Turbine Scales.

[lohring]

APBA already insures full size turbine boats. They've had a shortage of model boaters recently. A quick check of rules and costs will tell you why. NAMBA is trying to promote model boating with moderately restrictive rules and reasonable costs. That means we need to regulate racing conditions, model sizes, and power plants. Otherwise someone would want to race RC jet skis. I've been an APBA member and been involved in offshore and kilo record events. There's a strong economic reason to race models.

Lohring Miller

PS Read the last pages of the latest NAMBA Propwash for new restrictions for 2015.

 

[Todd Fleury]

ground_effect-4a.jpg

This is an example of what is NOT covered. Neither the hull type nor the power plant (either turbine or electric ducted fan) is listed in the rule book.

Synthar John Vianen.jpg

This is an example of a non rule book class that is covered since both the hull type (either gas catamaran or hydro) and engine are listed. The class, gas outboard tunnel, won't be run at the Nationals but can be run at local clubs and would be insured.

Lohring Miller

Yes, but if you read the rule book, it says:

Method of propulsion will be of the type that functions by propeller contact with the
water or air. Air prop driven boats will be limited to “1/2 A” or "A" class engines
only, see Section 10 – rule A.1. Boats propelled with air props must have the prop
shrouded, and must have an underwater rudder or skeg of at least one inch square.
Inertia reaction devices such as rockets or jets are prohibited.
The turbine engine is propeller driven.

 

[Al Waters]

Todd,

So that I can get a true understanding of where this disscussion is going, if you feel that the running of your turbine boat is covered and insureable under the NAMBA rule book, please contact by e-mail the entire NAMBA Executive Board and we can disscuss this. If I am off base with my question, then I apologize.

President Robert Holland - [email protected]

VP Ted McKay - [email protected]

Secretary Al Waters - [email protected]

Thank you very much,

Al Waters

 

[Todd Fleury]

Al,

I wish to run it as an exhibition class.

Todd

 

[Al Waters]

Todd,

an exhibition class is any class where the boat meets all requirements in the NAMBA rule book.

In regards to power supplied to our model boats, with Nitro it would be dissplacement, in FE it would be voltage, and Gas it would be dissplacement. Meeting all of these peramaters as well as size, weight, and the other listed requirements.

The only difference between an exhibition class and a recognized class is that the recognized class has to be named in the rule book and it can set records on a regulation course.

I will just come right out an say it. Turbine power is not covered in our rule book.

Thanks,

Al Waters

 

[Rokieboater]

ground_effect-4a.jpg

This is an example of what is NOT covered. Neither the hull type nor the power plant (either turbine or electric ducted fan) is listed in the rule book.

Synthar John Vianen.jpg

This is an example of a non rule book class that is covered since both the hull type (either gas catamaran or hydro) and engine are listed. The class, gas outboard tunnel, won't be run at the Nationals but can be run at local clubs and would be insured.

Lohring Miller

Yes, but if you read the rule book, it says:

Method of propulsion will be of the type that functions by propeller contact with the
water or air. Air prop driven boats will be limited to “1/2 A” or "A" class engines
only, see Section 10 – rule A.1. Boats propelled with air props must have the prop
shrouded, and must have an underwater rudder or skeg of at least one inch square.
Inertia reaction devices such as rockets or jets are prohibited.
The turbine engine is propeller driven.

Todd,

The rule you quoted reads that air prop driven boats will be limited to 1/2A or A class engines. Does your turbine have a displacement of either of these motor displacements?

Here is the Engine Classification rule. Does the turbine you wish to have NAMBA insure fall into any of these categories?

A. ENGINE CLASSIFICATION

1. Internal combustion glow engines:

Class Displacement

1/2 A 0 - 2.115 cc (0 - 0.129 cu.in.)

A 2.116 - 3.509 cc (0.130 - 0.214 cu. in.)

B 3.51 - 7.509 cc (0.215 - 0.458 cu. in.)

C 7.51 - 11.009 cc (0.459 - 0.671 cu. in.)

X 11.01 – 35.000 cc (0.672 – 2.136 cu. in.)

2. Internal combustion spark engines - see Section 27

3. Electric Motors – see Section 28

And on top of all of that our insurance underwriter will not insure the turbine motors at this time. As was mentioned in e-mails and phone conversations earlier this year with you, the turbine is not a NAMBA legal motor. Now you guys may want to find loop holes in the rule book, try and exploit them or just understand that people are trying to help you out and let you know they are not insured. You can ignore that and run your turbine and if something happens try and make a claim. Chances are it will be denied. All that want to punish the rulebook and tell the BOD members they are wrong should heed the info given and try and make a positive change. The people informing you that these are not insured are not telling you to stop with your quest to have new technology introduced into our hobby. Please by all means you should move forward in the proper way. But trying to debate that here on this thread is ridiculous. Make as many statements as you want, read into the rule book as much as you want, demean the powers to be, but it is still NOT insured per NAMBA.

 

[T.S.Davis]

Well, after about 72,000 words of text between Al and I ........I think I understand now. Man has the patience of a saint.

An analogy is in order.

Say you need car insurance. You call the insurance company and they'll want to know what your driving. You can't tell them "it doesn't matter, I'm going to obey the law" (safety rules in our case). They want to know what they're potential exposure is. The rate will vary based on the vehicle. If you're driving a Honda Prius the price is very different than if you're driving a Ferrari 458. You're still going to obey the law with both cars (safety rules again) but the potential for catastrophic error is a wee bit higher with the Ferrari.

In NAMBA's case they asked for insurance and told the underwriter basically.......we run this, this, these, and those (I think there's 4 types) up to "X" amount of power, size, etc. Took it right out of our rule book. So the insurance is written to insure what the organization said we were going to do. Even if somebody took the time to develop a turbine class, NAMBA would still have to change the policy to include them which may drive the price to the moon. Or worse make the organization un-insurable. Not because turbines are going to kill us all but because the insurance company might feel there is higher inherent risk.

NAMBA doesn't feel it should have to spell all that out. The safety rules are there to remind us of how not to hurt ourselves. They aren't the only rules though.

I'm sure that IMPBA is similar.

Posted this on OSE too.

 

[Keith Halverson]

It's a process be waived for flight. Experience required, Inspection, sign-off's, ect. I guess this would be a baseline or one to look at. Something to work with.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-c.pdf

 

[julianconde]

It's a process be waived for flight. Experience required, Inspection, sign-off's, ect. I guess this would be a baseline or one to look at. Something to work with.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-c.pdf

Don F. and i have spoken about it before. To me its way too risky and no matter what you do to make it safe if anything goes wrong people can get hurt or a huge fire will happen..