Trying to start a brand new OS21RG-M

[dannyual767]

Okay, I know this is a nitro forum but nitro sure is a pain! I've never had much luck running nitro but I love RC boats and I just can't give up on nitro.

Today was the first time in 6 yrs that I tried to start a nitro boat. I've got a Sullivan Model 4 starter hooked up to a car battery and a super hot 10,000mah D cell nimh glow starter. The boat is an old school Dumas SK Daddle that I had a lot of fun building. Engine is a brand spankin' new OS21RG-M with an OS #8 plug. I also tried a #3 as well as a McCoy 59. Pipe is a super quiet Irwin pipe. Super quiet! I know this is a small engine for this boat but I think Dumas' original intent was an engine putting out about .1 hp :lol: :lol: .

Anyway, the OS instructions say to start with the needle valve 2 1/2 turns out so thats what I did. After about 45 mins, finally got the engine to start. It would run would the glow driver hooked up but the rpm would drop when I removed it. If I tried to open the throttle (even very slowly) the engine would die. Restart was usually difficult because the engine would flood and the belt would slip. Sometimes it would restart immediately, other times it would take 10 mins of fighting.

I tried leaning out the needle valve, all the way down to 2 turns out. It didn't change anything. I tried the two other glow plugs that I mentioned and they didn't help. The engine just won't run without the glow driver on the plug.

OS instructions say the cause is:

1. Mixture too rich

2. Mismatch of glow plug and fuel

On the other hand, the instructions say that the #8 plug is good with any %nitro fuel :unsure: .

This may be part of the problem: older 20% nitro fuel. However, it ran just fine in my wife's .61 size airplane engine.

Here are some pics so you can tell me if something doesn't look right.

As you can see, its not like my tanks are higher than the carb creating a siphoning effect, right? Why would my engine flood so easily?

And yes, thats a Hello Kitty bandage that my little girl put on the boat!

 

[f41stryker]

how old is the fuel? If you're using it for an airplane you don't have model boat specific fuel, that's where I'd start first, probably some O'donnell 50% nitro boat mix. Check your fuel filter for any crud blocking fuel. I'm sure others might chime in also.

 

[153stars]

I had some new 21s that didn't want to start" at first" unless I loosened the glow plug a bit even though the starter was cranking the them over fine , but they clearenced to .007. Try the bump method just get the starter spinning a bit and use short bursts on the motor. Let a little fuel in and clamp off the fuel line when you feel your getting too much and try to burn that fuel up. The motor is spinning counter clockwise when looking from the rear right??? Did someone dismantle the motor and get the sleave turned around. Try higher idle to get it to start as well . If it has a low speed needle as soon as you open it up it might be flooding.You can try a heatgun or hairdryer to heat the head used by car racers to break in their motors. All and all sounds rich if it dies after you pull the glow driver ,all the plugs you tried were pretty hot compared to a #9 or k&b hp. Nothing helps get some fresh 40- 60% fuel.

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Running in tight new engines can be a pain at times. It's obviously rich which is what you want while breaking it in, but it makes getting it running a pain. Short term what I'd suggest is to wind the low speed needle in some(the one on the carb arm side) to make it a bit easier on you. Either that or set the idle open a lot more. The suggested needle settings don't take into account the fuel pressure, which is determined by your exhaust system.

On low nitro - hot plugs are the way to go. OS#8 should be fine as long as it's new and not one thats been used previously in another engine and seen a fair amount of use.

Also here's a little tip that should save you a lot of time and stress after it floods and stalls. Try this;

pinch off the fuel line (I use a pair of Haemostats), remove the plug, tip any excess fuel out of the pipe, put a rag over the glow plug hole and crank it over on the starter for a few seconds.

Then put the plug back in and try to start it while the fuel line is still clamped off. You should find it fires easily. once it fires, remove the clamp on the line. if it starts to fuel up again, squeeze the fuel line between fingers to pinch it off until the rpm picks up.

If all else fails, try some fresh fuel.

 

[f41stryker]

I'd probably ditch that double tank setup as well-that could be problematic for you. Take a heat gun and heat the engine up for a minute or so, if you have a temp gauge, get it around 190-210F and it should fire up. If it's super-rich try leaning your low speed out a little and use the turn the idle adjustment screw in a little to help raise the idle a little.

 

[LarryConrad]

Were you turning the engine over in the correct direction? Keep the hopper tank, when you do get it to run it will do so more consistantly with it.

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

Seem wrong place pressure fitting hole on Iwrin pipe cause increase lean suppose Iwrin's four welding move to hole about 1 inch ( flat pipe)

 

[dannyual767]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to have to visit a hobby shop the next time I'm down in Jacksonville and try to find some fresh fuel.

posted by laedco,

Were you turning the engine over in the correct direction? Keep the hopper tank, when you do get it to run it will do so more consistantly with it.

posted by 153stars,

....The motor is spinning counter clockwise when looking from the rear right??? Did someone dismantle the motor and get the sleave turned around. Try higher idle to get it to start as well . If it has a low speed needle as soon as you open it up it might be flooding...

As far as whether or not my electric starter is turning in the right direction, I'm pretty sure that it is. I looked at my prop and I can tell that the engine is indeed spinning in the correct direction; ccw viewed from the rear. Nobody has ever taken the engine apart. As far as that low speed needle, I've got it set as per the OS instructions but I guess that I could screw it in (cw) to lean it out some.

posted by Tim Duggan,

On low nitro - hot plugs are the way to go. OS#8 should be fine as long as it's new and not one thats been used previously in another engine and seen a fair amount of use.
Also here's a little tip that should save you a lot of time and stress after it floods and stalls. Try this;

pinch off the fuel line (I use a pair of Haemostats), remove the plug, tip any excess fuel out of the pipe, put a rag over the glow plug hole and crank it over on the starter for a few seconds.

I just went out into the garage and found an old pair of hemostats to use for my next engine starting exercise!

All three plugs that I tried were brand new and still in the package. I think that I messed up on trying to clear the engine of excess fuel. I removed the glow plug and put a rag over the hole while spinning the engine but I never pinched off the fuel line. Thats why I kept blowing fuel out of the glow plug hole no matter how much I spun the engine over .

 

[dannyual767]

how old is the fuel? If you're using it for an airplane you don't have model boat specific fuel, that's where I'd start first, probably some O'donnell 50% nitro boat mix. Check your fuel filter for any crud blocking fuel. I'm sure others might chime in also.

Yeah, its old h34r: . I do have some actual boat fuel but its old as well. It has been sealed well, though so I'll give it a try since I know I won't be down in JAX to buy fuel until much later this month.

The filter is brand new. I took it out of the package earlier today.

 

[dannyual767]

Seem wrong place pressure fitting hole on Iwrin pipe cause increase lean suppose Iwrin's four welding move to hole about 1 inch ( flat pipe)

Allan, I bought the pipe used and that was where the pipe fitting was when I got it. I figured that I'd at least try it as is first. Right now everything is way too rich.

 

[M@MRacing]

If you go to a McCoy plug you want the McCoy #9 not 59 the 59 is a cold plug also like they said loosen the plug some and fresh fuel you should be ok.

 

[dannyual767]

If you go to a McCoy plug you want the McCoy #9 not 59 the 59 is a cold plug also like they said loosen the plug some and fresh fuel you should be ok.

According to the Tower Hobbies website:

This is the McCoy MC-59 Standard Long Plug (No Idle Bar) with a Hot

element that's designed for use with Low to Medium Nitro Fuels, perfect

for Helicopters.

MC-9

This is a Cold, Standard Long plugs especially designed for pattern flying,

ducted fan engines or any application where you're using 25% or higher nitro

fuel. This is their Racing plug Without an idle bar.

 

[Jerry Wyss]

Those pipes don't evacuate raw fuel worth a ****, and its up hill the whole way

on your exhaust system. During rich start-ups the fuel is probably piling up in

the Ex system giving you a flooded problem.

Oh and Hi Danny!!

 

[dannyual767]

Those pipes don't evacuate raw fuel worth a ****, and its up hill the whole way

on your exhaust system. During rich start-ups the fuel is probably piling up in

the Ex system giving you a flooded problem.

Oh and Hi Danny!!

Is there anything that I can do about this to help? It was nothing but flooding problems yesterday. I'm not even looking forward to fighting it again .

 

[M@MRacing]

Anyone out there using McCoys and racing are using the McCoy 9s the 59 would be for cold days. You want to use a McCoy 9 or a ODonnel blue plug

 

[Jerry Wyss]

Those pipes don't evacuate raw fuel worth a ****, and its up hill the whole way

on your exhaust system. During rich start-ups the fuel is probably piling up in

the Ex system giving you a flooded problem.

Oh and Hi Danny!!

Is there anything that I can do about this to help? It was nothing but flooding problems yesterday. I'm not even looking forward to fighting it again .

Try to get the header rotated down so its at least down hill to the pipe. Rotate the

pipe so the exhaust exit at the bottom. And try dump any raw fuel out the end that may be piling up between start attempts. Pinching the fuel line (like Tim said) is good but the pipe can't partly full of fuel while pinching.

 

[dannyual767]

Today, after fighting it for about 30 mins, I finally got it to start and run without the glow driver on B) . Before I started, I closed the low speed screw about 2 turns and I pinched off the fuel line with my hemostats until I was ready to start the engine. At first, the engine didn't get any/enough fuel. I opened the low speed screw one more turn and then the engine fired up and ran even without the glow driver on the plug. The plug was the McCoy 59 that I had no luck with yesterday. Fuel was older, but tightly sealed 20% boat fuel.

I hooked up the garden hose and ran the engine for several minutes and shut it down. It restarted pretty easily each time after that. Each time I shut it down, I pinched off the fuel line to keep unwanted fuel from flooding the engine. Maybe I really don't have to do that but I didn't want to go through yesterday's flooding headaches again.

I'm going to try starting the boat again over the next couple of days to see if it is any easier. This engine seems to be difficult to start but once it does, it subsequently starts easily.

 

[dannyual767]

posted by Jerry,

Try to get the header rotated down so its at least down hill to the pipe. Rotate thepipe so the exhaust exit at the bottom. And try dump any raw fuel out the end that may be piling up between start attempts. Pinching the fuel line (like Tim said) is good but the pipe can't partly full of fuel while pinching.

I can rotate the header down only slightly. There is an additional mounting hole but the amount will be slight and gravity will still be pulling fuel/oil in the header back down into the cylinder.

I can rotate the pipe to put the exhaust exit at the bottom. Pinching the fuel line with my hemostats seemed to work pretty good today. I'll keep doing it.

 

[153stars]

If your pinching the line to kill it your taking to a too lean condition you can pinch it off then quickly put your finger over the carb to kill it . If you want to break it in on the bench some , you want about 165f for the first tank at the head button"mostly cooled by fuel".Can you borrow a temp gun?Cool it slightly with water through it, some heat will expand the parts the way they should be.Google heat cycle method.Blubbering rich and too cold will cause excessive wear also ,you want heat for expansion

 

[dannyual767]

If your pinching the line to kill it your taking to a too lean condition you can pinch it off then quickly put your finger over the carb to kill it . If you want to break it in on the bench some , you want about 165f for the first tank at the head button"mostly cooled by fuel".Can you borrow a temp gun?Cool it slightly with water through it, some heat will expand the parts the way they should be.Google heat cycle method.Blubbering rich and too cold will cause excessive wear also ,you want heat for expansion

No, I'm not pinching the line to kill it. I use my finger over the carb to kill it. I'm pinching the fuel line when the engine is not running or if I'm trying to clear a flooded engine. I had so much of a flooding problem yesterday that I started to wonder if fuel was gravity feeding from the tank (siphoning.) In my posted pictures, you can see that I paid a lot of attention to not getting the tanks above the carb for this very reason. However, the pinching is just to remove any doubt. I certainly didn't have any flooding problems today but that may be because I leaned my low speed mixture screw.

It was rich running today but not blubbering rich. There was some smoke and throttle response was there but not crisp throttle response. So...I think that I was on the rich side but not too much.