MPH?

[Harold Duncan]

Bone stock out of the box 3.5 K&B on a Dumas Hot Shot Sprint running 50% nitro...

Anyone ever known of one that would run low to mid 40's?

Is it possible for this boat to run that kind of speeds and has one ever been known to hit the low 50 mark with a bone stock 3.5? h34r:

 

[Speed Jr.]

Realistic "Heat racing" speeds, low 40's is possible...Of course it can go faster with the boat and motor on the edge. "Bone Stock" is a grey area. FYI "Stock Tunnel" does not mean "out of the box bone stock." I would recomend you do go through the motor before running.

Larry Jr.

 

[topfuel443]

Low to mid 40's is fairly easily doable with a K&B on a hotshot. If it will race like that with 6-7 other boats is another story.

 

[TUNLBOTR]

Bone stock out of the box 3.5 K&B on a Dumas Hot Shot Sprint running 50% nitro...

Anyone ever known of one that would run low to mid 40's?

Is it possible for this boat to run that kind of speeds and has one ever been known to hit the low 50 mark with a bone stock 3.5? h34r:

Harold,

I have a K&B 3.5 in my hands that is 10 years old, a ss that on the edge will run mid 40's at best. Old Trophy tunnel, but did crank work to it. Even now the OS on my Lynx is a 50ish trimmed for heat racing, but have seen 56 on the ragged edge out of one with a pitched up x1440. But you can't turn it because its LOOSE LOOSE. A properly set up boat can outrun a boat 5 mph faster on the course, lap times and speed are 2 different animals. A slower boat in lane 1 can hold off the pack with good turn speed and exit speed. Prop and setup are everything.

 

[SayMikey]

Bone stock out of the box 3.5 K&B on a Dumas Hot Shot Sprint running 50% nitro...

Anyone ever known of one that would run low to mid 40's?

Is it possible for this boat to run that kind of speeds and has one ever been known to hit the low 50 mark with a bone stock 3.5? h34r:

Harold,

I have a K&B 3.5 in my hands that is 10 years old, a ss that on the edge will run mid 40's at best. Old Trophy tunnel, but did crank work to it. Even now the OS on my Lynx is a 50ish trimmed for heat racing, but have seen 56 on the ragged edge out of one with a pitched up x1440. But you can't turn it because its LOOSE LOOSE. A properly set up boat can outrun a boat 5 mph faster on the course, lap times and speed are 2 different animals. A slower boat in lane 1 can hold off the pack with good turn speed and exit speed. Prop and setup are everything.

Its called Sport Tunnel as inside the motor anything goes. The carb and exhaust must remain as is. Stock is a poor choice of words all thou an OS will run quick with just a squish band adjustment

 

[Bill Britton]

Harold

As I told you on the phone the other day. Go out and race for a while and just have fun. Once you get settled in, then start looking for the speed. The K&B will get you going and will be fine. Later when your driving skills improve and you get a newer hull, then go for the O.S.

Till then just go out and have fun with the equipment you have. This hobby has a learning curve that takes years, not weeks.

Now just go racing!

 

[Bill Gibson]

Harold, what Bill Britton said is right on the money! You might be pleasantly surprised at how well you might do if you just concentrate on FINISHING 6 laps and having fun instead of speed for now....its MUCH more important to set your boat up to be CONSISTENT in racing conditions than to be a ballastic missle at least for now..and by all means..HAVE FUN!!

 

[Tom Foley]

Harold, what Bill Britton said is right on the money! You might be pleasantly surprised at how well you might do if you just concentrate on FINISHING 6 laps and having fun instead of speed for now....its MUCH more important to set your boat up to be CONSISTENT in racing conditions than to be a ballastic missle at least for now..and by all means..HAVE FUN!!

SPEED and HANDLING MUST HAVE BOTH ..winning by attrition ......NOT !!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Harold Duncan]

When I say "stock" I mean the motors we have are "stock". We have a .005 head shim in them. No mods to the inside of the motor. We have not ran in any IMPBA or NAMBA races yet, but hope to soon. We bought the boat off ebay it came with 2 complete 3.5 K&B's. From what we can tell after going throught the motors after running them and replacing the bearings in them is that they are stock from the factory, out of the box. We are running them with gold carb's, and 50% fuel.

I would like to know if there are any gains in performance gains to be had with K&B's can style pipe.

 

[HTV Boats]

Harold,

The answer to your question is yes in the hands of someone like Primo or Britton a Dumas could hit mid 40's and even low 50's on flat water in a straight line. As for racing you won't see any of the top racers run one. Go out have fun and within a season of actual races you'll learn what you need to know. Everyone is being nice and we don't want to offend anyone that is interested in racing. What you have is no longer competative for racing and if you wan't to save a lot of time, aggrivation and money in the long run get a different hull. There will be 10 guys here telling you what is the best but the Vision-Sniper-Lynx-and HTB are all capable of winning a major race. If you limit HP to "stock" add the VS-1 to the list. Don't take offense but I generally tell people what they need to hear not what they want to hear. Hope to see you at the races and we all will pitch in and help you go faster. Speed helps but lap times win heats.

If you need info on K&B listen to James Clegg (topfuel443) and or Robin Stevins (moparbarn) the real resident experts on here.

Mic

 

[Harold Duncan]

We have been told that the Dumas boat isn't competitve, and we under stand that it is an older hull, but no one has been able to tells us why the boat dosen't cut it anymore. Everyone we've met so far in the boating comunity has been very nice, helpful, and has taken the time to talk to us and answer every question we've asked eihter in person or on this site. As i said on a different post we don't want to make anyone mad or disrespect anyone. Were just trying to find out if we are in the ball park of maybe being competitive with what we have.

Are Leecraft boats competative any more? My nephew bought one a few weeks ago. It was a used boat there was a post on here about it the guy had a red one and a black one. My nephew bought the black one. We have plans of going to it once we tear the dumas up.

Again thanks for the help from everyone. We have made more progess with our boat since getting on this site a few weeks ago than we had all summer trying to do it on our on.

 

[HTV Boats]

When you ask why a particular hull doesn't work it is hard to give a pinpoint answer. Kinda like a guy bringing on old front engine racecar to Indy and asking why it wont work. Half the guys here have never owned or seen a Dumas run. From what I remember that hull was too small. That and being lite it became an airplane easily. Just adding weight without redoing the sponsons and tunnel depth isn't going to solve it. I know a few guys lengthened the sponsons and they worked better but technology moved ahead faster than the glue would set. The Lee Craft depending on the model has potential but at the end of the day the newer hulls are going to win out hands down. The bargans on E-bay and sometimes here are mostly obsolete stuff otherwise they would be snapped up. See how long a Lynx lasts in good condition. A real one won't make it to E-bay. 21 tunnel is one of the hardest classes to compete in. Motors make more power than boats will handle. There is not a bulletproof 55+ heatrace boat made. 50-55 if you know your boat well. Yet many guys are aproaching and exceeding 60 with a 21. Going that fast and finishing heats are 2 different things. Not sure where you live but know there must be guys running in your local area that will help you out.

Mic

 

[Robert Elder]

Are you having fun with the Hot Shot?

A couple of months ago I traded a guy for a partially finished Prather tunnel with a K&B 3.5cc outboard on it. Most of my boats are FE and quite a bit faster but I am really enjoying working on this one. Props, engine height, angle, fuel, plugs...there are just so many variables to work with. I am working on fitting an Irwin J pipe on the motor now (with the help of a number of the members here on IW). It is great to just top up the fuel and toss her back in again. I play race with two of the other guys' FE tunnels and hope to get more competitive with them but that's all this boat will ever be. Now, that doesn't mean I can't race. I actually expect to start to race a number of classes next year but that will be for the fun and experience of them. Finishing heats and better than the last time are my goals. I might actually win some with my FE Hydro and FE Mono but I doubt that we'll see enough nitro tunnels up here to pull together a class. It is more likely that we'll mix FE and Nitro just for fun.

To answer your question about why the older boats (your Hot Shot or my Prather) aren't competitive anymore comes down to the developments made to both power plants and hulls. You can see this yourself as you change motor height or props or whatever. This stuff makes a huge difference to how fast it goes and how well it handles. Now imagine the variables with changing the hull width, sponson angles etc. Look at the RPM and HP ratings for CMB, Rossi, Nova Rossi etc powerheads. I figure if I decided to take may radio gear out of this boat and wanted to put a competitive boat on the water it would take $1500+ and a bunch of time to get there, (assuming I improve enough as a driver to match the boat's capabilities).

Not sure what you paid for your Hot Shot but I traded an old helicopter for mine and just had to put some radio gear in the boat, get fuel, a starter etc. Way less money and I have a really cool "Old School" tunnel to run at the pond with the guys.

 

[Harold Duncan]

Mic,

I agree with you on the fact that all out top speed will not win a race, and when it comes down to it that fastest rarely win a race. That is true for all motor sports. Nascar makes a big deal when someone wins from the pole. My brother and I have spent 20+ years racing go-karts at the highest levels of the sport. Most of those 20yrs. have been spent building some of the baddest Briggs&Straton Flat-head engines out there. There haven't been many times that we have been the fastest at the track, but we've won a whole lot of races, and continue to today. We went to our first r/c boat race a few weeks ago in Charleston, SC the Fall Nationals I think. We noticed in most of the races the guy that lead the first 3 laps hardly ever made it to the finish line. We saw guys with a half to three quarter lap lead still running flat out with a lap to go crash. With a boat that was clearly that much faster than the field. As racers that didn't look like smart racing to us.LOL. We've spent all summer playing with the boat we have, and most of the time we've spent just trying to get the thing started and get it to run some what consistant. Only in the last two weeks have we got the boat starting good, time and time again, without having to play with the needle run after run. Yesterday was our firtst trip to the pond where we could play with the set up; CG, Motor height, trim angle ect. and realy notice a difference. We took a prop,x640, we had not run before and tried 5-10 different setups changing one thing at a time. We also had our radar gun with us so we could get the only results we really could. Which was speed. We don't have a club here in Brunswick, Ga. We don't know how to set up a track in a pond like what you would race on. So we really cant rely on lap times yet to see if we have gained or loss anything in the hadeling of the boat. As far as guys around here to get info from. Theres a club in Savanah, Mark Poole, we have talked to him some. there is a club in Valdosta, Ga, we have talked to some guys there as well. Both are over an hour from where we live. All we have been told is what the boat and the motor can't do, and most of what people have told us it cant do we have gotten it some how to do it. We are loving this sport and cant get enough of it. Thanks for the help and we do plan on getting to a few races next season.

 

[SayMikey]

Mic,

I agree with you on the fact that all out top speed will not win a race, and when it comes down to it that fastest rarely win a race. That is true for all motor sports. Nascar makes a big deal when someone wins from the pole. My brother and I have spent 20+ years racing go-karts at the highest levels of the sport. Most of those 20yrs. have been spent building some of the baddest Briggs&Straton Flat-head engines out there. There haven't been many times that we have been the fastest at the track, but we've won a whole lot of races, and continue to today. We went to our first r/c boat race a few weeks ago in Charleston, SC the Fall Nationals I think. We noticed in most of the races the guy that lead the first 3 laps hardly ever made it to the finish line. We saw guys with a half to three quarter lap lead still running flat out with a lap to go crash. With a boat that was clearly that much faster than the field. As racers that didn't look like smart racing to us.LOL. We've spent all summer playing with the boat we have, and most of the time we've spent just trying to get the thing started and get it to run some what consistant. Only in the last two weeks have we got the boat starting good, time and time again, without having to play with the needle run after run. Yesterday was our firtst trip to the pond where we could play with the set up; CG, Motor height, trim angle ect. and realy notice a difference. We took a prop,x640, we had not run before and tried 5-10 different setups changing one thing at a time. We also had our radar gun with us so we could get the only results we really could. Which was speed. We don't have a club here in Brunswick, Ga. We don't know how to set up a track in a pond like what you would race on. So we really cant rely on lap times yet to see if we have gained or loss anything in the hadeling of the boat. As far as guys around here to get info from. Theres a club in Savanah, Mark Poole, we have talked to him some. there is a club in Valdosta, Ga, we have talked to some guys there as well. Both are over an hour from where we live. All we have been told is what the boat and the motor can't do, and most of what people have told us it cant do we have gotten it some how to do it. We are loving this sport and cant get enough of it. Thanks for the help and we do plan on getting to a few races next season.

Harold send the motor to Rod Geraghty MONEY WELL SPENT a turbo crank and a little massage and you will be happier. Do you have the gold head ss? I have a parts motor i bought and it has a can your welcome to it. The head was trashed by the last owner but i think the rest is good Pm me your address if you want it. I also have Bill Zubers old Lee Craft I can donate that for the shipping cost. A good k/b on a Leecraft will go 40 wil no problem

 

[topfuel443]

Harold, now that you mention it, I think I spoke to you guys right as everyone was leaving the Charleston race. I was the guy in the Jeep with the tent on top, and on the microphone for a portion of the race. I know you are not really close to me, but if you and your crew want to make a trip up to Atlanta one weekend, I will be glad to spend all day with you helping with boat set-up, props, or whatever. Just throwing it out there, most of the guys replying here have been racing for MANY years (and all were at the Charleston race), and are steering you in the right direction. Lots of knowledge on this board, but sometimes its easier to do than say, hence my offer for real pond time if you want it.

Better yet, load up your boats and come to Brandon Florida with us next month... No better way to learn than to do!

~James

 

[TUNLBOTR]

Harold, now that you mention it, I think I spoke to you guys right as everyone was leaving the Charleston race. I was the guy in the Jeep with the tent on top, and on the microphone for a portion of the race. I know you are not really close to me, but if you and your crew want to make a trip up to Atlanta one weekend, I will be glad to spend all day with you helping with boat set-up, props, or whatever. Just throwing it out there, most of the guys replying here have been racing for MANY years (and all were at the Charleston race), and are steering you in the right direction. Lots of knowledge on this board, but sometimes its easier to do than say, hence my offer for real pond time if you want it.

Better yet, load up your boats and come to Brandon Florida with us next month... No better way to learn than to do!

~James

Like Gabe said, hope you and William can make it down to the Brandon race, Tunnels currently are the largest 2 classes registered for the race (20 stock and 20 mod) and we are ALL willing to help you. On hand will be the National Outboard Director, World Champions, multi time US-1 National Champion winners and all the passion of a huge bunch of die hard friends and racers. The family is big, Charleston and Brandon have a lot in common, and we believe in Fostering Model Boating. Helping you get there makes it fun, and you can help someone else, and so on.....

Randy

 

[HTV JAY]

Harold:

I would ask what are your goals in terms in racing?

The problem is if you're running in the South East the competition you're going to see, even at local races, is going to be very competitive on a national level. You're not going to have 1 or 2 very fast people but a whole pack of them. When you have a pack of really fast people odds are one of the fast boats is going to have a good day. Because of the competition you face having an outdate hull is going to make getting into this hobby that much harder. In the RC boat world 20 tunnel ranks among one of the hardest classes there is. So if you plan on being satisfied with running races to make laps the boat you have is fine. If you're expecting to be competitive unfortunately the boat you have is going to be at a disadvantage. In all racing equipment that was good 30 years ago rarely stays at the top of the game as technology advances. If you're new to the sport and want to win it is best to look at the guys doing well, copy them, and then make changes. Also another problem with the boat is that it hasn't been a popular boat in a long time, so there aren't enough guys out there to help you set it up. Lots of help if you're running a Lynx, Hopper, Vision, Sniper, or VS-1. So again if you're goal is to race competitively you're going to need modern technology. If you like playing on the pond or lake you're fine, with today's motors you'll get respectable speeds 40 +. Today's boats have better sponson angles, more length, and better use of aerodynamics, making them better heat racing boats.

Jay H

 

[moparbarn]

harold, yes, a can style muffler will liven up your k&b. it will work best with the 'pipe timing' piston & sleeve. and, yes, a leecraft can still be competetive. i finished 5th in b mod tunnel at this year's tunnel championships - running a k&b B) . not a win, but not too shabby for a 10 or 12 year old hull that i had never even had on the water until the race, running against all the best with their latest & greatest...... haven't forgotten your pm, just been very busy with my son's wedding coming up on saturday.

 

[TUNLBOTR]

harold, yes, a can style muffler will liven up your k&b. it will work best with the 'pipe timing' piston & sleeve. and, yes, a leecraft can still be competetive. i finished 5th in b mod tunnel at this year's tunnel championships - running a k&b B) . not a win, but not too shabby for a 10 or 12 year old hull that i had never even had on the water until the race, running against all the best with their latest & greatest...... haven't forgotten your pm, just been very busy with my son's wedding coming up on saturday.

Robin,

We missed ya at the FallNats, I have a parts box to give you, P/sleeves and cases, etc.....Is Barn JR the one gittin hitched?