"Heat Race" speeds

[Andy Brown]

I know this post will not be well received by some......but.....All of these posts about hitting 90 and better in "heat race" trim as though it is something new have me thinking that maybe some of you think this is a new development. I remember in 1996 I radared Jeff Lutz's single engine F hydro IN ACTUAL HEAT RACES well into the 90's. I remember him winning F hydro at the Slidell races by winning SIX races in a row with perfect scores. That is TWENTY FOUR F-Hydro first place finishes in a row!!! In terms of a "heat race trim" boat running alone at a practice pond, I will not even post the speeds I have radared Jeff's boats at time and time again. Art Mc Means and Andy Brown have also run 90 in actual heat races over 15 years ago. This is in no way meant to take away from the hard work put in by those running those speeds at practice ponds today, that is a great accomplishment. I just wanted to let you know that some racers have been running well over 90 IN HEAT RACES for almost two decades.

Eric, over the last few years I have been using the truthalizer at just about every race i attend to check the end of straightaway and corner exit speeds during all classes and most heats, to date there has been only 1 boat to run over 80, actually ran 82 was T Foleys twin during a twin race and 1 twin ran 85 in open water last year. I have most of the data in my little black book of races from stock .21 outboards thru all the nito classes and gas,, I looked back in the book thyu last year and found a gas twin running alone in open water that came from the far side at riverview, "longgest side" that had one pass of 83. At the recent race in Brandon, most of the boaters that were interested in the speeds I was getting on the truthalizer were guessing way high on the speeds compared to the actual speeds I would show them.

JM2CW

dick

I radared Toms' twin at the Brandon race at 89 mph during a heat with my calibrated stalker pro.

I love the "Truthalizer"! Tom's twin has been smokin' fast in the last couple of races!

 

[hugh hargett]

radar guns can be off too

 

[Andy Brown]

radar guns can be off too

Eric's is not.

 

[JeremyEdge]

Brandon was a fun fast race,I can't wait to race with all that attended that race again.I learn at every race I go too and I am always looking forward to the next.

 

[dwilfong]

here are some of the props I have tested to get these speeds and stick on the buoys.

Still searching for the magic bullet.

David

 

[hugh hargett]

Looks like you broke a few with that beast motor.

 

[Jeff Lutz]

I know this post will not be well received by some......but.....All of these posts about hitting 90 and better in "heat race" trim as though it is something new have me thinking that maybe some of you think this is a new development. I remember in 1996 I radared Jeff Lutz's single engine F hydro IN ACTUAL HEAT RACES well into the 90's. I remember him winning F hydro at the Slidell races by winning SIX races in a row with perfect scores. That is TWENTY FOUR F-Hydro first place finishes in a row!!! In terms of a "heat race trim" boat running alone at a practice pond, I will not even post the speeds I have radared Jeff's boats at time and time again. Art Mc Means and Andy Brown have also run 90 in actual heat races over 15 years ago. This is in no way meant to take away from the hard work put in by those running those speeds at practice ponds today, that is a great accomplishment. I just wanted to let you know that some racers have been running well over 90 IN HEAT RACES for almost two decades.

Eric, over the last few years I have been using the truthalizer at just about every race i attend to check the end of straightaway and corner exit speeds during all classes and most heats, to date there has been only 1 boat to run over 80, actually ran 82 was T Foleys twin during a twin race and 1 twin ran 85 in open water last year. I have most of the data in my little black book of races from stock .21 outboards thru all the nito classes and gas,, I looked back in the book thyu last year and found a gas twin running alone in open water that came from the far side at riverview, "longgest side" that had one pass of 83. At the recent race in Brandon, most of the boaters that were interested in the speeds I was getting on the truthalizer were guessing way high on the speeds compared to the actual speeds I would show them.

JM2CW

dick

Dick, Well I guess alot of guys are not running these internet speeds. But in a heat race its hard to get a good straight shot at a boat with a radar gun. But, good speeds are coming more and more with todays stuff making competition good. I remember Atlanta years ago John Browns picco 67 sg was radared 86 mph in the race in BAD water.(He passed a couple of guys on the outside lane). ----------1992------------ I watched Andy stick some 2167's on Manard Cagle's twin and it was radared 92 mph heat race trim. Andy brought a twin to Slidell years ago, he said him and Donna had it at the I 75 pond going 93 mph, he pulled the pipes for the race still running high 80's. Joe Ingrao 2001 nats had a twin 93 mph. 2001 Nats I brought a friends twin with tired piston and sleeves had to back the 1667's to 5.5" cup it still ran 87 mph heat trim, guess what ( You pitted for me and said God this boats fast! ) Remember? 2002 Eric Canto Slidell had a twin running 88-91 easy, he was in a heat and came up on Ernie's John Deere, Eric said "I'm going to pass him on the outside", "I said take him now", Eric passed Ernie off bouy 6 like he was draggin a cedar log. I did come to Slidell a couple of times with 90+ singles, back then the pistons did not have the geometry of today and I could only do those speeds for about 6-8 gallons of fuel. After that, had to back them off. Dick, you yourself had a little 80 sg with a k90 and a h-50 run 90 heat trim.(Correct me if I'm wrong I thought thats what you said,I never saw the boat).I could keep going on and on....

 

[JS_Racing]

I know this post will not be well received by some......but.....All of these posts about hitting 90 and better in "heat race" trim as though it is something new have me thinking that maybe some of you think this is a new development. I remember in 1996 I radared Jeff Lutz's single engine F hydro IN ACTUAL HEAT RACES well into the 90's. I remember him winning F hydro at the Slidell races by winning SIX races in a row with perfect scores. That is TWENTY FOUR F-Hydro first place finishes in a row!!! In terms of a "heat race trim" boat running alone at a practice pond, I will not even post the speeds I have radared Jeff's boats at time and time again. Art Mc Means and Andy Brown have also run 90 in actual heat races over 15 years ago. This is in no way meant to take away from the hard work put in by those running those speeds at practice ponds today, that is a great accomplishment. I just wanted to let you know that some racers have been running well over 90 IN HEAT RACES for almost two decades.

Eric i agree 100% with what you say, and by no means do we think this is something of a NEW accomplishment..But heres whats is amazing..
1)the 90mph stalker speed are done with Bone stock motors with 11 1/4 pipes length(very conservative)

2)this is the 3rd weekend this boat has hit the water

3)and most important is from back in the days as compared to now the twins are much more reliable, we are able to crawl at speeds down to 30mph and

excellerate to near 90 almost instantly

Ok Brett, Alberts twin is running great, but I'm going to poke fun a bit....and point out some truths!

1)the 90mph stalker speed are done with Bone stock motors with 11 1/4 pipes length(very conservative)

Is this statement to point out an "amazing" boat design or "amazing" engines/pipes/props?

If it's engines/pipes....

It only took CMB 20 years to figure out (with lots of help) how to build an engine that would run 90mph out of the box.... Oh, but doesn't Albert have those great Zoom carbs on those 80's? I don't think Charles would be happy to think that his carbs have not contributed to some extra power? Nice 11 1/4 pipe design CMB has there too! Years ago everyone was crying about HAVING to run muffled pipes and loosing power. I'm glad CMB realized my muffled pipe disign was so good that they decided to manufacture them and put their name on them. There is not one CMB designed pipe that would get that twin to 90mph!

If it is the boat that is "amazing"? .....well Stu has a good boat design and Albert did a fantastic job building his beautiful Carbon/ composit boat. I am very impressed with Alberts boat. I like the work and craftsmanship he put into it a lot.... no matter how good the engines are a boat won't run 90mph without being well built. Kudo's to Albert and Stu for that.

2)this is the 3rd weekend this boat has hit the water.

I guess you don't count WEEKDAYS as time in the water?

3)and most important is from back in the days as compared to now the twins are much more reliable, we are able to crawl at speeds down to 30mph and

excellerate to near 90 almost instantly.

"more reliable" Ummmm ...didn't I just see Albert's twin loose an engine while making those 90 mph passes? And I noticed as did Stan Simpson.....looks like the boat had a pulling issue with those "exotic 1667''s. Not sure I'd call that good heat race trim. Oh! and Iv'e never seem Albert's twin run 30mph except for coming into the pits when the throttles are shutting down! Those slow portions of the run in the video are more like 50-60 mph.

I will say....as I know you guys have been trying for a long time to hit 90 mph with your twins...I'm glad you finally achieved your goal. Not really "amazing" though! Just a matter of working at it and paying attention to detail. Kudo's!!!

Some guys are now hitting on 100 mph in heat trim!...the next goal for many!

SOME HISTORY from when were taking your sabbatical from r/c boating Brett.

2000 IMPBA Internats in Iowa.

F HYRDO SAW Time trials.

1st place-Jason Pas Twin 90 SG/K-90's 95mph pass

2nd place- John Brown Twin 80 SGX-MAC 84's 93mph pass

3rd place -Bob Bjorkman Twin 80 SGX- MAC 84's 89mph pass

All three boats also finished well in Heat Racing.

First batch MAC 84's only weeks off the drawing board and the production line.

AMAZING? I don't know?

Correction:

1st place-Jason Pas Twin 90 SG/MAC 84's 95mph pass

I remember the 95 Internats in Bartow, FL, we were testing our heat racing setup T-90 Eagle in open water and Ron Zaker Jr. had his radar gun out - he turns to me and shows me the reading on the gun "89.9 Mph"!!! And that was with the old CMB 90 EVO 1's!!!

 

[Joe Warren]

A lot of Races are being won today with Big Block Engines that require very little modification & Big Block Props that stay hooked up in the Race Chop. Most clubs are racing Nitro/Gas & Electric. This makes for a Lot of classes for the weekend and they can only run so many heats. This forces 6/7/8 boats in a heat... Nowdays Prop Slippage Differences are Huge During REAL Race time due the Increased Race chop....

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well this has been an enjoyable read for sure. As other have pointed out 90+ with a twin "in heat race trim" is not new, my old regular Roadrunner (non Extreme) with a pair of Tom Grannis massaged Picco 80 EXR's did it repeatedly back '98. That boat was a tank but the set up and motor/pipe/prop combo all came together. While it's always nice to have the power to run over 90 in true heat race trim, after a lap or two of a full heat of big block twins NOBODY is going that fast consistently. Radar gun speeds are nice but what matters most to me is where you are at the end of the last lap. .

 

[Joe Warren]

I agree todays Hydros are less Critical and can run Big Speeds!! Makes it much easier for the average guy to buy the parts and assemble & Go to a race & Get Results!! Wooden boat kits are still hard to obtain & the hydro classes could flourish if this gets better??

 

[Mark Bullard]

I have had some very fast boats over the years. I have never seen a twin that is claimed to be a 90 mph boat in heat racing trim running by itself do any good in a heat race. What I have seen over the years is the boat may well be running 90 but they are 100 feet off the bouys and can not get any closer without loading the motors up. So if they have been running 90 mph I must be running a 100 mph when I went by them. LOL

 

[Al Hobbs]

Years ago, Louis Durand said something to me that I will not forget. If the boat is built right, it can go fast with even an old, weak engine. But, if the boat is not built right, it can't go fast with even the very best engines. First make certain to set your boat up properly.

Some things never change.

 

[Joe Warren]

Only ever see one Twin that could have raced 100mph in Slidell. Andy brought it to the race & i believe it belonged to Virgil erickerson. Made many upper 90 MPH passes 97-98mph many times with a pair of .630 carbs on MAC84`s and some pitched up V967 props!!!!! it was a Animal to keep it in the Pond!! Most seasoned boaters dont drag out a radar gun unless he already knows it is well over 80 mph........ Maybe we need to find out how to heat race those V967`s

 

[JeremyEdge]

V967's are some pretty stout props.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Only ever see one Twin that could have raced 100mph in Slidell. Andy brought it to the race & i believe it belonged to Virgil erickerson. Made many upper 90 MPH passes 97-98mph many times with a pair of .630 carbs on MAC84`s and some pitched up V967 props!!!!! it was a Animal to keep it in the Pond!! Most seasoned boaters dont drag out a radar gun unless he already knows it is well over 80 mph........ Maybe we need to find out how to heat race those V967`s

Joe we did a good bit of testing with the V967's a while back and they are fast but don't stay hooked up well in heat race water and seemed to be rather unpredictable in the corners. :blink:

 

[Joe Warren]

Only ever see one Twin that could have raced 100mph in Slidell. Andy brought it to the race & i believe it belonged to Virgil erickerson. Made many upper 90 MPH passes 97-98mph many times with a pair of .630 carbs on MAC84`s and some pitched up V967 props!!!!! it was a Animal to keep it in the Pond!! Most seasoned boaters dont drag out a radar gun unless he already knows it is well over 80 mph........ Maybe we need to find out how to heat race those V967`s

Joe we did a good bit of testing with the V967's a while back and they are fast but don't stay hooked up well in heat race water and seemed to be rather unpredictable in the corners. :blink:

I think they would work best on a hydro that has rear sponsons and would help hold them up in the corners. if you let them drop down in the corners and wet up......You better release early off the exit buoy and it will prop walk 4-5-6 lanes down the front. Some of the fastest passes to date I have seen and held a radar gun on were on V-967 props every time. Todays Engines can heat race yesterdays SAW props with a few prop mods........ I have a pair of 2267s i`am waiting to test myself........

 

[DickJones]

I know this post will not be well received by some......but.....All of these posts about hitting 90 and better in "heat race" trim as though it is something new have me thinking that maybe some of you think this is a new development. I remember in 1996 I radared Jeff Lutz's single engine F hydro IN ACTUAL HEAT RACES well into the 90's. I remember him winning F hydro at the Slidell races by winning SIX races in a row with perfect scores. That is TWENTY FOUR F-Hydro first place finishes in a row!!! In terms of a "heat race trim" boat running alone at a practice pond, I will not even post the speeds I have radared Jeff's boats at time and time again. Art Mc Means and Andy Brown have also run 90 in actual heat races over 15 years ago. This is in no way meant to take away from the hard work put in by those running those speeds at practice ponds today, that is a great accomplishment. I just wanted to let you know that some racers have been running well over 90 IN HEAT RACES for almost two decades.

Eric, over the last few years I have been using the truthalizer at just about every race i attend to check the end of straightaway and corner exit speeds during all classes and most heats, to date there has been only 1 boat to run over 80, actually ran 82 was T Foleys twin during a twin race and 1 twin ran 85 in open water last year. I have most of the data in my little black book of races from stock .21 outboards thru all the nito classes and gas,, I looked back in the book thyu last year and found a gas twin running alone in open water that came from the far side at riverview, "longgest side" that had one pass of 83. At the recent race in Brandon, most of the boaters that were interested in the speeds I was getting on the truthalizer were guessing way high on the speeds compared to the actual speeds I would show them.

JM2CW

dick

Dick, Well I guess alot of guys are not running these internet speeds. But in a heat race its hard to get a good straight shot at a boat with a radar gun. But, good speeds are coming more and more with todays stuff making competition good. I remember Atlanta years ago John Browns picco 67 sg was radared 86 mph in the race in BAD water.(He passed a couple of guys on the outside lane). ----------1992------------ I watched Andy stick some 2167's on Manard Cagle's twin and it was radared 92 mph heat race trim. Andy brought a twin to Slidell years ago, he said him and Donna had it at the I 75 pond going 93 mph, he pulled the pipes for the race still running high 80's. Joe Ingrao 2001 nats had a twin 93 mph. 2001 Nats I brought a friends twin with tired piston and sleeves had to back the 1667's to 5.5" cup it still ran 87 mph heat trim, guess what ( You pitted for me and said God this boats fast! ) Remember? 2002 Eric Canto Slidell had a twin running 88-91 easy, he was in a heat and came up on Ernie's John Deere, Eric said "I'm going to pass him on the outside", "I said take him now", Eric passed Ernie off bouy 6 like he was draggin a cedar log. I did come to Slidell a couple of times with 90+ singles, back then the pistons did not have the geometry of today and I could only do those speeds for about 6-8 gallons of fuel. After that, had to back them off. Dick, you yourself had a little 80 sg with a k90 and a h-50 run 90 heat trim.(Correct me if I'm wrong I thought thats what you said,I never saw the boat).I could keep going on and on....

Jeff

I just use the gun during the heat racing for real heat racing speeds, mostly rough water racing numbers, yes i ran 90 in open water with a 90 eagle and k90 motor in standard heat trim at the corning NY internats before the time trials however it was not a heat raceable boat with that prop, my point is during open water or running in lane 12 on a lake by yourself a boater has alot more variables to reach some good speed, but those speeds will be less during heat racing with more boats on the water and the water roughed up, I remeber watching A brown runing a 127 MPH pass with a pretty stock Mac .84 and .620 carb and .150 spray bar however it would not have stayed on the water 5 seconds in a heat race.

dick

 

[Andy Brown]

I know this post will not be well received by some......but.....All of these posts about hitting 90 and better in "heat race" trim as though it is something new have me thinking that maybe some of you think this is a new development. I remember in 1996 I radared Jeff Lutz's single engine F hydro IN ACTUAL HEAT RACES well into the 90's. I remember him winning F hydro at the Slidell races by winning SIX races in a row with perfect scores. That is TWENTY FOUR F-Hydro first place finishes in a row!!! In terms of a "heat race trim" boat running alone at a practice pond, I will not even post the speeds I have radared Jeff's boats at time and time again. Art Mc Means and Andy Brown have also run 90 in actual heat races over 15 years ago. This is in no way meant to take away from the hard work put in by those running those speeds at practice ponds today, that is a great accomplishment. I just wanted to let you know that some racers have been running well over 90 IN HEAT RACES for almost two decades.

Eric i agree 100% with what you say, and by no means do we think this is something of a NEW accomplishment..But heres whats is amazing..
1)the 90mph stalker speed are done with Bone stock motors with 11 1/4 pipes length(very conservative)

2)this is the 3rd weekend this boat has hit the water

3)and most important is from back in the days as compared to now the twins are much more reliable, we are able to crawl at speeds down to 30mph and

excellerate to near 90 almost instantly

Ok Brett, Alberts twin is running great, but I'm going to poke fun a bit....and point out some truths!

1)the 90mph stalker speed are done with Bone stock motors with 11 1/4 pipes length(very conservative)

Is this statement to point out an "amazing" boat design or "amazing" engines/pipes/props?

If it's engines/pipes....

It only took CMB 20 years to figure out (with lots of help) how to build an engine that would run 90mph out of the box.... Oh, but doesn't Albert have those great Zoom carbs on those 80's? I don't think Charles would be happy to think that his carbs have not contributed to some extra power? Nice 11 1/4 pipe design CMB has there too! Years ago everyone was crying about HAVING to run muffled pipes and loosing power. I'm glad CMB realized my muffled pipe disign was so good that they decided to manufacture them and put their name on them. There is not one CMB designed pipe that would get that twin to 90mph!

If it is the boat that is "amazing"? .....well Stu has a good boat design and Albert did a fantastic job building his beautiful Carbon/ composit boat. I am very impressed with Alberts boat. I like the work and craftsmanship he put into it a lot.... no matter how good the engines are a boat won't run 90mph without being well built. Kudo's to Albert and Stu for that.

2)this is the 3rd weekend this boat has hit the water.

I guess you don't count WEEKDAYS as time in the water?

3)and most important is from back in the days as compared to now the twins are much more reliable, we are able to crawl at speeds down to 30mph and

excellerate to near 90 almost instantly.

"more reliable" Ummmm ...didn't I just see Albert's twin loose an engine while making those 90 mph passes? And I noticed as did Stan Simpson.....looks like the boat had a pulling issue with those "exotic 1667''s. Not sure I'd call that good heat race trim. Oh! and Iv'e never seem Albert's twin run 30mph except for coming into the pits when the throttles are shutting down! Those slow portions of the run in the video are more like 50-60 mph.

I will say....as I know you guys have been trying for a long time to hit 90 mph with your twins...I'm glad you finally achieved your goal. Not really "amazing" though! Just a matter of working at it and paying attention to detail. Kudo's!!!

Some guys are now hitting on 100 mph in heat trim!...the next goal for many!

SOME HISTORY from when were taking your sabbatical from r/c boating Brett.

2000 IMPBA Internats in Iowa.

F HYRDO SAW Time trials.

1st place-Jason Pas Twin 90 SG/K-90's 95mph pass

2nd place- John Brown Twin 80 SGX-MAC 84's 93mph pass

3rd place -Bob Bjorkman Twin 80 SGX- MAC 84's 89mph pass

All three boats also finished well in Heat Racing.

First batch MAC 84's only weeks off the drawing board and the production line.

AMAZING? I don't know?

Correction:

1st place-Jason Pas Twin 90 SG/MAC 84's 95mph pass

I remember the 95 Internats in Bartow, FL, we were testing our heat racing setup T-90 Eagle in open water and Ron Zaker Jr. had his radar gun out - he turns to me and shows me the reading on the gun "89.9 Mph"!!! And that was with the old CMB 90 EVO 1's!!!

Thanks for the correction about the MAC 84's Steve! Or Jason? And yes, I remember your 89.9 mph pass at the 1995 Bartow Internats. Was HOT and Humid there too!

You guys need to come out and race boats again. We are working on putting together a huge TWIN Nitro event for May/June 2013. Would be Awesome to have fifty 90 mph twins show up.

 

[JRXHydros]

Speed is for SAW & Oval Racing is for Engine Reliability & Points