Sure seems dead around here.

[julianconde]

Well this thread took a 360 degree turn to the bottomless pit.

 

[Kris Flynn]

Wow Bill, Chill Man

I know you are not showing the whole picture...some secret **** been photo shopped out...I got a good eye for that

 

[Bill Britton]

He pissed me off man.

LOL I don't even know how to photo shop.

Like I said Kris. It's all in the shape and design of the sponson.

 

[brad nichols]

A boat is a boat is a boat! Be it a Mono, Hydro, Cat or Tunnel! They all have a generic shape but it is a lot of testing that make a design a winner. It comes down to changing of angles and shapes and testing. We have so many variables with water, air, power, props, driver, you name it as it all comes into play. One day a boat works flawlessly and the next it doesn't. What changed?? I think that the designs out there all have their day and the designers put forth a great product for us and the hobby. IMO In the end it all comes down to it's a HOBBY TO BE AND BE FUN. I know that as designers you want your's to be winners all the time as the saying goes WHAT WINS ON SUNDAY SELLS ON MONDAY

Thanks to all the designers from boats to engines and props and all the other hardware we use!!

Brad

 

[Carl Van Houten]

I'm obviously a late comer to this discussion. As a former builder of Tommy's designs, I admit loving the boats. I still have an XT-120 that I plan to race as a P limited tunnel at my club. However, the power from first nitro engines and then electrics has steadily increased. The Xt-460 is easy to drive in the low 50 mph area but requires increasing skill as you get to 60 mph. I've watched some excellent drivers set two lap and heat race records with the boat, but Carl's newer designs starting with the Hornet handle the more powerful engines better. The Lynx was a real break through with high angle sponsons that deal with rough water better and still turn well. Darin Jordan's Lynx is one of the fastest heat race tunnels around.

The XT-460 is still a great hull and will win tunnel races in many events. However it doesn't dominate the larger tunnel classes like it once did. As an example the XT-460 won all the stock and modified tunnel classes in both the 7.5 and 11 cc displacements at the 2003 NAMBA Nationals. It was second in most of them as well. Leecraft also dominated the 3.5 cc tunnel classes there. My statement in 2006 is probably still true today:

"Over the years Leecraft has probably won more tunnel classes at the NAMBA Nationals than any other manufacturer."

Lohring Miller

Thank you Lohring. I am hoping my new 7.5 O/B Tunnel will weed out some undesirable traits that inevitably come with the added performance of the new NR46. After this change I plan to pull out my old school Savage that so many people want me to build again and make some changes to it as well. Then it wil be time to rest for awhile. I have had one project after another lately and although its been exciting to finally do these things that I have wanted to do, I need some time to just enjoy racing for a while. Maybe one day I we will see your name on the list to try one of these new boats.

There should be a lot of new stuff hitting the track this spring!

 

[RonShaw]

Lohring,

That was a great post. Let it be known, the Leecraft XT460 is absolutely still one of the most competitive 40/60 tunnels available today!! My XT 460 won the 40 tunnel class at the last two IMPBA nationals, and won the US1 last year. Jimmy Johnsons 40 tunnel built around the same Leecraft 460 design, won this year. I think that proves the case. Availability is one of the only reasons many people had moved to different Tunnel designs over the years. Since I purchased the molds from Lanza, I have sold over 50 hulls in 8 momths. I think availability of hulls was affecting all of our tunnel classes. As Carl mentioned earlier, since I started selling his 20 size tunnels exclusively, I have sold over 70 Lynxs and Taboos. Tunnel classes are going to be steadily growing at this rate of sales. I also think having all of the components needed to build a tunnel, including lowers pipes and engines, is helping as well.

Tommy is also correct that the new Novarossi engines make it much easier for all of us to be competitive. Back in the day I can tell you we went through tons of cranks, piston and sleeves, and head buttons to get anywhere close to 60 mph in heat racing speed. Today bolt on a stock Nova and a carbon pipe and a 1450 prop, and youre close as soon if you throw it in the water. You have to hand it to Tommy. He did it with a K&B and it has taken many many years to break those records. Id like to see someone try to do it today like Tommy did, with a K&B LOL I can say the same about Kentley Porter. The Sport and Oval records using the Van Houten Lynx tunnels he set initially with a stock OS outboard engine. He set the SAW with a Novarossi and upped it many times and his records held for years untl it too was broken with a Novarossi last year. His oval record using that stock OS setup also held until last year. That record too was broken with the Novarossi. As in Tommys case, I would also like to see someone go back and break that record using the stock OS like Kentley did. These new engines we have today will continue to push speeds higher as the Van Houtens, Flynns, Brittons, and other tunnel designers continue to push their designs around these new powerplants. Lets have fun guys.

 

[Bill Britton]

"F" bombs in my previous posts have been dropped for civility.

 

[HTV Boats]

I started running outboards in the late 70;s and since then tunnel designs have come a long way. Tommy Lee is the "Babe Ruth" of tunnel racing for sure. That said there is still room for improvement in hulls. Some of the record holding boats are one off hulls that were never available and not heat raced. Carl's record hulls have excelled with boats you will see in heat racing. Shawn's Visions we set a couple records with are hulls that have run heats with for many years. I know the new engines are superior to the K&B's but over the years I have seen some K&B's that were very fast. One thing in oval records to remember is Horsepower in nice but cornering speed is what sets records. Props are also improving year after year. Good to see new boats being produced and sold. Wish we had a few more down here in Florida as we have to travel north for competition these days.

Mic

 

[julianconde]

"F" bombs in my previous posts have been dropped for civility.

someone is trying to become relevant after being irrelevant for a very long time ill leave it at that.

bill your boats are very nice and fast and build quality like no other. I have raced against your boats and they run and turn perfect without using stumble blocks. Some people just cant accept the fact that things change and think they know everything and everyone else is wrong and they don't know what they are doing.. CARRY ON BILL your still producing boats and keeping the tunnels going while the other person is not producing anything and just running their mouth..

 

[Carl Van Houten]

I am going to make a video soon that will both prove and clear up some theories that seem to keep popping up and sparking off controversial discussions and arguments about what IS and IS NOT happening with tunnel hulls.

Don't expect some sterile white lab coat experiment from some guy with a British accent but rather a video with some Southern boy that sounds like he failed all of his high school American English classes.

OR I may post a diagram and let you do the experiment yourself. This would be a very basic and fundamental example of what is actually happening aerodynamically with a tunnel boat.

If you can think of something you think is happening aerodynamically or otherwise, make a demo or drawing that would support your theory. This should not only help everybody to understand things better but it should result in some better designs or prove why the new ones may be better.

A demo is hard to argue with...it would probably be the best way to prove your theory.

it's just a thought...

-Carl

 

[bob miller]

i want to near the southern boy .....we need some south up here....bob

 

[LohringMiller]

I'll take you up on your tunnel offer, Carl. Ron has all my XT-460 and XTR 21 plugs as well as the molds he got from Alfred. I gave my electric XTR 21 to another club member and it still runs well as a P limited tunnel. See below with me racing it against Brian Buaas a few years ago. Unfortunately I hit the buoy. These days my club mostly races P limited tunnels, but I have an XT-460 with a 6S setup that is really fast. My driving skills aren't up to getting the most out of it, though. I watched Brian Buaas and Alfred Lanza go at it with XT-460s at a Grand Prix some time ago. Brian's electric version was faster than Alfred's 7.5 mod version, but the racing was close. The electric version needs a very different setup with a shallow prop. A deep prop torques the right sponson down and flips the hull.

Lohring Miller

 

[Bill Britton]

Sure seems dead around here.

Sorry, I'm an ass.

 

[Carl Van Houten]

I'll take you up on your tunnel offer, Carl. Ron has all my XT-460 and XTR 21 plugs as well as the molds he got from Alfred. I gave my electric XTR 21 to another club member and it still runs well as a P limited tunnel. See below with me racing it against Brian Buaas a few years ago. Unfortunately I hit the buoy. These days my club mostly races P limited tunnels, but I have an XT-460 with a 6S setup that is really fast. My driving skills aren't up to getting the most out of it, though. I watched Brian Buaas and Alfred Lanza go at it with XT-460s at a Grand Prix some time ago. Brian's electric version was faster than Alfred's 7.5 mod version, but the racing was close. The electric version needs a very different setup with a shallow prop. A deep prop torques the right sponson down and flips the hull.

Lohring Miller

Electric Tunnels 1.jpg

Electric Tunnels 2.jpg

One thing that NAMBA and IMPBA has in common for sure is that number one buoy...Ours stay beat up too. In our test pond we have buoys that are made from 3/4" thick blue dow brand sheet foam that we get from Lowes. A while back we had trouble finding the ball type crab trap buoys and made these to get us by. As it turned out, these have lasted longer than any we have ever had and I know its not because we are driving any better heck we are all over 60 now...LOL. We rip the foam into squares with a box cutter and then cut them round on a little 9" band saw that I take down to the pond and set up on the tail gate and run with my inverter. Doing it at the pond I get plenty of help and in no time they are all cut out. Then we glue them together using gorilla glue stacked 4 high making a 3" thick foam disc and spray them orange. They will get you by and actually and we think they are better than the white crab trap balls that we cut in half and used for so many years.

 

[Jarcaines]

I dont have near the knowledge or experiences of probably anyone in this thread has, but I did recently talk to Rod about how and why he came up with the recovery pad idea and the mechanics behind how it works and it was absolutely nothing like what I thought they did. Its not my story or theory to share, maybe he can come in and explain it, but it sorta blew my mind a bit.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

I dont have near the knowledge or experiences of probably anyone in this thread has, but I did recently talk to Rod about how and why he came up with the recovery pad idea and the mechanics behind how it works and it was absolutely nothing like what I thought they did. Its not my story or theory to share, maybe he can come in and explain it, but it sorta blew my mind a bit.

And that's part of the fun, science and mystery of R/C racing. Obviously, designers like Rod, Bill, JD and others all have their own thoughts on the what and why a boat will or won't work. Since they have all designed highly competitive boats, none of them can be called wrong for what they put out. I'll be the first to admit I don't have a clue on how to set up a tunnel as scale and sport hydros are already more than enough for me to deal with. What I do know is that any boat that runs well is a carefully balanced mix of weight, balance, aerodynamics, hydrodynamics and engine/prop. The person that balances out that mix the best(allowing for the conditions of the race site on any given day) should most probably win, baring major driving errors and on water mishaps.

 

[PatrickLoveless]

Been pretty busy myself the last month. Just finished these a few days ago. Not racing for a few years gave me time to focus on design and theory. Building literally a hundred boats, running it for a few weeks, then making changes and building again. I learned that 30 year old tunnel boat design practices are good but quite a few "standards" and "rules" are fictional or just outright wrong...

44118507_2335461779816327_2921856824015585280_o.jpg

44179863_2335461636483008_7106778218849370112_o.jpg

44129338_2335461709816334_328715974834388992_o.jpg

Bring one of those to SOWEGA and let's RACE! I will be driving a wooden boat that is 25 years old in the sport 3.5cc class. Mike Rushing used to call it "Twiggy" because it was a wooden boat. We only built one of them and then I designed the Lynx so it is just a one of a kind but it is no slouch now. I may run in Mod 3.5 too but I'll have to see what the weather is going to be like that weekend. If it is not going to be windy, I will run it in both classes of 3.5cc tunnel.

 

[PatrickLoveless]

Not sure what happened but didn't mean to post that. I just purchased a leecraft but not sure of the model it is. Im hoping to run b sport tunnel next year with it if its still capable. New to the tunnel scene but cant wait to get going.

 

[Brandon Atwell]

Not sure what happened but didn't mean to post that. I just purchased a leecraft but not sure of the model it is. Im hoping to run b sport tunnel next year with it if its still capable. New to the tunnel scene but cant wait to get going.

Id guess an XTR-21, they still run well! You should have fun with it Pat!

 

[topfuel443]

Yes, its an XTR21.