Fuel mixing question

[tnrcboatracer]

I don't want to hijack the previous thread, so I have started my own.

I have about 5 gal of LB 625 I want to use to make up some fuel with. The question is, how much of this stuff is enopugh, without being too much. I will use it in 60-70% fuel, but due to the rare nature of this stuff, I don't want to put in too much and waste it. Any recommendations on the minimum amount that is still safe? Any recommendations on blending this to make it go further?

 

[Ken Retallick]

Jon, im using Neo oil, which is apparently LB625 from what we can work out.

I use 12% with 5% Castor, in all engine sizes. Noticed a big difference compared to another name brand oil..

Havent tried going to lower % as yet, but i see no reason why not. This stuff coats everything like you wouldnt believe

.01AU cents worth.

 

[El Zorro]

Jon,

I have used the Ucon LB 625 synthetic oil since 1968; first in controline model airplanes and then in my R/C boats starting in 1984. I mostly mixed my own fuel racing boats because I was particular about what I put into my engines. My mix for the .21 and .45 engines would consist of 65% nitromethane, 18% methanol, 14% Ucon LB 625, 2% castor oil and 1% Lubricin oil. The Lubricin is a top cylinder oil with some detergent thrown in. It was available from SIG Manufacturing Co. but is no longer in their catalog. My mix for the .67 and larger engines was 50% nitromethane, 30% methanol, 17% Ucon LB 625, 2% castor oil and 1% Lubricin oil.

If you are going to mix your own fuel, I would suggest that you use at least 2% castor oil in your mix with the Ucon. The castor is used to give you extra protection in case of any over lean conditions that sometimes occur ( read this to mean TOO MUCH HEAT in the engine! ). Your TOTAL oil content should be no less than 17% for engines .45 and smaller, and no less than 20% with engines .67 and larger. You can always go 3% less oil content for both of these mixes but the performance gains would be minimal and the risk of damaging an engine would be much greater. It is also a good idea to use a clean paint strainer when mixing fuels! Strain it AFTER it is mixed into a clean container.

I have used O'Donnell's fuel which has a superior lubricant in it and runs very well. Only "problem" with this fuel is that the oil residue will discolor some paints, etc. I never had this problem on my fiberglass/gelcoated hulls. The synthetic oils that are sold by Morgan Fuels seem to be popular with a lot of boaters in my area and in the Southeast. Still hard to beat the good 'ole Ucon, though..........

This is only my opinion on mixing fuels. I am quite sure there are many people out there who would have "better" ideas as to how to mix fuel, but the above information has been sucessful for me for many years.

Good Luck!

Dick Tyndall

 

[tnrcboatracer]

Thanks for the info. Would there be any benefit to mix the LB625 in a 50-50 mix with the Morgan fuel synthetic blend? If I target 16-18% oil, that would be 8-9% LB625, 2.4-2.7% castor, 5.6-6.3% Morgan synthetic oil, with a dash of CP07 additive for good measure. From what I recall reading a couple of years ago, LB625 was THE lubricant to use. Has it been superceded yet? :huh:

 

[Bob Finn]

The LB625 is good stuff, although I always preferred MA731. I for one would not pollute it with the Morgan stuff. Had terrible results with Morgan's blue oil. We typically mix 15% synthetic and 2-3% Blendzall Castor. Some folks run less oil in the 21's, but I haven't tried that. I like 50% nitro in the bigger engines and 65% in my 21's

 

[Don Ferrette]

I for one would not pollute it with the Morgan stuff. Had terrible results with Morgan's blue oil.

Pollute it?? I think not. One thing alot of people seen to forget is the advances in synthetic oils over the recent years. While Dick's 'traditional blends" may have been the ticket back in the '80's, today's synthetics offer far superior lubrication & protection. Why do you think you don't use synthetic oil to break in a ringed motor? Simple, synthetic oils are so slick compared to non synth oils that you'll never break in & seat the rings. With that being said one of the biggest mistakes people do when running all synthetic oil is using way too much. Like I mentioned in another thread about oil content if you use too much oil, especially synthetic, the balls will skid in the races as opposed to rolling & can actually accelerate bearing wear. This skidding acts just like a squeegee & you wind up with no oil between the ball & the race because it's all piled up in front of it, kinda like a plow. If you run synthetic oil 20% or more is simply too much, you'll do more harm than good. High oil content is an old school band aid to make up for the lack of protection in the older oils, just like adding castor. I know we've had these "friendly (& not so friendly) debates" about adding castor but to me it's another band aid approach from days gone by. I don't like castor because of what it does to the inside of an engine, leaving that nasty castor residue all over everything. Some people seem to think this "protects" things but I've seen just the opposite. That film flakes off & causes irregularities in wear surfaces. I will say that I've seen the addition of castor stretch the life of a worn motor a little longer & I would attribute that to the film build up. Because it burns so easily, castor also raises combustion chamber & exhaust temps which can accelerate detonation & cause couplers to fail sooner. Since I switched about 5 years ago to running the Cool Power 2 stoke racing kart oil (the blue stuff) & dropped my oil content to 12% in the 21's & 15% in everything else including my 90's bearing life has actually improved. Anyone who has attended one of our record trials can attest to how high we twist our record motors & we run 100% synthetic blue & haven't seen a bearing fail yet. I'd say how much, actually how little we use but most would think I wasn't telling the truth. When you run a high oil content you run less nitro & methanol, the stuff that's supposed to burn & make power. With less oil you are putting more "burnable stuff" into the motor which means more power but to run less oil you need the superior protection that the current day synthetics can offer. Recently I shared my particular "blend" for 21's with a rather well known model boater who was amazed at the difference it made, said his motors have never run that good. Perhaps he will read this thread & chime in. B)

 

[Bob Finn]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Don is right about advances in technology, etc. But, Morgan Blue is the worst oil I've run in the last 20 years. We trashed numerous engines trying to run that stuff. May have been one bad batch, but several of our club members were running it and burning down motors something terrible. We switched to MA 731 and some borrowed fuel at a race and stopped all the problems. I for one wouldn't run that stuff in my Lawn Boy. I like the old lawnmower to well. We are even seeing guys burning down Zenoahs on the Morgan oil. Shouldn't complain though, it sure is good for the repair business.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Too each his own Bob. What works for you & what works for me are obviously different.

 

[360modena]

Don,

I switched to Morgans five years ago. Never a problem and in fact it has increased the life of all my engines bearings. Cool Power! Hey, would you consider sharing your blend for the "21"? I promise I won't tell! lol.

Virgil Ericksen

 

[lohring]

We just finished testing a CMB 35 with 16:1 and 10:1 synthetic/castor oil mixes. The graph that shows the average of 2 or 3 runs is below. I'd say that more oil was probably better, especially at the higher rpms.

Lohring Miller

 

[Don Ferrette]

Don,

I switched to Morgans five years ago. Never a problem and in fact it has increased the life of all my engines bearings. Cool Power! Hey, would you consider sharing your blend for the "21"? I promise I won't tell! lol.

Virgil Ericksen

LOL!! I actually did list it in Jason's thread about 21 nitro levels- 70% & 12% Col Power blue synth. B)

We just finished testing a CMB 35 with 16:1 and 10:1 synthetic/castor oil mixes. The graph that shows the average of 2 or 3 runs is below. I'd say that more oil was probably better, especially at the higher rpms.

Lohring Miller

Take the castor out of the equation & run the tests again, just for grins. Also with this being a gasoline application with a much lower rpm band you are comparing apples to oranges as we've been talking about blends in nitro. I will say that my 260 Zen in my gas sport hydro has run it's best on 100% synthetic.

 

[Terry Keeley]

We just finished testing a CMB 35 with 16:1 and 10:1 synthetic/castor oil mixes. The graph that shows the average of 2 or 3 runs is below. I'd say that more oil was probably better, especially at the higher rpms.

Lohring Miller

Not trying to hi-jack this thread but just wondering how many pulls it takes to make a graph to 24K like that? It's an inertial dyno right?

Is 16:1=6.25% oil and 10:1=10%?

What do you make of that second peak at 22K?

 

[Brian Blazer]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Don is right about advances in technology, etc. But, Morgan Blue is the worst oil I've run in the last 20 years. We trashed numerous engines trying to run that stuff. May have been one bad batch, but several of our club members were running it and burning down motors something terrible. We switched to MA 731 and some borrowed fuel at a race and stopped all the problems. I for one wouldn't run that stuff in my Lawn Boy. I like the old lawnmower to well. We are even seeing guys burning down Zenoahs on the Morgan oil. Shouldn't complain though, it sure is good for the repair business.

I love Morgans 2-cycle blue. We have been using it for years with no failures in our zen's. It is recommended by M&D.

Brian

 

[Bob Finn]

Have to agree with Lohring, that 10oz of oil runs best in the Zenoahs. I think it actually helps the compression seal a bit. And it sure doesn't hurt the motors. On the nitro engines, less oil will make more power until you reach a point where it fails. Years ago, we set some NAMBA records running a special oil. We were running 6% jet turbine oil in our 65 Rossi. It sure was super sensitive to needle settings, and hard to race. We finally added some heavy UCON(1145LB I Think), and it became managable for heat racing. Wasn't lack of lube, it was just terrible to set the needle on the stuff. Very thin waterey stuff. We used to run 82% nitro in our speed engines in the 70's, with MA731 and propylene. That was the best oil I've found to protect an engine.

 

[Terry Keeley]

Have to agree with Lohring, that 10oz of oil runs best in the Zenoahs. I think it actually helps the compression seal a bit. And it sure doesn't hurt the motors. On the nitro engines, less oil will make more power until you reach a point where it fails. Years ago, we set some NAMBA records running a special oil. We were running 6% jet turbine oil in our 65 Rossi. It sure was super sensitive to needle settings, and hard to race. We finally added some heavy UCON(1145LB I Think), and it became managable for heat racing. Wasn't lack of lube, it was just terrible to set the needle on the stuff. Very thin waterey stuff. We used to run 82% nitro in our speed engines in the 70's, with MA731 and propylene. That was the best oil I've found to protect an engine.

Hey Bob:

How much prope and alky did you run in that mix?

 

[Bob Finn]

15% MA 731, 3% prop, 82% nitro. We learned never to run prop and methanol together. Big fire!!!!! Lots of the time we ran 18% oil, 72% nitro, and 10% prop. Very good running fuel, and easy to needle in the 29''s and 65's

 

[Terry Keeley]

15% MA 731, 3% prop, 82% nitro. We learned never to run prop and methanol together. Big fire!!!!! Lots of the time we ran 18% oil, 72% nitro, and 10% prop. Very good running fuel, and easy to needle in the 29''s and 65's

So you think it's better to run just the nitro and prop without any methanol, how come? I thought a little alchohol might help the nitro burn, no?

 

[Ken Retallick]

Because it burns so easily, castor also raises combustion chamber & exhaust temps which can accelerate detonation & cause couplers to fail sooner. Since I switched about 5 years ago to running the Cool Power 2 stoke racing kart oil (the blue stuff) & dropped my oil content to 12% in the 21's & 15% in everything else including

Don, i dont want to start any wars, but you better go and do some research on this. Synthetics

have a much lower ignition temp.

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Oh boy - here we go again! The 3rd Annual IW castor Vs synthetic boxing match!

In the Blue corner we have ........(Morgan's kart oil!),

&

In the Red corner we have........(Klotz BC175 racing castor)!

 

[Don Ferrette]

Don, i dont want to start any wars, but you better go and do some research on this. Synthetics

have a much lower ignition temp.

I've done the research, when heated castor always flashed off first. Ever look in the exhaust port of a motor that runs castor, what do you think all that black crusty sxxt is? I'm not going to get into another "debate" over castor, people are free to do what they want to, some folks are just stuck in the dark ages....... h34r: