.90 "JAE"

[Paul Traufler]

For my JAE 101 I used 3/8" solid rods, they are PLENTY strong enough and not a great deal bigger or costly ove rthe 5/16 rods. I did use some brass tubing in the sponsons like all other JAE designs, but used some AL tubing in the tub (the back only) for the 3/8 rod to slide into. Wanted some more strength in that area as it is in the turn fin area.
Paul

 

[Blackout]

For my JAE 101 I used 3/8" solid rods, they are PLENTY strong enough and not a great deal bigger or costly ove rthe 5/16 rods. I did use some brass tubing in the sponsons like all other JAE designs, but used some AL tubing in the tub (the back only) for the 3/8 rod to slide into. Wanted some more strength in that area as it is in the turn fin area.
Paul

What are the wall thinknesses of the brass and aluminum tubes you used in the sponsons and tub? For my JAE 45, I'm using .032" thick wall brass tubing for both the tub and sponsons. On my JAE 21, the .014" wall brass tubing started to distort at the ends after a few bouys hits and boom tube breakage.

 

[hugh hargett]

For my JAE 101 I used 3/8" solid rods, they are PLENTY strong enough and not a great deal bigger or costly ove rthe 5/16 rods. I did use some brass tubing in the sponsons like all other JAE designs, but used some AL tubing in the tub (the back only) for the 3/8 rod to slide into. Wanted some more strength in that area as it is in the turn fin area.
Paul

What are the wall thinknesses of the brass and aluminum tubes you used in the sponsons and tub? For my JAE 45, I'm using .032" thick wall brass tubing for both the tub and sponsons. On my JAE 21, the .014" wall brass tubing started to distort at the ends after a few bouys hits and boom tube breakage.

Thanks fellas for catching up to the thread. Blackout you could double your brass with telescoping pieces. What Im thinking of is square stock anchors and solid aluminum booms. I dont know what I was looking at. I was just milling around lowes. This boat will be a twin so I got started tracking down drivetrain materials.

What Ive ordered so far:

2 proboat 1/8 scale ferrules ( I liked the taper) and they were only 5 dollars each from phils hobby's

2 Aeromarine hardended 3/16 stubshafts $4.00 ea.

2 aeromarine profiled hydro strut blades $17.95 ea.

2 aeromarine reducers .

I still need left and right lay flex cable-supplier???????

I also plan to run bearings but I wont know their needed od until I get a mic on the aeromarine reducers!(anyone know it off hand)

I need a middle mounted rudder

Questions:

1. should I omit the ski from the plans, have one big ski or 2 seperate ones for each shaft?

2. Wheres a good source for boom materials? Or is the link above good to go.

3. Does anyone have any sponson mods or hull mods they recommend?

Kevin for now Im just gonna go the exacto knife route. When you get the needed info from Rod just let me know and Ill pm you the cash.

I spoke with Mr Tyndall a few weeks back . Hes going to build me a fin for my Circus so I may go on ahead and have him do one for this boat. Although it's expected to be a saw boat I may play around with some two lap runs. Any other suggestions. I expect the kv of my motors to be between 1400 and 1600 and 8- 10s power. Any starting prop suggestions?

Paul was that 3/8 stock CF or aluminium

Hugh

 

[kcvnd]

Hugh I am waiting on David Hall not Rod. He is the one that does the CAD drawing. Sorry for the delay but it is out of my hands for now.

 

[hugh hargett]

Kevin What do you need? The pdf imported to a dxf? Im not worried about hull amendments as I plan to make some mods myself. It would be nice if I could simply get the sponsons cut out.

I still hope to hear more on the trip non trip debate as far as modifications go :huh:

 

[Blackout]

For my JAE 101 I used 3/8" solid rods, they are PLENTY strong enough and not a great deal bigger or costly ove rthe 5/16 rods. I did use some brass tubing in the sponsons like all other JAE designs, but used some AL tubing in the tub (the back only) for the 3/8 rod to slide into. Wanted some more strength in that area as it is in the turn fin area.
Paul

What are the wall thinknesses of the brass and aluminum tubes you used in the sponsons and tub? For my JAE 45, I'm using .032" thick wall brass tubing for both the tub and sponsons. On my JAE 21, the .014" wall brass tubing started to distort at the ends after a few bouys hits and boom tube breakage.

Thanks fellas for catching up to the thread. Blackout you could double your brass with telescoping pieces. What Im thinking of is square stock anchors and solid aluminum booms. I dont know what I was looking at. I was just milling around lowes. This boat will be a twin so I got started tracking down drivetrain materials.

What Ive ordered so far:

2 proboat 1/8 scale ferrules ( I liked the taper) and they were only 5 dollars each from phils hobby's

2 Aeromarine hardended 3/16 stubshafts $4.00 ea.

2 aeromarine profiled hydro strut blades $17.95 ea.

2 aeromarine reducers .

I still need left and right lay flex cable-supplier???????

I also plan to run bearings but I wont know their needed od until I get a mic on the aeromarine reducers!(anyone know it off hand)

I need a middle mounted rudder

Questions:

1. should I omit the ski from the plans, have one big ski or 2 seperate ones for each shaft?

2. Wheres a good source for boom materials? Or is the link above good to go.

3. Does anyone have any sponson mods or hull mods they recommend?

Kevin for now Im just gonna go the exacto knife route. When you get the needed info from Rod just let me know and Ill pm you the cash.

I spoke with Mr Tyndall a few weeks back . Hes going to build me a fin for my Circus so I may go on ahead and have him do one for this boat. Although it's expected to be a saw boat I may play around with some two lap runs. Any other suggestions. I expect the kv of my motors to be between 1400 and 1600 and 8- 10s power. Any starting prop suggestions?

Paul was that 3/8 stock CF or aluminium

Hugh

I get my carbon rods and tubes from goodwinds.com.

I get metal from mcmaster.com

I would not use solid aluminum for boom tubes. You will get more rigidity and less weight by increasing the diameter of a tube than using a smaller diameter solid rod.

 

[kcvnd]

Kevin What do you need? The pdf imported to a dxf? Im not worried about hull amendments as I plan to make some mods myself. It would be nice if I could simply get the sponsons cut out.

I still hope to hear more on the trip non trip debate as far as modifications go :huh:

Hugh the plan that was sent to me by Rod was not drawn to appropriate proportions. While the numerical measurements are there, the line drawings do not match the noted measurements. The plan does not therefore scale appropriately. I alerted David hall to this. I do not have the time to redraw the plan and since David is redrawing and updating it, I have little interest in spending my time to do the same.

 

[gil sonsino]

Hugh I would recommend for booms 3/8 hollow carbon rods from ACP and fill them with epoxy glue for better strenght ...that's what I did on my 101 Jae. at a lower final balance than carbon solid rods. You can also have them cut to your own specs for only U$1.00

http://www.acpsales.com/home.html

Keep seperate skis.

Sponsons to Zipp specs will work for you.

Gill

 

[Paul Traufler]

Solid CF rods, I think it was GoodWinds but could have been ACP or CTS. I used some THICK wall AL aircraft tubing in the tub for the CF rod to pass through. It was SUPER thick (like 1/8"!) but in the end I figured it was maybe 1Oz of more weight and on a 101 that really did not matter. I only did that thick wall stuff for the back pass through. The sponson end I used the K&S brass stuff, I think it is 0.32" wall stuff.

One ski per shaft would be the path I'd take over 1 big ski.

Use 1/8" 5 ply wood on the Rt inside sponson and some hard wood for the brass to glue into also. I used round oak that was like 5/8 dia and then drilled it out for the brass to glue into. Needs to be solid to hold things in place.

 

[hugh hargett]

How about using an oval shaped tube? Might be stronger than a round tube...might even add a little aero...?

-Kent

Kent I wasnt ignoring you. I may put a canard profile over the booms but I dont want to create any unwanted lift in the front. Ive seen many riggers in europe that have that design for the booms. I dont want to get too radical coz then I wont be able to get much help from other Jae owners. If I stay close to stock then others experiences will help me, But Im definately taking all these great ideas into account. As it is the JAE is a fast boat so any mods I do will be very small. I may be looking to run two sets of sponsons. 1 set for saw the other for oval. The oval set is the set that may see some changes. After a few pm's from some valued and seasoned builders we may make some slight mods for oval trim. Not at all taking away from the genius of the original design team mos definatey already a great boat. I really hope Rod takes no offense as I have the utmost respect for his design and offered theories. Im just thinking she made a little tweaking for heavy heat racing. I may not make the sponson mods myself as I am in no way knowledgeable on hydrodynamics. As far as aerodynamics I hope to Get one of Shawn K's cowls like he has on his ducati JAE. Sharpest cowl Ive seen so far fo a JAE

 

[gil sonsino]

Hugh if you inttend to use your boat for SAW just make the rear boom adjustable in height like SGX's riggers so you won't have to make mods in your sponsons...remember that the AOA for SAW is around 5 to 6 degrees.

Gill

 

[Geraghty]

Mr Geraghty Ive read some of the trip or not trip debate on the other thread. I can say that I think you and folks like Don are both correct in certain reguards. I believe in the physics of what you are saying . I also know Don and others have ALOT of heat racing experience .I find truth in both without disproving one another. I can also see plainly with my eyes that the jae design relies more heavily upon a correctly setup turnfin.Looking at the sponson design it seems you can add a slight bevel on the outside sponson without going away from your flat plane theory. I got kinda lost in the debate coz One argument seemed to be about the sponson attack profile and then the trip talk I thought was a sponson outside edge issue :huh: . I got lost in there somehow. This one here will be a twin saw most likely . Question: Will there be two skis for a twin Jae?

Im a true believer in physical theory, but we must always use it in conjuction with real word facts to get a better overall picture of the problem, or the solution.

I just saw this thread....

Mr. Geraghty is my dad .....I am Rod ....... .....flat plane surfaces on the sponson bottoms keep the boat very light and on top of the water.....

JAE's look like a waterbug on top of the water when running with the very minimum of surface contact with the sponsons and the ski.....

That is what "flat plane technology does" for hydrodynamic contact with the water......

We have tested the hell out of sponsons with and without non-trips......With either,If the turnfin was not right the boat would

eventually do something stupid.......The instant the turnfin entered the "sweet spot" the boat became virtually bullet-proof .....

 

[Geraghty]

Mr. Geraghty, tell me what does an H style sponson do for the Jae?

Nothing in the performance department and they are tougher to build.....but they sure do look neat.......

 

[Geraghty]

Mr Geraghty, no offense, but why would one take more trouble to build something for the same results? I also read the trip not trip debate, so I decided to go out and look at a couple of things mentioned like: boom material. I went out and looked at some carbon fiber and aluminum stock that could be used for booms. This is what I found. No matter whether it was carbon fiber or aluminum, solid or tubular they all flexed simply by me applying a little pressure with my hands, so in the boat theyd flex much more. I understand weight considerations; but is it possible this boat may need something else for the booms? The Jae has a very wide footprint(longer booms) so it may need to consider an entirely different piece of material for the booms than traditional riggers. Please, no one come on here and tell me how they know the booms are not flexing. Thats bs coz unless youve measured it with some type of equipment you cant see it with a naked eye

Also do you plan any design modifications to secure the turnfin to the tub for rigidity? I looked at some of our Japanese comrades riggers (which are very fast) and they all seem to have some kind of anchor securing the turnfin to the tub.

For a boat so dependent on the turn fin it seems logical that that fin HAS to be robustly tied in to the body of the boat

Hugh

Because I enjoy building....it is no more complicated than that.......

A bit of flex in the boom tubes causes no problems with the turnfin........I am not concerned with vertical stiffness of the boom tubes.

With a properly designed turnfin,controlling the lateral enertia is what holds the boat in the corners.....

As long as the boomtubes are strong enough to with stand the punishment of running the boat they will be fine.....

We have concluded that solid booms work best controlling this punisnment and living to run another day.....

The Japanese turnfin braces are mainly used on the sponsons that do not have extended backs behind the running surfaces....

I used these extended backs on the sponsons to get the boom tubes farther apart.....This left more room between the booms for fuel tanks and whatever.....

 

[Mike Byer]

I think tm has a successor

 

[Geraghty]

Rod Geraghty, are you abandoning your boat? or is it thats the design is pefect and doesnt merit conversation? Tell me about this boat.

I don't follow the FE thread very often and I hadn't seen all your interrogation techniques.....for that I apologize......

I have never been hard to contact.....I have posted my phone number dozens of times and have never refused to talk to anybody about the JAE....

1-715-926-6096............In the past I have made it very clear that keyboarding is a skill that has kicked my ass and I find it very difficult to type....that is why I ask for phone calls and I will do it on my dime if necessary ....

When David Hall and I started the JAE thing on 4-9-2009 [that was the first release of the JAE .12 "free"plans ] we stated our mission was to get people building again......

Getting a bucket of smart ass comments was not on our things to accomplish list......

We also wanted to give the new model boater a path to the hobby without having a need for a $10,000.00 limit on their Visa card.....Everything we did initially was aimed at encouraging new meat to get involved in model boating.....

I have to admit,the JAE phenomena has gone far beyond our wildest dreams......Interest in the JAE boats has reached world wide......

To date,we have released 17 sheets of "free" plans....[and 6 more pages are in process as we speak]

On RC Universe there is a current thread started 8-19-2009 on the JAE that has had 96,000 views with 72 pages of comments and the thread still sits on page one everyday.....

http://www.rcunivers..._9026180/tm.htm

The JAE roll had been in full swing 20 months prior to you joining IW .......A ton of questions and comments had been asked and answered prior to you coming on the JAE scene.....There is a ton of info out here if you want to do some research.....

To the best of my knowledge I have never once failed to answer an inquiry about the boat or have I ever said the design was perfect......

I am not am not in the least bit interested in debating a "design" theory in a thread....Every set of plans we have released has had countless hours "on the water developement" prior to the releasing of those plans for consumption......All the JAE team can do is tell people that ask what we have tested and what we found that works......what they do with that information is their choice to make.......

To be honest the biggest problems that we have had with the JAE is when somebody builds the boat and incorporates their own changes prior to even running the boat as designed......

Once again I apologize that I didn't see your comments earlier...but,.....

I can tell you this , assuming I have read something and then calling me out with sharp elbows is not the best way to to approach me for comments....... <_< :angry:

 

[hugh hargett]

I admit I was tyring to provoke you into talking lol. But no disrepect was intended. Most definately appreciate the words back. Sorry if approached you the wrong way. I had seen where you commented on the gas jae thread so i figured you were looking but not speaking. Ive been watching the jae since it came out but i havent seen any fe .90/101's - not one. If there is a build of one somewhere id love to see it. Do you have a link?

I went to the zipkits site today to look at a bullit intially then looked around in general. It looks to me like the gas Jae kit would give me the stiffer booms etc and is a boat thats available.

 

[Paul Traufler]

I do not have a FE 90 size but I do have a FE 45 size ready to test out as soon as we get some lake time. (Weather stinks!) It is a 6S setup with a Neu motor. I expect 80+ MPH out of this setup. The design is JAE but the tub is wider to take the batt packs and I did move the sponson tube spacing to fit the battery or ESC between them. Did a cowl/hatch sort of deal to cover the goodies up from water. Will report on how she runs when I test her out.

MAY run up to 8S with this setup also, we will see...

Paul

 

[Geraghty]

I admit I was tyring to provoke you into talking lol. But no disrepect was intended. Most definately appreciate the words back. Sorry if approached you the wrong way. I had seen where you commented on the gas jae thread so i figured you were looking but not speaking. Ive been watching the jae since it came out but i havent seen any fe .90/101's - not one. If there is a build of one somewhere id love to see it. Do you have a link?

I went to the zipkits site today to look at a bullit intially then looked around in general. It looks to me like the gas Jae kit would give me the stiffer booms etc and is a boat thats available.

To the best of my knowledge there has been no JAE 90-101 boat that has been built for FE application....

Somebody out there might have built one for FE but I don't know who they are....

This 90-101 boat was built by David Hall and it used 3/8" solid carbon rods and they worked great without failure or concerns.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fZmfQoqSlY&feature=related

The water you see here was rougher than hell on the back stretch and the boat was running 85 mph on radar ......

The motor in the boat for this run was a Rossi.90.............This boat was built exactly to the plans without any changes to said plans....

Build a boat,run it and develop some personal practical experience with the JAE concept.....

After that I will be glad to discuss any concerns you may have at that time....

Note: The gas JAE is Zippkits and Zippkits alone.....We built the prototype and ran 70mph with a stock RCMK right off the stand.......

We turned those plans over to Zippkits [Joe Petro] and we did no further gas boat developement from that point forward....

 

[hugh hargett]

"Build a boat,run it and develop some personal practical experience with the JAE concept....."

"After that I will be glad to discuss any concerns you may have at that time...."

will do headed to kinkos now. Ill set up a jig for the tub tonight and clear a clean area to build it. Will post the progress.

http://ne-stuff.blogspot.com/2010/03/jae-91101hg-pdf-plans.html