Have a friend who's looking at buying a non molested hull which is a cab forward hull and was told that it is not IMPBA legal. He wants to use it ,set up for fast electric. I believe the hull can be done up as the atlas van lines and a few others. He would also like to know the thoughts on the hull lay up, is it to heavy , or any bad ride characteristics that need to be addressed before painting?I would prefer to here from people who have had one of these hulls and are also knowledgeable of the IMPBA rules on 1/8 scales. Thank you in advance for your replies. Geoff Overell , District 1 NLMBC.
steve muck 1/8 scale hulls
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julianconde
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SayMikey and don ferrette will probably be they guys to talk to..
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Go to here http://www.namba.com/content/default.asp
Pull down the scale section, look for master hull roster, if your hull fits into the measurements of the boat you want to build.
Then go here http://newtonmarine.com/ using the master hull roster number, look at the photos and see if you hull LOOKS like what you want to build
if it fits the measurements & appearance you "should" be good to go
Also check with you district scale chairman, and IMPBA scale chairman
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Say what?? That sounds odd as I don't recall any Muck 1/8 scale hulls that were not IMPBA legal unless it's been improperly modded. Who told him that it was not legal and why? If the "unmolested" hull he wants to use ran as a real boat then you should good to go, just have the required photo documentation to back it up and follow the rules.
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I think what he needs to do is check the ram wing set back with the hull your going to build, such as the Lincoln Thrift vs the Miss US and probably others, if your within the measurements, go for it.
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Ram wing???? What line did you read that between? here is the real rules.
Steve Muck hull should be OK,, like Don says get your pictures FIRST then pick a hull that matches the measurement and looks.
section H5
Engine and Boat Specifications
1. All boats to be modeled after Unlimited hydroplanes from past or present.
2. All boats to be built to a scale of 1 1/2" to 1'0" (1/8 scale) plus or minus 10% of the
beam and 5% of the length.
3. Boats will look as scale as possible and meet the following requirements for racing
and scale judging:
a. Cockpit with driver
b. Complete all major lettering and paint schemes
c. Effort must be made to conceal glow engine with fake engine or cowling as
per prototype boats.
4. Hull bottom and running hardware will not be judged or checked. However, hull must not
deviate from conventional 3-point hydro (unless prototype was a different design).
a. Hull bottom must be scale appearing.
b. Belly pants are acceptable to clear engine and/or flywheel.
c. Secondary front sponson running surfaces are optional.
d. Air traps are optional.
5. Engine must correspond with IMPBA Class "E".
6. Boat shall use same number of propellers as the prototype.
7. The drive dog must not extend beyond the transom unless the prototype boat did so.
8. No twin rudder assemblies allowed.
9. Boats should have the ability to change frequency.
Rules for Optional Scale Judging (Concourse)
1. Boat must accumulate 50 points in racing to qualify for scale judging.
2. Judging points to be separate from racing points.
3. All boats are to be judged no closer than 10 feet.
4. A picture must be submitted for the scale judging.
5. Points as follows:
a. 1 to 10 overall scale appearance
b. 1 to 10 for detail, engine, cowl, driver, etc.
c. 1 to 10 for paint job, markings, etc.
d. 1 to 10 for construction
Racing Rules
Steve Muck hull should be OK,, like Don says get your pictures FIRST then pick a hull that matches the measurement and looks.
section H5
Engine and Boat Specifications
1. All boats to be modeled after Unlimited hydroplanes from past or present.
2. All boats to be built to a scale of 1 1/2" to 1'0" (1/8 scale) plus or minus 10% of the
beam and 5% of the length.
3. Boats will look as scale as possible and meet the following requirements for racing
and scale judging:
a. Cockpit with driver
b. Complete all major lettering and paint schemes
c. Effort must be made to conceal glow engine with fake engine or cowling as
per prototype boats.
4. Hull bottom and running hardware will not be judged or checked. However, hull must not
deviate from conventional 3-point hydro (unless prototype was a different design).
a. Hull bottom must be scale appearing.
b. Belly pants are acceptable to clear engine and/or flywheel.
c. Secondary front sponson running surfaces are optional.
d. Air traps are optional.
5. Engine must correspond with IMPBA Class "E".
6. Boat shall use same number of propellers as the prototype.
7. The drive dog must not extend beyond the transom unless the prototype boat did so.
8. No twin rudder assemblies allowed.
9. Boats should have the ability to change frequency.
Rules for Optional Scale Judging (Concourse)
1. Boat must accumulate 50 points in racing to qualify for scale judging.
2. Judging points to be separate from racing points.
3. All boats are to be judged no closer than 10 feet.
4. A picture must be submitted for the scale judging.
5. Points as follows:
a. 1 to 10 overall scale appearance
b. 1 to 10 for detail, engine, cowl, driver, etc.
c. 1 to 10 for paint job, markings, etc.
d. 1 to 10 for construction
Racing Rules
There's a cabover scale on Ebay that looks right but if he measured the boat right it's illegal.
Both to short and to wide. I think he measured wrong, it doesn't look 25" wide in the pictures.
#7664
43.25 - 45.25
17.55 - 21.45
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160430474865&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Both to short and to wide. I think he measured wrong, it doesn't look 25" wide in the pictures.
#7664
43.25 - 45.25
17.55 - 21.45
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160430474865&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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Hydro Junkie
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Did Steve Muck ever make a cabover scale hull? I know he made a scale 7474 hull as I have one but beyond that..................
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I understand why that upset you, trim your ears, in the past, IMPBA Internats, that dimension has been checked, and argued, it's a real dimension of the hull, follow it, dont assume anything.
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Oh I not upset, That would come under " looks as scale as possible" I would not think it would make it not legal.
The model must meet the size rules though, some of the mucks had a narrow and a wide hull that would make a difference if it is right or not.
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Point taken, but if your going to build a boat from scratch, and you have dimensions (Master Hull List) which IMPBA never really mentions in their rules, be as accurate as possible, so someone dosent walk up to your boat, measure it and tell you its not legal or correct, that would piss me off, so do your homework, avoid the problem, not after you spend 6 months finishing it.
Im sure poor Geoff is all confused now, sorry.............
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Correct.
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Yes I went thru that with the U10 so many variations year to year.
Welcome to the scale hydro world
dave weagel
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re steve muck hulls. is john borden still making some steve muck hulls ? if so, he should be able to tell you which hulls are still being made, their dimensions and other details.
i'm not a scale builder nor have built any of his picklefork hulls but did own his karelsen 101 and jones 102 round nose hulls and were within the MHR dimensional ranges listed. excellent quality and ran well with zenoah gas engine power. steve was extremely helpful when i ordered these hulls and other cowlings several years ago.
i'm reasonably confident that his cab forward picklefork hulls would fit within the MHR dimensions as well. but only steve, john or an owner builder can verify this for you.
from a steve muck catalog dated 1987, the following 1/8 scale cab forward picklefork hulls were available : ( steve used the newton plan numbers for his hull designations )
no. 100 - length 43 1/2 width 21 1/2 - 80-82 pak, 79-84 bud, 79-81 circus, 79-83 squire and 84 tosti
no. 108 - length 43 width 20 1/2 - 72 notre dame, 80-82 pak, 79-81 circus, 79-85 bud, 83 speedy, 82-83 squire, 81-82 atlas and 83 executone
no. 110 slot deck - length 43 width 20 1/2 - 83 atlas, 84-86 squire, 84-85 executone, 85 7-11, 84 tosti and 87 pringles
various cowls were also available.
hope this helps.
i'm not a scale builder nor have built any of his picklefork hulls but did own his karelsen 101 and jones 102 round nose hulls and were within the MHR dimensional ranges listed. excellent quality and ran well with zenoah gas engine power. steve was extremely helpful when i ordered these hulls and other cowlings several years ago.
i'm reasonably confident that his cab forward picklefork hulls would fit within the MHR dimensions as well. but only steve, john or an owner builder can verify this for you.
from a steve muck catalog dated 1987, the following 1/8 scale cab forward picklefork hulls were available : ( steve used the newton plan numbers for his hull designations )
no. 100 - length 43 1/2 width 21 1/2 - 80-82 pak, 79-84 bud, 79-81 circus, 79-83 squire and 84 tosti
no. 108 - length 43 width 20 1/2 - 72 notre dame, 80-82 pak, 79-81 circus, 79-85 bud, 83 speedy, 82-83 squire, 81-82 atlas and 83 executone
no. 110 slot deck - length 43 width 20 1/2 - 83 atlas, 84-86 squire, 84-85 executone, 85 7-11, 84 tosti and 87 pringles
various cowls were also available.
hope this helps.
Hydro Junkie
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The 108 I haveTECHNICALLY DOES NOT MAKE THE NOTRE DAME. The pickle fork depth is too shallow by about .5" That being said, everything else is within the MHR so my boat will be allowed to run. I think it should be more up to the club's tech inspector to make the call on what will and won't be legal
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Do you know there is a boat in your district that doesn't meet the measurment?
SayMikey
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Thats the problem when you let a club let you in then go to a national event what happens Bang, If you read the MHR how hard is it to conform to its specs? FYI we now have a new IMPBA National Scale Director Steve Peterson is the go to guy. Another thing its better to ask your District Director for help when needed,this forum is a wonderful place for information. But its tainted some times by crossover guys. Marty Schallenberger hope I spelled that right is the NAMBA guy,both guys are easy to approach and will find you the correct answer Mike
Hydro Junkie
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My Muck won't be run outside of Washington so it's not a problem for me. My under construction Madison or Oberto will be my primary boat, and with those, I've been very anal on keeping them as close as posible to scale size. I figure that since I'm building them from plans and correcting the hull as I go, if their not legal there's no one to blame but me if they're not legal
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Thank you everybody who replied with an answer. I will relay all info back to my friend who is not computer literate -- old age--- stubborn--, and will probably give Steve Peterson a call to make a verification on the hull. B) Geoff Overell.
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