Best set-up for best cornering speed

[Danny King]

It's a funny thing science.....It's always evolving! Lmao.

One of the greatest things about this hobby is; what works for some, doesn't work for others. That's why there is yours and mine...... Both the boats and opinions.

Let the ego stroking commence!

 

[Bradley Ward]

Sorry Don.................lost my head.............

That's what happens when you play with your wet noodle to much.

To Don and my fellow boaters,

It is very aggravating when you make a post that is hopefully useful to the boaters on here and someone tries to contradict you with only opinions, nothing even related to facts. I spent over a year and built several boats to try to find out what did not just work good on making a hydro turn but to make it turn at its best on every lap. This was 39 years ago and very little was known at the time about boat handling. I did a lot of research to try to learn and I try my very best to base my knowledge and understanding on these scientific facts and principles. You cannot rearrange physics to suit your application.

When you make this information available, then someone comes back and makes a post about the subject that has no scientific base whatsoever, it confuses the ones that do not know and are here to learn.

Sometimes it causes our emotions get the best of us.

I am through Mr. Don......

don't worry Charles i know who I'm listening to! Because my experience here is ZERO! And people like Newton and his law's can't be wrong☺

 

[dwilfong]

Well as far as me sharing what I have found to work for me I will still continue to do so.

If it hurts some ones ego well so be it really don't care one way or the other.

If some think thy can bully me into not sharing what I have learned from testing with my boat and listening to all opinions.

It will not happen.....................

If the point of this form is to promote RC boating. I don't think a "HOSTILE" environment is conducive to this.

 

[dwilfong]

If you are looking for "proof" of flexible turn fin working just look at a SGX turn fin.

Also take note of the boom tubes that also flex.

When testing this thin flexing turn fin. I also made it longer front to back making the pressure point larger on the fin.

I did a test buy putting a backer on the fin as I was under the impression that it needed to be stiffer.

I did this at a race in west palm beach. Well the boat was very dartey and not controllable as I would like.

Those watching me run the boat asked what happened to the boat it was so obvious.

That was a small pond to say the least as those that have run there know.

Well I put the boat back to the original set up with out the backer and took 1st place for the weekend.

The next step was the rudder. I had a problem the boat was FAST. When coming in to a corner at full tilt and letting off the throttle it would stop turning. No mater what I did it would just not turn if you let off the throttle if you ran in the corner fast.

Marty and many there at the race witnessed this at one race in Brandon first hand. The boat was smoking fast but was unpredictable in the corners if you had to throttle down.

Hence the large rudder idea. Steve wood was able to make me a very large rudder at my request. After installing this on the boat it was like night and day.

So this is what I have done to get my boat to drive as I like it.

This may not work on a different style boat or a marginally fast boat may not need this to run.

But on a FAST SGX with my driving style this is what has worked for me.

 

[moparbarn]

Key words here "with my driving style"!! That is why there so many "good" setups for any single boat. One size doesn't fit all, IMHO. It's all useful info, just depends on what part of it works for YOU.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Sorry Don.................lost my head.............

That's what happens when you play with your wet noodle to much.

To Don and my fellow boaters,It is very aggravating when you make a post that is hopefully useful to the boaters on here and someone tries to contradict you with only opinions, nothing even related to facts. I spent over a year and built several boats to try to find out what did not just work good on making a hydro turn but to make it turn at its best on every lap. This was 39 years ago and very little was known at the time about boat handling. I did a lot of research to try to learn and I try my very best to base my knowledge and understanding on these scientific facts and principles. You cannot rearrange physics to suit your application.

When you make this information available, then someone comes back and makes a post about the subject that has no scientific base whatsoever, it confuses the ones that do not know and are here to learn.

Sometimes it causes our emotions get the best of us.

I am through Mr. Don......

I appreciate your contribution. While I still haven't absorbed all that you have shared my understanding of small pieces of it I was able to help my dad improve the handling of a Gas Rigger he scratch built. So thank you. In regards to your scientific research I think it would be scientifically prudent to look into what is said to be working for others and help us understand what makes it work or partially work. Isn't that part of science. Thanks again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stan simpson iv]

WOW guy's...these are little toy boats. Not any one person knows everything there is to know about our little boats. Be it motors,hull design,props,etc .That is what makes it a challenge for my dad and me,and I am sure for everyone else who races these boats. Why do we need to say there is only one person who knows it all? I like it when people think out the box,be it by personal trial and error ,or be scientific theory. Some people have dyno's,some have cad cam design on their computer's. I have my dad and my crazy ideas. Most do not work but you can not stop trying things,20 ideas might not work but if you keep trying you will find something that will change peoples direction. JMO As you were...

P.S. I love Big boats,and Big turn fins. (and H.P.)

 

[Bradley Ward]

Who was the guy that run the first rope up Mt Everest? Probably the guy that sat and thought about how to do it properly! He's most probably dead now! But i bet he forgot more about climbing that half these young! Big talking! Little knowledge! All talk no action types!! Whats the old martial arts saying! When you can take the pebble from my hand you have learned enough to move on!! I'm pretty sure the old guy's on here still have the pebble in there hand's

 

[John Finch]

Every time I spend tons of time testing turn fins and I think I got it all figured out, I find another boat that just refuses to play well with the same fin. I think the possibilities are so great that each boat needs to be tested with many fins to get the right combination. I find that even the left sponson is a player in how well the boat turns, so looking further than the turn fin can be beneficial.

John

 

[Charles Perdue]

This topic was named Best setup for Best corning, not what just works.

I will be the first one to admit that I do not know everything about anything. But I do know how to make a boat turn very good.

To make a boat turn VERY GOOD, you cannot pick and choose what part or parts of any particular setup that you think will work. You cannot ignore scientific principles, you must learn and use them. It must be the entire package. This begins with a very rigid hull, very rigid sponsons and sponson brackets and a very rigid properly shaped turn fin. When a boat is set up with the BEST setup, you do not have to back off and set the boat for the turns. All that you have to do is turn the rudder. When it is right, the boat turns so quickly that it looks like it is actually accelerating through the turns. If you are having to set the boat for it to turn then you are trying to compensate for some part of the package that is not correct. It only takes one thing not being right to prevent this from working.

All of this is not a theory, it is fact. It has been tried and proven through many races and many wins. There are currently a few boats around that are able to do this.

When you have finally figured out what is necessary, then all of that setup can be readily applied to ANY hydro. Jack and Steve O'Donnells 60 boat was only three weeks old when it blew away the 60 hydro Namba 2 lap record by many seconds. Its entire setup was transferred from a BOSS 20 hydro and a BOSS 40 hydro and then their 60 BOSS hydro was built in one week. No Brag, just facts.

And no, I am not ready to share all of this setup package with everyone just yet. When I am sure that I will never race again, then maybe I will.....

Enjoy,

Charles

 

[DON MAHER]

Great post Mr. Charlie!

Don

 

[Charles Perdue]

Thanks Mr. Don, you are one of the people, most are from southern California, that have seen the BOSS boats run and turn, It is one thing to try and tell people how they work and another thing when they actually see them running for themselves.

I am not trying to say that they were developed instantly, in fact it took several years after they began to work before most of the kinks were ironed out. But the more that the concept was worked on, the easier that the boats drove. I am just an average driver myself but in the hands of someone like Steve O'Donnell, they were awesome.

Charles

 

[Bradley Ward]

Charles sorry for my ignorance! But are the boats still made? Or were they custom built 1 off's? I'm interested in looking at one if anyone has a picture? Any old BOSS boat pictures floating around? Also ruffly what era did they run! I'm a bit of a reader (not a speller) and I'd love to read some history of NAMBA and especially the introduction and development of the RC Rigger's thanks for your insight and your job with some (in my opinion anyway) development that helped set records! Regardless of what other's think i will give you a pat on the back!!

 

[John Finch]

Charles,

I agree with the stiff tub and stiff sponson connections to the tub. When a boat with boom tubes is slammed into a turn the right sponson can change ride angle considerably. I think most people will agree that also changes the attack angle of the fin. I am 100 percent onboard with that. For those who have not done this......Table your rigger without the engine and fuel in the boat and then table it with fuel and engine. Note the angle of attack of the sponsons changes with the weight change. There is some proof right there that the booms flex, and that does not even compare to what happens when you throw the boat into a hard turn.

 

[Christian Lucas]

Two years ago i have testet succsecfully a stearable front turn fin . I mounted it in the middelsection forward of the c.g. . So the fin is not outrigged with the sponson . To get small downforce to the front during conering the finruddershaft is angled backwards 5 - 8 degree belong to the need. As this fin is far forward the c.g. it can be much smaller with less drag and like the ruder on the back it can ad some inside trust when cornering . I run this on a lightwaight Crapshooter rigger . Next oval rigger will get a similar turnfin. Need a second servo in the front ,but have a look at high performance fighter planes and look how many flapy and rudder they use to overcome other competitor , you will understand .

Happy Amps Christian

 

[Joe Warren]

There has been about 10 million design changes since the Boss Hydro. I have been boating for 18 years. & the only one i seen run Bill Mcgraw had it at the lake Running it 17/18 years ago. Unless we are talking about Modern day Engines, Modern day Props & Modern day Hydros the Rest is History!!!! I respect anyone that can push pass 100 MPH its hard to do. It requires a Great Boat & Engine & Prop to all show up on the same Day at the lake!!! Turn Fins are like Opinons. Everyone has one..

 

[Charles Perdue]

Joe, the ONLY people that have ever run the BOSS hydro is myself, Sid Ford, Steve and Jack O'Donnell.

It is said that the memory is the second thing that goes, after a certain age, the first thing that goes does not matter.

You have a nice day.

Charles

 

[Ron Zaker Jr]

What was the Boss boat Ron Hubbard and Norris Sparks were running? Different boat same name? Just asking.

 

[bermudadude]

lol im a J.A.F.O here but i read these facts and think,, has anybody seen an SG run??

i was impressed by that "funny looking skinny boat" 20+ years ago when i saw that single lap ,,,,,well EVERYTHING at the atlanta spring nats. the thing was it wasnt even the designer that blew my mind it was a 3rd party- the late Joe Engrayo (sp) .was totally confused as to why run anything else after seeing that. now i must ad that at the 100(or close to- that K90 was a BEAST) it ran,still running out of track and engine winding mind you,it would NEVER turn,however it ,and Andys boat would turn on rails at a good 80+. i kept thinking why would you buy anything else when THAT is out there?? immediately found the owner and introduced myself and found out how to get one. so i got 2 ,a .20 and a .90. as soon as i got them i rough fit the parts to get a "look" and noticed that those fancy booms flexed like crazy, i was on the phone in short time discussing this with John and he said dont replace those booms (as was my idea at the time) thats how it works,its the same boat you saw run. well ok. after building it i notice the turn fin seemed a little too ,,"flexy" instead of wasting the phone call i figure-ok thats how it sposed to be. well, i will tell you,i soon after threw away the other boats i had that where second hand and weathered, ive wrecked that first .90 from just going too fast too much,i still have them front sponsons that have damage but i l keep em for reference ,ive bought another .90 back in '04 and an .80, the .20 didnt get run much because i have to run in open ocean and wait for a calm day so thats still in good condition,flexy booms n fin n all. ive bought another popular boat (no names) and i ran it 3 times and sold it for a song ,if somebody gave me another one id prob stand on it just to make sure nobody runs it near me. IF had to buy another boat i would buy an SG

im just sayin,i dont eat cat but OBVIOUSLY theres more than one way to skin one

we shouldnt argue one idea OVER another but simply compare notes. sometimes its the total package not the one off fin or rudder or prop etc that makes a boat work.

also might i add some of the newest boats now like the JAE and others have really thin carbon tubes and they are REALLY long so i can only imagine how much they flex.

p.s a friend of mine was into go carts for a while and he found that the "flexy chassis" cornered best/fastest soooo theres something there .

but its like traveling -some like the interstate some like the scenic route highways. just preference

jm2¢

 

[Charles Perdue]

What was the Boss boat Ron Hubbard and Norris Sparks were running? Different boat same name? Just asking.

It was not one of mine. I am not aware of anyone else using the Boss boat name except one guy in the LA area that was building gas boats some years back. Maybe Marty will chime in and help us on that one....he is from the area where those guys ran.

Charles