VOTE HERE for which FE class you want at the 09 tunnel Worlds!

[topfuel443]

Please vote, this decision will be left up to the racers to decide which FE class we offer at the 2009 World Tunnel Championships. Also, please understand the CMB club members have VERY little experience (ok, none at all....) with FE classes in general, so we will have to ask questions, especially if the spec class is chosen to make sure everyone is on the same page when the time comes.

Thanks, James

 

[Darin Jordan]

James,

I still owe you some rules to consider... I'm working on that package for you, but in the meantime, here is what I would suggest be done.

To stick with NAMBA terminology for FE Racing, I would suggest running the class as:

P-Spec OPC Tunnel. This MAY be what you are calling out in the survey as "14-Volt Spec FE Tunnel"...

The P-Spec would be as follows:

P-Spec Power Specifications

1) Motor Specifications

The intent of the P-Spec Motor Specifications is to define a motor and Electronic Speed Control (ESC) package to be used in Limited Spec class racing. These rules are intended to either supersede, or be in addition to, any rules pertaining to motors for a given class, as specified within the rules for that class.

Motors and ESCs in these specifications shall be based on readily available parts from past, current, and/or future Ready-to-Run offerings by various manufactures. Only motors and ESCs on the approved motor list shall be allowed.

Motors and ESCs may be mixed and matched amongst the approved parts as desired.

Motors and ESCs are intended to be used as they are supplied. Therefore, no alterations or modifications are allowed, unless specifically stated in these rules. Motor shall be directly connected to the output drive shaft, no gear/belt over/under drives will be allowed.

2) Approved Motors

The motors approved for P-Spec racing are:

ProBoat

PBR3310 A3630-1500 4 pole brushless motor (BJ26, Formula FastTech, Miss Elam FE)

AquaCraft

AQUG7000 L36/56 7.2-18V 6 pole brushless motor (SV27)

AQUG7001 36-56-2030 6 pole brushless motor (UL-1 Superior)

3) Approved Electronic Speed Controls (ESC)

The ESCs approved for P-Spec racing are:

ProBoat

PBR3309 45 amp brushless ESC (BJ26, Formula FastTech, Miss Elam FE)

AquaCraft

AQUM7010 AquaCraft 45 amp waterproof ESC (SV27)

AQUM7011 AquaCraft 60 amp water cooled/proof ESC (UL-1 Superior)

4) Cooling

Motors and ESCs may be cooled as desired. Water jackets, cooling plates, electronic fans, etc., may be added as desired, so long as they don’t perform an otherwise illegal function.

5) Contacts and Wiring

Originally supplied contacts may be replaced.

Wire length on the power and phase leads may be altered to facilitate installation.

If lengthening the original wires, additional wire may be added to the factory supplied wires.

If shortening the original wires, the final contact to the Motor or ESC must be made using the original wiring.

The intent of this rule is to prevent the removal and replacement of the original wiring in its entirety, by requiring that the final contact to the Motor or ESC be made by the original wiring.

6) Battery

Batteries shall conform to NAMBA Electric Racing “P” power rules, as specified in section 28.D.1.a of the NAMBA Rules:

Any amount and/or size of motors, any endbell, bearings, and magnets.

Power Limits: 10.1 to 15 Volts nominal, any chemistry.

Maximum of 2 packs in parallel.

Maximum capacity of 10,000 mAh

7) Hull

Hulls shall conform to NAMBA Electric Racing “P” class hull limits as specified in the NAMBA Electric racing rules, section 28.D.1.b.

Additionally, Hull shall conform to the generally accepted NAMBA rules for the hull type

being raced, i.e.: OPC Tunnel, Mono, Sport Hydro, etc.

 

[James E Beasley]

Please vote, this decision will be left up to the racers to decide which FE class we offer at the 2009 World Tunnel Championships. Also, please understand the CMB club members have VERY little experience (ok, none at all....) with FE classes in general, so we will have to ask questions, especially if the spec class is chosen to make sure everyone is on the same page when the time comes.
Thanks, James

The early votes lean toward a defined class it appears. I personally do not like being limited to a choice of 3 motors and 3 ESC's all by two mfgs, looks like certain mfgs are being favored! NEU motors are the most respected brushless motors and they are not allowed / even mentioned. The term "Open" would certainly have to be dropped from the class name if voting follows the current trend. No one likely cares but I doubt I will go out and buy all new equipment to field a boat when I have perefectly good FE equipment already available. Respectfully, James Beasley

 

[AlanN]

What Darrin has specified is for spec class rules.

Yes, there are only 2 manufacturers which makes it more even as far as motor and speed controllers go. This is what the majority of FE racers are deciding to run in spec class. Deciding to use only 2 makes of motors keeps alot of bickering out of the racing aspect, especially since FE basis it's classes on V and not cc size like nitro or gas.

Open is what open means. As many cells as you want along with limitless choices on motors and speed controllers. So to just say Open means you might just have a 10S (35V) 1/4 scale tunnels running with much smaller nitros. Unless that is not allowed and I am being ignorant of your rules.

IMO there are 2 main choices:

1) Running under the rules and limits as Darrin has stated

2) Running a 4S (14V) class with open motor and speed controller choices. Unless someone like James runs 6S or other and see's it differently.

I know it's a big show for you guys and running 2 FE classes might not fit into your schedule but it would be a huge offering to the FE racers.

James, I just started running an FE tunnel this year and have tried a few different types of motors. Very fun and rewarding. I like that you have an open style setup it's just it's easier to get guys running this class if we spell it out for them. I would love to see and or hear about your setup. (sorry I like to hijack posts h34r: )

And I did not vote for any class since I would like to see both offered. Yeah I can be a PIA.

 

[Kris Flynn]

I am still wanting to make this race, Anyone want to sponsor me in some way to help make it possible

I would love to see a Spec class, but I would also Love to see and Open 'P' rather than just plain 'Open'. Either way I will have boats to suit and its all about what the majority run.

It will be VERY interesting to see WHO votes and then ACTUALLY SHOWS UP.

Cheers

Kris

 

[lohring]

The difference in cost between a P spec tunnel and an open P tunnel is huge. I have one of each. The P spec boat is very similar in size and performance to a 3.5 stock tunnel. It costs about the same as a stock 3.5 nitro boat. Though an open P power plant can be used on that hull to push speeds into the 60 mph area, the hull is too small for heat racing at that speed. My open P tunnel is an extra light Leecraft XT-460 7.5 size hull. From very brief testing in rough conditions, it seems about as fast as a 7.5 stock nitro boat. The power plant cost about 3 times what the spec power plant (motor, speed control, and batteries) did.

Do those of you voting against the spec class actually own an open P tunnel? How many people do you personally know who have one?

Lohring Miller

 

[John Knight]

I am still wanting to make this race, Anyone want to sponsor me in some way to help make it possible
I would love to see a Spec class, but I would also Love to see and Open 'P' rather than just plain 'Open'. Either way I will have boats to suit and its all about what the majority run.

It will be VERY interesting to see WHO votes and then ACTUALLY SHOWS UP.

Cheers

Kris

I would certainly hope that only those that are voting plan are on attending the race and run the class(es). It is not fair to those that are planning to attend for someone to vote their preference and are not going to come. This race has always been for the racers that attend and it should remain to be so. If you are not coming, do NOT vote. We are interested in your comments, but do not vote.

 

[ggeiselman]

I voted for the spec class. I will be there!

 

[Chris Wittrig]

The difference in cost between a P spec tunnel and an open P tunnel is huge. I have one of each. The P spec boat is very similar in size and performance to a 3.5 stock tunnel. It costs about the same as a stock 3.5 nitro boat. Though an open P power plant can be used on that hull to push speeds into the 60 mph area, the hull is too small for heat racing at that speed. My open P tunnel is an extra light Leecraft XT-460 7.5 size hull. From very brief testing in rough conditions, it seems about as fast as a 7.5 stock nitro boat. The power plant cost about 3 times what the spec power plant (motor, speed control, and batteries) did.
Do those of you voting against the spec class actually own an open P tunnel? How many people do you personally know who have one?

Lohring Miller

I completely understand the value of the Spec class if from no other perspective than affordability. What I do like as well, though, is the notion of an open class that allows ample opportunity for the spec boats to run, which will likely amount to the larger portion of the entries, but also encourages creative thinking and innovation that will be missing from this event if the nitro open class is taken away. Twin .21's, Twin .45's...we've seen these boats in the open class...how many people have those and how many ran a more "spec" nitro boat that was likely run an another class at the same event? It seems part of the intent of dropping the nitro open class was to open a new class that would not have the same boats entered as are being run in other classes. Why, then, put restraints on the class spec?

Just throwing ideas out there to see what others think.

 

[topfuel443]

Just to clarify, we have never offered a NITRO Open Class, it has always been merely "Open Tunnel". Didnt matter if it was nitro powered, gas, electric, or rubber band powered, you could run it as long as it was a tunnel, and had an outboard. Bottom line is, possibly removing the Open Tunnel class has nothing to do with being able to now offer an FE class, it is simply the result of dropping the class in which the FE guy could run in, and now we are trying to offer a better class for just FE boats. Those boats with twin .45's or with Mac 84 conversions can run in the E/F class, and twin 21's can run in the sport D or regular D class, depending on set-up. The only two negatives is that #1) The majority (there's that word again) of the racers agreed to do away with the open class because it is simply a repeat of the other classes we offered, and #2) we no longer had a class that FE guys could run in. The #2 is what we are tying to fix with figuring out which FE class to offer.

Not pickin on you Chris, just want to make sure everyone that may not have been at the race in the past or know about it, is fully aware of where we stand, and why the changes are needing to take place.

~James

 

[Chris Wittrig]

Just to clarify, we have never offered a NITRO Open Class, it has always been merely "Open Tunnel". Didnt matter if it was nitro powered, gas, electric, or rubber band powered, you could run it as long as it was a tunnel, and had an outboard. Bottom line is, possibly removing the Open Tunnel class has nothing to do with being able to now offer an FE class, it is simply the result of dropping the class in which the FE guy could run in, and now we are trying to offer a better class for just FE boats. Those boats with twin .45's or with Mac 84 conversions can run in the E/F class, and twin 21's can run in the sport D or regular D class, depending on set-up. The only two negatives is that #1) The majority (there's that word again) of the racers agreed to do away with the open class because it is simply a repeat of the other classes we offered, and #2) we no longer had a class that FE guys could run in. The #2 is what we are tying to fix with figuring out which FE class to offer.
Not pickin on you Chris, just want to make sure everyone that may not have been at the race in the past or know about it, is fully aware of where we stand, and why the changes are needing to take place.

~James

No pickin bein takin! I characterized it as nitro open since, well, that's pretty much what you had. If it looks like nitro and smells like nitro...

I do realize you can run twin .21's in .45 or twin .45's or .67's or greater in E/F, but also have a sense of whether those would be likely the best option to run in those classes. If a spec FE tunnel class is what's chosen I'm sure many, including me, would support it. I'd also support a class where unique ideas and experiments prevail. Perhaps having provisions that boats entered in open tunnel could not have been entered in other classes would have helped foster the uniqueness this specialty class, but you know what they say about coulda woulda shoulda and hindsight. :lol:

 

[rumrunner]

When was the vote taken to drop open for fe ?

i don't remeber voting at the world's.

where the people voting tunnel boaters?

just asking i like open because it gives me a chance, if i mess up.

i travel a long way and i just like to RACE !

thanks shane

 

[JeniJohnson]

I am still wanting to make this race, Anyone want to sponsor me in some way to help make it possible
I would love to see a Spec class, but I would also Love to see and Open 'P' rather than just plain 'Open'. Either way I will have boats to suit and its all about what the majority run.

It will be VERY interesting to see WHO votes and then ACTUALLY SHOWS UP.

Cheers

Kris

Cheers back. Hope ya' ll are having a great day. Get with me on sponsorship, got idea which might work. [email protected] thanks jeni

 

[Darin Jordan]

I would love to see a Spec class, but I would also Love to see and Open 'P' rather than just plain 'Open'.

Kris has the right idea...

P-Spec OPC and P-OPC is what should be offered...

The P-Spec boats are right at the same performance of your 3.5 Stock stuff, and would be roughly the same cost to build ($115.00 motor/ESC combo and a $200.00 battery pack, added to the lower unit and 3.5 hull of your choice...)...

The P-OPC boats would be considerably faster than anything you have with a 3.5 on it... Well into the 50's and likely faster... and they'd cost about $600-800 more to build... $300.00 motors... $265.00 ESC... $400+ in batteries...

That later point is why very few of them would be built and show up...

We FE'ers have first hand experience with this, which is why you see so many "spec" power system classes popping up...

Here is an example of a competitive P-Spec OPC (mine) that Jerry Dunlap snapped this weekend...

 

[larcor69]

guess I should have read a bit more prior to my vote on another class, not like I will be there or anything, but when I see 14 volt class I figured 4 cell Li-Po's where out due to the fact thats more than 14 volts!! sound's like a good fun race, and the rule's are pretty much much strait forward, an esc shouldnt have a limit though, they only channel power to the motor, motor size ,(KV rating) and voltage along with your hull size and weight should make for some great racing, Have Fun!!! maybe with the new AuqaCraft brushless Superior boat FE will really Take off this coming year!!

 

[Kris Flynn]

guess I should have read a bit more prior to my vote on another class, not like I will be there or anything, but when I see 14 volt class I figured 4 cell Li-Po's where out due to the fact thats more than 14 volts!! sound's like a good fun race, and the rule's are pretty much much strait forward, an esc shouldnt have a limit though, they only channel power to the motor, motor size ,(KV rating) and voltage along with your hull size and weight should make for some great racing, Have Fun!!! maybe with the new AuqaCraft brushless Superior boat FE will really Take off this coming year!!

Hey Darrin,

Slightly off topic but...Your Motor sits up WAY too high

Kris

 

[Darin Jordan]

Hey Darrin,
Slightly off topic but...Your Motor sits up WAY too high

Kris

It's down as low as it can go and still have coupler clearance... Will have to start hacking away at the Lawless to get it any lower... Handles great and wins a lot of races that way, however...

 

[lohring]

You forget that the batteries, the heaviest part of the power plant, are low and centrally located. No lead in the sponson tips to balabce the heavy motor. This concentration of weight near the center of gravity greatly reduces pitching in electric tunnels.

Lohring Miller

 

[JfromJAGs]

The perfect OPC electric motor would have a thicker, but hollow shaft, so you could stick the cable through the motor and fix it with a coupler ontop. I've seen this done with LMT motors and piano wire on a H&M micro tunnel. Should work well with cable and bigger motors too - if a motor manufacturer would use an appropriate tube as shaft. Maybe it would even be possible to erode a square cut into a thicker motor shaft.

If Aquacraft would release an electric version of the VS1 or even the TS3, then they may be able to push their motor manufacturer into something like this...

Joerg

 

[Darin Jordan]

If Aquacraft would release an electric version of the VS1 or even the TS3, then they may be able to push their motor manufacturer into something like this...
Joerg

Grim... Russ... You listening??? Hint-Hint!