Need Help on old outrigger.

Im looking for any help on a Bishop Marine "Phantom". This boat was offered in kit form in the 80's as far as I know. What I'm looking for is any pic's that some one might have and or a kit laying around they would want to sell.Looking for a 40 size boat if possible.I have a set of plans and thats it,never have had the chance to see the boat in person so any help would be great. It was Joe Bishop who designed it, if that helps any one. Thanks Dustin

I have a picture of the Phantom. It was the box label. Do you have the building instructions? The instructions cover all single eng. boats.

spider said:

I have a picture of the Phantom. It was the box label. Do you have the building instructions? The instructions cover all single eng. boats.

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pm sent thanks

Hopefully this helps. Not a very good pic.

Ken

I raced against Bishop Marine Phantoms years ago, back in the 70's and early 80's. This was in Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas.

The Phantoms had "adjustable everything". When they were spot on they ran well. But so much of the time, the person running a Phantom was spending a lot of time trying to get all the adjustments right for that day's conditions.

Bishop also had a kit "Trike" 3 riding surface hydro. "Trike" might not be the correct name. I saw several of them run, but I never saw one of them run well.

Watching the Bishop Marine Design hydros run back then encouraged me to try Huey riggers.

Al Hobbs

is that the guy that was killed by his wife?

WOW, funny how things get twisted around! #1, No my wife did not kill me. #2, I never produced the Trike because I could never get it to run to my satisfaction. To any one that saw a so called Trike run, it was not designed nor built by me. #3, The Phantom was way ahead of its time and was far too complex for the average boat racer. I had planned to simplify it and lighten it as well. My personal Phantom would consistently run in the 100 MPH range. LOL, I saw these old post and just had to respond to them. Have a great day! Joe Bishop

JOE : I RAN YOUR 21 PHANTOM AND LOVED IT . STILL HAVE THE HARDWARE TILL THIS DAY. HOW FAST DID YOU GET YOUR 21 RIGGER TO GO WITH YOUR K&B EXHAUST THROTTLE? ARE YOU STILL A BELIEVER IN SOLID DRIVE SHAFTS? DAN MCCORMICK NAMBA 221.

Hey Joe, you need to bring that phantom boat back, Denny Preston had one

that was lightning fast, beautiful boat,,,always wanted to build a twin version of the boat,,,

Wasn't there a Flying Models article done on it back in the day?

Very innovative design for the times. Imagine an adjustable hard shaft!

Joe

Thanks for setting that bad rumor straight.I helped build .65 Phantom in the late 70s an helped on a twin .65 using your design also both were Rossi powered. It is my all time favor design an fastest rigger i ever have driven. If you bring back the Phantom ill take it.

Ken

JOEBISHOP said:

WOW, funny how things get twisted around! #1, No my wife did not kill me. #2, I never produced the Trike because I could never get it to run to my satisfaction. To any one that saw a so called Trike run, it was not designed nor built by me. #3, The Phantom was way ahead of its time and was far too complex for the average boat racer. I had planned to simplify it and lighten it as well. My personal Phantom would consistently run in the 100 MPH range. LOL, I saw these old post and just had to respond to them. Have a great day! Joe Bishop

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Hi Joe,

Thanks for posting. I used several of your products. They were great! Probably still have some parts in a box somewhere.

I never saw a Trike run, but I saw a Trike kit box on the wall in a Ft. Lauderdale hobby shop ( run by Howard Weeks) in 1975/77. I guess I forgot who produced it!

I

Joe: do you still have any full size drawings of the Phantom's? Like came in the kit. I had a 40 size and the plans have faded with time.

NOVALTD said:

JOE : I RAN YOUR 21 PHANTOM AND LOVED IT . STILL HAVE THE HARDWARE TILL THIS DAY. HOW FAST DID YOU GET YOUR 21 RIGGER TO GO WITH YOUR K&B EXHAUST THROTTLE? ARE YOU STILL A BELIEVER IN SOLID DRIVE SHAFTS? DAN MCCORMICK NAMBA 221.

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Hi Dan, back in the day, John Broadbeck Jr. (president of K&B Engines) was a good friend of mine. He sponsored me with K&B engines. I was at a Dallas Texas race and John walked up to me and handed me a plain cardboard box and said "don't open this until you get back to your hotel room". Well, the hell with that! As soon as I was out of sight of him, I opened the box. In it was the first K&B .21 outboard the company had ever released, serial #G69. I built a Steve Muck tunnel hull and installed the engine on it, took it to the lake and was bad disappointed (about 30-35 MPH)! I took the boat back to the shop, took the motor off and started modifying it. I knew it was a good design but it needed some changes. After some additional testing, I got the little boat to near 70 MPH. Took it to a race in Dallas and by that time a lot of guys had the new outboards. They were all going around the course at about 30 MPH just porpoising up and down all the way around. Denny launched my little tunnel hull and it put up a roster tail the full length of the course. One of the guys from New Orleans kept screaming "hey Louis (Louis Durant), look at that outboard, look at that outboard" I was turning the course at well over 60 MPH.

Anyway, I liked experimenting with the K&B .21 and I re-cut the exhaust timing (to 210 degrees of crankshaft rotation) and did a few other mods to one. We test ran it to a total of 33,000 RPM. I used this engine in my Phantom 20 size boat but never got a MPH on it although it was unbelievably fast. So much so that I had to slow down before attempting a turn or the boat would flip into the next county, LOL!

To answer your question on solid drive shafts, the way I had it set up in the phantom was the least drag application I could come up with. The flex shaft involves quite a bit of drag. The only draw-back on the drive line was the crude u-joint just before the strut. I was working on a better one (almost friction free u-joint) but never finished it. Later! Joe

eagletwin90 said:

Hey Joe, you need to bring that phantom boat back, Denny Preston had one

that was lightning fast, beautiful boat,,,always wanted to build a twin version of the boat,,,

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As a matter of fact, I gave Denny the only twin Phantom I ever built. It had twin OPS .65s. I did a few test runs with it but never spent the time to really get it to go fast. I don't know what Denny ever did with it. As for bringing the Phantom back, WOW, you do realize the boat is almost 40 years old? If I ever do anything, I would design the Phantom II which I have did concept drawings of. It would be much simpler, much lighter and MUCH faster. Later! Joe

Terry Keeley said:

Wasn't there a Flying Models article done on it back in the day?

Very innovative design for the times. Imagine an adjustable hard shaft!

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Don't remember if Flying Models did an article on it or not although me and my boats were in the magazine a lot. Joe

KenOlvis said:

Joe

Thanks for setting that bad rumor straight.I helped build .65 Phantom in the late 70s an helped on a twin .65 using your design also both were Rossi powered. It is my all time favor design an fastest rigger i ever have driven. If you bring back the Phantom ill take it.

Ken

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Hi Ken, thanks for the kind words! As for setting the bad rumors straight, I think I misstated something. Concerning the Trike, now that I think about it, I believe I did build a few kits. I had told the guys that I would release it so they could help me experiment with setups for it. You Guys have to realize, it has been 40 years ago so I have slept a few times since then, LOL! As for bringing the Phantom back, I answered that question earlier. A note of interest, I do still have the only prototype of the Phantom .90. I built it but never ran it or produced kits of it. It has a Rossi .90 or .91 in it and I believe all the hardware except the rudder if I remember right. It has been stored at my oldest suns house for years so I think that is right. It would make a great 23cc gas boat. Joe

Andy Brown said:

JOEBISHOP said:

WOW, funny how things get twisted around! #1, No my wife did not kill me. #2, I never produced the Trike because I could never get it to run to my satisfaction. To any one that saw a so called Trike run, it was not designed nor built by me. #3, The Phantom was way ahead of its time and was far too complex for the average boat racer. I had planned to simplify it and lighten it as well. My personal Phantom would consistently run in the 100 MPH range. LOL, I saw these old post and just had to respond to them. Have a great day! Joe Bishop

Click to expand...

Hi Joe,

Thanks for posting. I used several of your products. They were great! Probably still have some parts in a box somewhere.

I never saw a Trike run, but I saw a Trike kit box on the wall in a Ft. Lauderdale hobby shop ( run by Howard Weeks) in 1975/77. I guess I forgot who produced it!

I

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Hi Andy, concerning the Trike, I answered that question in an earlier post. I appreciate you using my products and hope they did a good job for you. Joe

Ken Webb said:

Joe: do you still have any full size drawings of the Phantom's? Like came in the kit. I had a 40 size and the plans have faded with time.

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Hi Ken, sad story, I had all my drawings stored at my mother's house. As Mom got older, my sister decided to put her in a rest home (as she was Mom's power of attorney), cleaned out Mom's house and sold it. I have ask her (my sister) where my drawings are but she swears she did not see them! The truth of the matter is that she either trashed them or her or one of her kids thought they were pretty and stole them. Sorry! Joe

Al Hobbs said:

I raced against Bishop Marine Phantoms years ago, back in the 70's and early 80's. This was in Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas.

The Phantoms had "adjustable everything". When they were spot on they ran well. But so much of the time, the person running a Phantom was spending a lot of time trying to get all the adjustments right for that day's conditions.

Bishop also had a kit "Trike" 3 riding surface hydro. "Trike" might not be the correct name. I saw several of them run, but I never saw one of them run well.

Watching the Bishop Marine Design hydros run back then encouraged me to try Huey riggers.

Al Hobbs

Click to expand...

Like I said, they were too advanced for the average boat racer. Too bad you and your Huey didn't get a chance to race me and "MY" Phantom.