Outboard rules and class ideas needed

[RonShaw]

Sounds like they want your head Ron

Hahaha, as my ole buddy Timmy used to say, "Ya think????"...... Hopefully we can make some progress by getting the support of all of our members for much needed clarifications.

 

[Mike Culhane]

I call this innovation...

 

[obrien]

Mike the funny thing is, that was done back in the 70's. a gentleman by the name of Jackie Wilson drove it. The boat had a cosworth engine with a number 2 speedmaster

I have a couple of pics in my phone

 

[JAMEYGALLIHER]

I would like to know the reason behind the proposed 90 degree transom , last time I checked the STV , Mirage & quartershot tunnel boats DO NOT HAVE 90 degree transoms from the sponsons

 

[Bob Kensill]

Those full size boats use outboards that require as much as 15 degrees from the 90 degree transom. There are no full size racing outboards, that I know of, that can be used with a transom that is straight up and down. On the other hand, K&B, OS and Thunder Tiger model outboards are all designed to be mounted on vertical transoms that are very close to 90 degrees from the running surface. There are no "turntable" outboards used on any full size tunnels at this time, that I know about.

How far do we want to go when we allow an inboard power plant to be mounted in the back of a tunnel and still call it an outboard. I am all for innovation, but what do we want to set as limits. I welcome all reasonable arguements and ideas, but if you talk like an idiot, I will probably not take you too seriously. If you want to see "out of the box" thinking, wait till I get my new SAW boats going.

 

[RonShaw]

I call this innovation...http://youtu.be/4buTnduRJXc

Thats F1 Catamaran Technology, not OPC.

 

[RonShaw]

I would like to know the reason behind the proposed 90 degree transom , last time I checked the STV , Mirage & quartershot tunnel boats DO NOT HAVE 90 degree transoms from the sponsons

Jamey,

Point is, there is still a vertical transom. 85-115 degree vertical would be acceptable, with no tunnel extending aft of the transom. Lower units must be production units and pre-approved before allowed in OPC classes. This stops one-off's in full size and would do the same for RC outboard classes.

 

[julianconde]

Ron I'm all about following the rules and Improving the rules yes just like they did with the twins to allow bigger displacement engines CMB had available and so did NAMBA. Sometimes we all dont get along and cant make everyone happy yes thats a fact. I'm in no way after your head or looking out for anyone (good ole boy system)I do apreaciate what you and bob are doing for the hobby that goes without question and you both have my respect.

I have always like tunnels, always will and I will be racing them soon again. I do agree with what bob said about when does a outboard start to become a inboard and there has to be a limitation can can agree with that.

Ron and Bob I do have a suggestion to help on the thread. Maybe someone should talk to John Otto to look at his boat, take some measurements, Pictures and use his boat in order to come up with a proposal for a rule and set limitations, angles ect. That would be productive would you guys agree ??

 

[RonShaw]

Julian,

Its not about any hull in particular. As you can see from Lohring's post, there are several of these popping up. No measurements required, just clarifications on the outboard rules we already have, and maybe a couple of definitions. Thanks.

 

[dion smith]

Would these tunnels pass the " no tunnel aft transom" rule? They are both production hulls. The tunnel extends around 3 inches on the gas tunnel

 

[Bob Kensill]

I will post pics of Otto's boat later today. I have no problems with extended tunnel floors. Most wood boats are built that way. That was Ron Shaw that did not like it.

 

[rumrunner]

I'll will post some pictures of mine if I can.

 

[Darin Jordan]

, with no tunnel extending aft of the transom.

What are we considering the "transom"??? If I'm not mistaken (haven't taken it out to look in awhile), my Warhead has a recessed transom, and the tunnel angles out aft of the motor-mounting "transom" to meet the sponson "transom"...

As for only allowing "production" lower units?? That's just silly... OPC is "rare" enough now... it's not like K&B or O.S. Max are pumping these variations out... Is "Lawless" (my preference) considered "production"??? Are you going to tell Kris Flynn that he can't run his custom made carbon fiber unit??

I can understand wanting the "outboard" attached only to the aft of the transom. Not sure a complete re-writing of the rules is necessary to achieve that. Let's not get too crazy with specific definitions. Every time NAMBA or IMPBA does that, it eliminates a bunch of already existing, and perfectly legal, hulls. Usually for some silly reason.

R/C boat racing is a pretty limited part of this hobby, overall. There just aren't that many of us, and even fewer race OPC. I'd be careful how strictly you try to define this. Can't afford to thin out the ranks much more.

 

[Grimracer]

Good post Darin.

Look.. what we have is fine.. IF one feels there are issues champion a class with all those new rule ideas and see if there is any meat on the bone.

Grim

 

[Bob Kensill]

My main reason for this post, as I have stated before, is to develop some rules for some classes that are not in the rule book yet. I am not the one trying to define the transom location or restrict what lower units can be used. I would like to bring IMPBA and NAMBA in line with each other as far as rules for outboard tunnels go. This will not be an easy task and some feelings will get hurt, but it is long overdue.

 

[Bob Kensill]

If we are going to allow these "turntable" style drive systems to run, maybe there needs to be some technical specs, to establish the definition of what is going to be allowed.

 

[HTV Boats]

This all was started to improve a system that has been working for a number of years. It had degraded to a futile discussion that is not helping the advancement of model outboards. Definitions? have you seen a full size OPC boat with stumble pads, a turn fin, Trim tabs on a tunnel hull. (wonder who has them) or a flex cable drive period. We are not anywhere near scale and what we have is with some concessions to make things work. Design liberties are what we race. I do not see any large trend in "turntable" units. Joe Colagero made a few for gas as there was a reliability problem. With the few gas tunnels in existence there might be a percentage there. I have been to many races and 7 years at Charleston and yet to see a .21 with this drive. Shane and another are in open class as 7.5 lowers don't do well with heavy .80-1.0 cu in outboards. That leaves one to my knowledge, John Otto's .45 CMB. I have raced against Johns boat since he created it. Jay and I have more heats against him that most as were local. At first it was easier to beat him as the boat went straight real fast but didn't finish much. In time John has made it work. Is it a racing advantage? Not in my opinion. John himself is a racing advantage. So all this crap for one "D" tunnel. People quitting and not getting started. As Darin eluded to production of OB lowers is not an industry priority. If it attaches to the rear of the boat and pivots as one complete steering unit it probably is an outboard. The turntable could be attached to a 90 degree angle and bolt to a "conventional" transom and have vertical adjustment. Transom insets have been around since the "Tom Cat". Mic

 

[RonShaw]

, with no tunnel extending aft of the transom.

What are we considering the "transom"??? If I'm not mistaken (haven't taken it out to look in awhile), my Warhead has a recessed transom, and the tunnel angles out aft of the motor-mounting "transom" to meet the sponson "transom"...

As for only allowing "production" lower units?? That's just silly... OPC is "rare" enough now... it's not like K&B or O.S. Max are pumping these variations out... Is "Lawless" (my preference) considered "production"??? Are you going to tell Kris Flynn that he can't run his custom made carbon fiber unit??

I can understand wanting the "outboard" attached only to the aft of the transom. Not sure a complete re-writing of the rules is necessary to achieve that. Let's not get too crazy with specific definitions. Every time NAMBA or IMPBA does that, it eliminates a bunch of already existing, and perfectly legal, hulls. Usually for some silly reason.

R/C boat racing is a pretty limited part of this hobby, overall. There just aren't that many of us, and even fewer race OPC. I'd be careful how strictly you try to define this. Can't afford to thin out the ranks much more.

Darin,

There used to be only K&B. There are now a plethora of production outboard lowers on the market and available. It will be as simple as making a list of lowers allowed. If someone makes a custom unit like a REK, and it is production and available to everyone, then it can be submitted to be included on the list. The elimination of the tunnel floor aft of the transom was just another idea I was throwing out there for the sake of discussion and this thread. Another idea, thats all. These one-off lowers should not be allowed in our outboard classes, period. Again, that is my opinion. They should at least conform to OPC tunnel rules.

 

[RonShaw]

If it attaches to the rear of the boat and pivots as one complete steering unit it probably is an outboard. The turntable could be attached to a 90 degree angle and bolt to a "conventional" transom and have vertical adjustment. Transom insets have been around since the "Tom Cat". Mic

Mic,

This is key. Attaching to the rear of the boat on a conventional vertical transom. This would conform to standard outboard rules and is a part of what we are discussing.

BTW, adjustable after planes are allowed, as mine are a continuation of the main ride pad, no breaks. Trim tabs are mounted on top to the transom to allow adjustment. Usually they don't work but for some reason, gas tunnels like them.

 

[Bob Kensill]

I would say there needs to be a limit as to how far forward the power head can be for both types of lowers, transom mount and turntable mount. Maybe a dimension from the back of the running surface-forward, or from the cg-rearward. The turntable mount shall only be used in mod outboard classes for nitro, and in any electric or gas outboard class.