no way to tell. Im not calling you out here, just asking.

This is not a question of ethics, its a simple fact. It can not be proven that a v1 was changed over to a v2.

 

[Beau Parsons]

I keep hearing about IMPBA, We run in colorado guidelines with NAMBA, so does this change anything? Lets take IMPBA out and focus on just NAMBA please?

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

I keep hearing about IMPBA, We run in colorado guidelines with NAMBA, so does this change anything? Lets take IMPBA out and focus on just NAMBA please?

No.

JD

 

[RonShaw]

Brandon,The IMPBA rule book can be vague, and contain a lot of easily misconstrued gray areas........

Hahahahaha.............I totally agree with this statement for sure..... And people sometimes use these gray areas to challenge what we all know is the intent and purpose, only because it's not "spelled out" in the rule book. If the rule book clarified EVERY gray area, it would be thicker than an entire set of encyclopedias. We have to get back to the standards our hobby was created to represent and stop trying things that we all know are wrong, instead of going the "since it's not clarified" route and try it anyway, and produce a lot of un-warranted DRAMA!!!!!........... :blink:

.........and that's all I'm going to say about that...........

 

[LarryConrad]

Beau, it has been posted several times in this thread that NAMBA rules allow it. Rodney, How to enforce it? Dated sales receipt for the engine purchase. The V2 has only been availible for a reletively short time, the water cooled version cosiderably longer.

 

[RodneyPierce]

Beau, it has been posted several times in this thread that NAMBA rules allow it. Rodney, How to enforce it? Dated sales receipt for the engine purchase. The V2 has only been availible for a reletively short time, the water cooled version cosiderably longer.

10-4. But would think that would have to apply to all sport motors then wouldnt it? If we are all trying to keep things "fair" then I would think that would be required of every single sport engine in existence if you want to run it. This thread is clearly going no where. Getting a little to political for this guy. Im out.

 

[RonShaw]

I keep hearing about IMPBA, We run in colorado guidelines with NAMBA, so does this change anything? Lets take IMPBA out and focus on just NAMBA please?

Sorry Beau, looks like this is a sore spot in IMPBA as well. I think JD summed it up pretty well as far as NAMBA is concerned. Change both the head and muffler, remove the water cooling fittings, and go race!!! Good luck this year with your new fleet of Vision's.........

 

[Beau Parsons]

I think this thread is been beat to death, I am going to run the **** out of my boats this year, especially my 2 newly oufitted set of Vision Craft boats. If I do require more speed I will be outfitting a new air cooled head and muffler extension on my water cooled version. Our club is going to allow me to do this swap, because we are just cool like that. LOL

 

[Grimracer]

With Tower Hobbies not stocking the water cooled version any longer, I have a thought why can't you buy the extension muffler, and air cooled head from the Version 2 O.S. motor and swap out the air cooled head and extension to the water cooled motor, isnt this basically making the water cooled version now a Version 2? I have heard that all the internal components are the same within both motors? So why spend the money on buying a Version 2, if you can buy the parts from tower for roughly 100.00 dollars and you basically have a Versions 2. This is just a thought any help would be great in answering my questions.

 

Thanks Beau Parsons

Back to the question..

Nothing is stopping you from just buying the new parts and bolting them on.. NOTHING.. It will run wonderful either way.



Warning..



IF' you race...



you will want to check with your local govern body and see if the change is allowed.



Truly the bottom line.. Adjust to what YOUR org allows..



Then.. IF the allowance is "grey" contact your orgs Outboard Director as ask him or her for clarification.



Grim

 

[LarryConrad]

Brandon,The IMPBA rule book can be vague, and contain a lot of easily misconstrued gray areas........

Hahahahaha.............I totally agree with this statement for sure..... And people sometimes use these gray areas to challenge what we all know is the intent and purpose, only because it's not "spelled out" in the rule book. If the rule book clarified EVERY gray area, it would be thicker than an entire set of encyclopedias. We have to get back to the standards our hobby was created to represent and stop trying things that we all know are wrong, instead of going the "since it's not clarified" route and try it anyway, and produce a lot of un-warranted DRAMA!!!!!........... :blink:

.........and that's all I'm going to say about that...........

Editing a sentence into an out of context statement, and posting it as a quote doesn't change the fact that in this case it is clearly spelled out in the rules.

 

[jaxracer]

Guys, in all honesty and not to step on anybody's toes, like Rodney said, this thread has become monotonous and you're essentially beating a dead horse.

Bottom line is, listen to your IMPBA outboard director James Clegg. You can't tech the difference in the engines if you swap both pieces so therefore it doesn't matter. Regardless of what the rule says you'll never know if the engine used to be a V1 and now it's a V2.

Realistically you can't expect somebody to keep their receipt from their date of purchase and carry it to all the races without loosing it. What if I bought my engine from Cousin John's Uncle's sister's cousin who is just a sport boater that doesn't race and tossed all the paperwork in the garbage. Or all of a sudden you're going to prevent a new guy entering the hobby from running his boat at the race because he didn't know that he needed the paperwork or because the guy before him swapped out the head and can and didn't tell him?

It's a hobby guys. You're making this way too technical. If you swap both parts and it looks just like a V2 would come from the manufacturer, then they can run it. It doesn't matter what the rule book says or you're interpretation of it. You won't know the difference and therefore you can't disqualify anybody.

Now off to the shop, I've got some crossbreed O.S. crossbreed engines to build. h34r: :lol:

-Mitch

 

[RonShaw]

.............Now off to the shop, I've got some crossbreed O.S. crossbreed engines to build. h34r: :lol:

-Mitch

.............and North Florida Pine to smoke!!!!...............

I'm outta here as well.....

 

[topfuel443]

Ive been on IW atleast 10 or 12 years now, and this is an annual event (maybe even more...) in one fashion or another. Its just the nature of the beast, and we all usually push through it just fine.

Go get your boats ready, racing season is now!