Teaching An Old Dog New Tricks...

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...Hey Duane....I'm an old K&B man from way back when. Used to run them in hydros back in the 80's. Never raced but had a ball with my podnuhs. I'm still wondering what a Keely turbo head is. If someone could post some pics I sure would appreciate it. Good luck and God bless!
I think the "turbo head" just uses a tapered seat "turbo" plug, but not sure... Are the Keely heads currently available?

Duane
Don't think that there still available.

I have the documentation that came with my Keeley Turbo Heads.

Look a lot like K&B 3.5 SS Head, But they were being made way before K&B 3.5 SS motors.

Knock- Off By K&B Maybe!

They used standard plugs, were cut for zero head clearence, with no head shims.

Which made it easy to get a known head clearence.

Provided the manufactor, had good, QC.

K&B? HAHAHAHAHAHA :D :D :D

Anyway Had a wide cut for exaust port, several narow cuts for boost and bypass ports.

Enhanced cylinder scavenging permiting more fuel to be burned more efficiently. (from instructions)

I myself, had Good Luck with these heads.

Dave Hobson :)
 
Don't think that there still available.I have the documentation that came with my Keeley Turbo Heads.

Look a lot like K&B 3.5 SS Head, But they were being made way before K&B 3.5 SS motors.

Knock- Off By K&B Maybe!

They used standard plugs, were cut for zero head clearence, with no head shims.

Which made it easy to get a known head clearence.

Provided the manufactor, had good, QC.

K&B? HAHAHAHAHAHA :D :D :D

Anyway Had a wide cut for exaust port, several narow cuts for boost and bypass ports.

Enhanced cylinder scavenging permiting more fuel to be burned more efficiently. (from instructions)

I myself, had Good Luck with these heads.

Dave Hobson :)
Hmm... So the Keeley head had to be keyed to face the appropriate ports? I bet they're a somewhat sought-after head now... I guess I could fit a K&B SS head then. So what's the K&B SX head like? Anything special there?

Duane
 
hay Duane i under stand about a bone i have been know to take any thing I'm hungry about KBs 3.5 mostly

an some thing about the first picture you posted Jack Garcia? wrote an article about KB 3.5 out boards titled California Hop ups in an old RC boat modeler that talked about that set up you took out the carb an put in aKB speed needle in its place but you had to drill the block for pressure an then a exhaust throttle in i will try to rattle his chain if no bones from him i will try to find that article.

is the mods for piped engines that work for 1 an not the other or most mods just help an engine breath better any how an as for that OBNut guy goes i just wish i could a 100000000000 of the stuff he does on a computer very help full on tunnel boats too thanks again Mark an Duane for starting this post

Marty
Thanks Marty.

Yup I still have that article plus drawings. I'll look em up and I'll try to post the article and drawings tomorrow.
 
The motor pictured was copied from an article written up in 92 by Lee Garcia. I called him shortly after reading it and we talked about motors. He gave me advise on what to do with a K&B 3.5 OB motor. Back then, the ABS Sprint was the ticket and that was his test boat. I could never get the ABS to run correctly, even with a stock 13mm motor. Motor was put on a wood Sprint and a wood Hot Shot IV. None could handle the motor. It was the first and only time I've heard a motor second stage. The motor sat for many years before I built a 29" WOF that would handle the power. Hope to put that motor on the offset 29" I built over the winter to see what it can do. Really, I want to hear it double stage again..

Marty, glad to hear some of this information is helping you and others out.
 
The motor pictured was copied from an article written up in 92 by Lee Garcia....
There is some great info here; I can't wait to see that article!

My motor pictured here which shows the "speed needle" in the modded front case is actually one I did around '91-'92, after seeing similar engines at Legg Lake, here in SoCal. I don't remember seeing those run back then, but just saw 'em in the pits. I brought the image back home in my head, and massaged the case to look like those I saw there. I seem to remember a guy named Norm Teague (sp?) having something like that, and I was told it ran pretty well. I still haven't fired this one up, but I'm hoping it'll work OK when I do get around to trying it.

Thanks to all who've posted!

Duane
 
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Duane,

Surprised you didn't run into Lee and his family back in 91-92 as he was around that area at that time. He later moved to Texas I believe shortly afterward. I'll have to dig up the mag and post some information. The mods on the sleeve came from Lee.

Here are the mod's from Jack:

modftengine.jpg
 
Duane,

Surprised you didn't run into Lee and his family back in 91-92 as he was around that area at that time...
I may have met Lee then, but I wasn't racing at the time. I just hung out at a couple of places now & then, and soaked up whatever info I could. I went to a couple of local club meetings (Drive Dogs?) held at Radio Boat (from memory), and learned what I could about setting up a B mono I was building... The boat ran pretty well, but I never actually raced at NAMBA events like I'd wanted to. A couple of kids later, and now I want to play with boats again (and hoping my 10 year old son will).

Duane
 
Don't think that there still available.

I have the documentation that came with my Keeley Turbo Heads.

Look a lot like K&B 3.5 SS Head, But they were being made way before K&B 3.5 SS motors.

Knock- Off By K&B Maybe!

They used standard plugs, were cut for zero head clearence, with no head shims.

Which made it easy to get a known head clearence.

Provided the manufactor, had good, QC.

K&B? HAHAHAHAHAHA :D :D :D

Anyway Had a wide cut for exaust port, several narow cuts for boost and bypass ports.

Enhanced cylinder scavenging permiting more fuel to be burned more efficiently. (from instructions)

I myself, had Good Luck with these heads.

Dave Hobson :)

Actually they're still available from Gary Preusse up until the end of May, due to personal reasons I've had to shut the business down after that date. Gary can be reached at 630-279-2451. Our K&B 3.5 Turbo Head was our best seller and I know you won't be dissapointed with one. :)
 
Duane,

Surprised you didn't run into Lee and his family back in 91-92 as he was around that area at that time. He later moved to Texas I believe shortly afterward. I'll have to dig up the mag and post some information. The mods on the sleeve came from Lee.

Here are the mod's from Jack:

modftengine.jpg
Here's the article that goes with those drawings Mark. And thanks for posting those.

CALIFORNIA MOD

This modification for your K&B 3.5 is inexpensive and easy to do. It's for those of you who can't afford the expense of a tuned pipe and special carburetor. The "Cal Mod" is not only economical, it also greatly enhances your engines performance. All it takes is some much less expensive accessories and some bench work on your part.

This method of modifying the K&B 3.5 goes back to the late 70's, when it was introduced in NAMBA district 19. (Southern California in particular). A tuned pipe for an O.B. engine was unknown at the time, and the use of an inboard tuned pipe was out of the question. Too much overhang, that would throw off the balance was the popular belief. So we decided to enlarge the exhaust area in the lower unit to relieve the exhaust restriction. By doing this we eliminated the source for pressure to the fuel tank. So

now we had to find a new source. The obvious place was from the engine itself. After a couple of tries at different locations on the crankcase, we settled on drawing from one of the mounting lugs. This produced sufficient pressure for full throttle running, but was way too much at idle speeds causing the engine to easily over flood and quit. The carburetor was collecting too much fuel. The solution was to remove the carburetor, and install a K&B speed needle valve assembly. By removing the carburetor, the excess fuel that was flooding the engine could now spill out of the short venturi. To control the engine speed, we installed a slide throttle that at the time only K&B was manufacturing. Since then, there are only two sources for outboard slide throttle assemblies. They are available in kit form from: 1.) Prather products, Mod engine kit #8400 2.) 707 Specialties, kit # 3.5 ETA.

The "Cal Mod" increases top RPM by quite a margin. As an example, my best older style engine, (10mm crankshaft), bolted to a hydro, was tached at 23,000 RPM at the 1982 Namba Nationals. The time was 84.70 seconds. A national record on the NAMBA 9/10 mile, 5 lap oval course. With the introduction of the larger 13mm crankshaft by K&B, the speeds and times have been enhanced. The most recent record is 75.07 sec. by Mark Grimm of the Los Angeles area.

The "Cal Mod" is still preferred and very popular in Southern California to this day, and is widely used in the A (3.5) modified O.B. tunnel and hydro classes.

DIS-ASSEMBLY:

Dis-assemble the engine and lower unit completely. Remove the carburetor and set screws from the front plate, as well as the exhaust adapter from the crankcase. Moving to the lower unit, first remove the prop shaft assembly, remembering that it has a lefthanded thread. The pressure fitting is no longer of any use, remove it.

MODIFY THE LOWER UNIT:

Using a file, or a dremel type tool with a rotary cutter, remove the material that forms the four exhaust holes on the lower unit. Remove enough material from both halves to make the new exhaust outlet at least 7/32" wide. Sand smooth and polish the entire exhaust channel. The back edges of the new exhaust outlet may become ragged. Smooth them with a fine tooth file for esthetics. (Refer to the lower unit drawings.)

This next modification is strictly your option, but I recommend it for added performance. It involves removing area from the skeg, and it will take some careful cutting, shaping, and sharpening. Using a hack saw, band saw or Dremel, remove material from the front of the skeg starting at the top leading edge and leaving it 1/2" at the very bottom. Using a course file to start with, carefully, and equally, remove material from both sides of the skeg so the leading edge will not become off center. Smooth with a finer tooth file or course grit sand paper, finish sand with wet 320 or 400 grit wet or dry, leaving the leading edge fairly sharp and smooth. Comment: This modification reduces drag on the skeg adding to your engines performance

Wash both halves, re-assemble the lower unit completely and set aside.

CRANKCASE PRESSURE TAP:

A special 4-40 thread pressure fitting is included in the exhaust throttle kits available from the two manufacturers mentioned. Drilling and tapping on the crankcase is required to accept the pressure fitting. Hold the crankcase in a small vice and drill a # 43 hole in the center of the left engine mounting lug. This is definitely the most difficult part of the Cal modification. Be extremely careful here, the lug is fairly narrow and the hole must be absolutely centered. If you are not confident that you can do it, I suggest that you get some help. After the hole is drilled, counter sink it fairly deep. This will allow the pressure fitting to seat completely. Thread the hole with a 4-40 Tap.

Caution! When installing, do not over tighten the pressure fitting, it may break off.

To remove aluminum chips, wash the crankcase in hot soapy water, and dry.

Re-assemble the engine completely and before joining it to the lower unit, install the slide throttle on the crankcase and the needle valve assembly to the front plate. A good needle valve setting to start with is about 3 1/2 turns open.

Good Luck and good racing
 
Very cool. Thanks Jack!

I'd never seen the article; only a few engines modified that way, some with tuned pipes. I figured if it worked on outboards without pipes, then the speed needle and "venturified" front case should work as well on an inboard with a good pipe. I'm hpoing to gather all the info for choice modifications here, so I (we) can put together the hottest & most bulletproof (stop rolling your eyes..) K&B 3.5s possible.

Actually they're still available from Gary Preusse up until the end of May, due to personal reasons I've had to shut the business down after that date. Gary can be reached at 630-279-2451. Our K&B 3.5 Turbo Head was our best seller and I know you won't be dissapointed with one. :)
Terry, thank you too! I'll give Gary a call.

Hey all; time for a rod question... Since I think availability of RPM rods isn't what it used to be, what's next best for the K&Bs? Which of K&Bs own rods were best, and which ones best avoided? How did the old McCoy rods for the K&B 3.5 compare? So far with actual K&B rods, I've seen a cheap looking one with K&B cast on the side, stout looking rods which resemble RPM, but look blasted (or otherwise finished), rods with the faces of their beam hollowed out, and round beam rods. My guess is to choose the ones that most closely resemble the RPM, but I'd guess that they're also the heaviest. Which did you all have the best luck with? Also, what other aftermarket rods were around?

Duane
 
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:D All right Jack you the man hay Duane i think Jack an Mark have dogs at home because these 2 sure have been throwing out a lot of bones lately cant help with the rods? iam sure taking a lot of notes hear lately Thank you all an mostly Tom an to International waters for a kick ass place to be an none better

Marty B)
 
...Thank you all an mostly Tom an to International waters for a kick ass place to be an none better
Marty B)
I'm glad Tom went for the full web hosting package; it's info like this that needs to be preserved for the new boaters, as well as for the old guys who just can't remember... :blink:

Duane
 
:D All right Jack you the man hay Duane i think Jack an Mark have dogs at home because these 2 sure have been throwing out a lot of bones lately cant help with the rods? iam sure taking a lot of notes hear lately Thank you all an mostly Tom an to International waters for a kick ass place to be an none better

Marty B)
You welcome fer sure Marty. My pleasure.
 
Right with ya Jack, glad to pass along what little I know.

As for rods, I chatted with Rod Geraghty just last week about rods for a older K&B 7.5 OB. Rod stated the K&B rods, after the move to Ca., are just as good as aftermarket ones. The ones to stay away from are those that look like "I" beems.
 
Right with ya Jack, glad to pass along what little I know.

As for rods, I chatted with Rod Geraghty just last week about rods for a older K&B 7.5 OB. Rod stated the K&B rods, after the move to Ca., are just as good as aftermarket ones. The ones to stay away from are those that look like "I" beems.
Are you referring to the "T" bone rods as some like to call them?

~Mitch
 
Right with ya Jack, glad to pass along what little I know.

As for rods, I chatted with Rod Geraghty just last week about rods for a older K&B 7.5 OB. Rod stated the K&B rods, after the move to Ca., are just as good as aftermarket ones. The ones to stay away from are those that look like "I" beems.
Are you referring to the "T" bone rods as some like to call them?

~Mitch
My HOT setup in 1981 used a Picco piston, sleeve, rod and wrist pin. Only minor machining of the K&B case was needed (The Picco sleeve was slightly thicker). This in combination with much Time/Area work, a well kept secret at that time, (My earliest graph that I can find now is dated 6-22-78). This set up won the District 19 points championship, ran within 1 MPH of the SAW record in a heat race boat and won the A_Hydro class at the Amarillo NAMBA nationals. :D
 
Are you referring to the "T" bone rods as some like to call them?

~Mitch
Actually, Rod called them "H" rods. If you cut the rod in half, it would look like a "H" when looking from the end. I've always heard them called "I" beams myself.
 
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K&B 3.5 rod study:

rods.jpg


Top is a RPM, below that a McCoy (actually short; for use with McCoy piston - lower pin height), bottom left to right is early cast(?) K&B, then more stout rod, then H (or I) beam, then round beam. Were there others as well? What's the current rod from MECOA/K&B look like?

Duane
 
jack,

what is the decible rating with your set up(opening up the halves) and could you use a pipe.

thanks

chris
Chris,

Gotta admit that the mod does create more noise. I would guess around 95db. And yes, a tuned pipe can be used with the slide throttle. However, there is some leakage in the throttle that will slightly inhibit the performance of the pipe.
 
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