Quieting Boats down

[Don Ferrette]

Don,

Are they going to be able to shrink the technology to smaller pipes?

Like 21s, 45s etc? :huh:

Yes! Keep in mind that from what I hear the Cooper 45 quiet pipe works well also so that is another option. My primary focus right now is addressing the big block motors & then 1/8 scale which is another offender due to us running pipes inside simulated turbine tubes, really ups the noise in alot of cases. I'm bustin' my butt on this one folks to try to get stuff out there that gives us viable truely quiet options. I will say this in that if we'd have listened to Dick Tyndall ten years ago when he tried to keep the IMPBA ahead of the curve on noise abatement we'd already be there ........

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Ok

So I found the isolators I want to use for my new enginemounts. I did order both soft and mid range firm ones just to see.

I think I will make the mount parts out of delrin just to see how that works.

Now I am looking for a source of rubber tubing to isolate the stuffing tube from the boat. I am thinking a wall thickness of 1/16th of an inch.

Any thoughts ?

Brian

 

[AWaddle322]

Ok

So I found the isolators I want to use for my new enginemounts. I did order both soft and mid range firm ones just to see.

I think I will make the mount parts out of delrin just to see how that works.

Now I am looking for a source of rubber tubing to isolate the stuffing tube from the boat. I am thinking a wall thickness of 1/16th of an inch.

Any thoughts ?

Brian

X large fuel tubing or any hardare store will carry rubber tubing with 1/4 " inner. What i really dont understand is why you think that something that is hard mounted needs to be isolated as it will still have to me hard mounted at the strut. What is your thought process here.

Allen

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Ok

So I found the isolators I want to use for my new enginemounts. I did order both soft and mid range firm ones just to see.

I think I will make the mount parts out of delrin just to see how that works.

Now I am looking for a source of rubber tubing to isolate the stuffing tube from the boat. I am thinking a wall thickness of 1/16th of an inch.

Any thoughts ?

Brian

X large fuel tubing or any hardare store will carry rubber tubing with 1/4 " inner. What i really dont understand is why you think that something that is hard mounted needs to be isolated as it will still have to me hard mounted at the strut. What is your thought process here.

Allen

Allen

I agree that it is hard mounted, but there is some transfer of vibration from the engine to the hull. I know it might be a small amount of noise but my intension is to remove as much noise as possible from the boat. You do bring up and issue as far as the strut is concerned. My plan for that is to isolate the strut as well. Of course this cannot be some floppy type of isolation but I have some thin rubber material to put between the strut blade and the mount brackets. Although the transfer here is likely small my goal is overall reduction. Sure its over kill but the less noise from other sources the easier it is to see results in another area.

The overall goal with this entire project is to do as much as possible to reduce overall noise from a monohull but still have a race winning boat. And to not have to have a cowling.

I like the large fuel tubing idea as it will do a good job of isolation being it is silicone but will not have much overall movement. The tubing I find at the hardware store is either really hard or really thick. Windshiel washer tubing would work if it cam in larger diameters.

Hope that helps you understand where I am going with this.

Brian

 

[Don Ferrette]

Ok

So I found the isolators I want to use for my new enginemounts. I did order both soft and mid range firm ones just to see.

I think I will make the mount parts out of delrin just to see how that works.

Now I am looking for a source of rubber tubing to isolate the stuffing tube from the boat. I am thinking a wall thickness of 1/16th of an inch.

Any thoughts ?

Brian

X large fuel tubing or any hardare store will carry rubber tubing with 1/4 " inner. What i really dont understand is why you think that something that is hard mounted needs to be isolated as it will still have to me hard mounted at the strut. What is your thought process here.

Allen

Vibrations from the flex shaft running inside the stuffing tube transmit into the hull thru the typical hard 'glass or epoxy mounting we tend to use. While this seems to be less noticeable in the wood hulls like riggers, it can be far more prominent in a glass hull like a mono or cat. Just think of the last time you heard a boat that had the flexshaft screaming from lack of grease, do you think all that noise was only the cable??

 

[bzubee]

Brian Warehouse boats down in Florida has a rubber isolator block they sell for monos look at their web site I saw one a while ago but it also looked kind of heavy. Also check with Chris Herzog he has a product called a T bar that some of the gas guys use you might be abel to use it in addition to rubber mounts for the stuffing box.

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Brian Warehouse boats down in Florida has a rubber isolator block they sell for monos look at their web site I saw one a while ago but it also looked kind of heavy. Also check with Chris Herzog he has a product called a T bar that some of the gas guys use you might be abel to use it in addition to rubber mounts for the stuffing box.

Thanks Bill

I have looked at the isolation pads and have deemed them to heavy for .21 and .45 mono's. I will check on the T bar stuff from Chris.

Brian

 

[AWaddle322]

guess i was not thinking about mono or cats. I could not figire out how to isolate and keep a dry radio box but i was thinking of riggers. Brian, will you mount his tubing inside of another tubing or will you be trying to glue the rubber tubing directly to an object? I am asking this questions as you will have a hard timing bonding certain rubbers to anything to be substational enough for a stuffing box tube.

Allen

 

[AWaddle322]

Ok

So I found the isolators I want to use for my new enginemounts. I did order both soft and mid range firm ones just to see.

I think I will make the mount parts out of delrin just to see how that works.

Now I am looking for a source of rubber tubing to isolate the stuffing tube from the boat. I am thinking a wall thickness of 1/16th of an inch.

Any thoughts ?

Brian

X large fuel tubing or any hardare store will carry rubber tubing with 1/4 " inner. What i really dont understand is why you think that something that is hard mounted needs to be isolated as it will still have to me hard mounted at the strut. What is your thought process here.

Allen

Vibrations from the flex shaft running inside the stuffing tube transmit into the hull thru the typical hard 'glass or epoxy mounting we tend to use. While this seems to be less noticeable in the wood hulls like riggers, it can be far more prominent in a glass hull like a mono or cat. Just think of the last time you heard a boat that had the flexshaft screaming from lack of grease, do you think all that noise was only the cable??

Don, since you put grease on it and the noise goes away I would assume that it coming from the shaft but I guess it could be amplified by hull itslef in a hull like a open mono. I really dont anything about a mono, I had one but I could not tell you anything about it. I raced it two events and some one wanted it and it went home with them. It just was not for me (mono)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Allen

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

guess i was not thinking about mono or cats. I could not figire out how to isolate and keep a dry radio box but i was thinking of riggers. Brian, will you mount his tubing inside of another tubing or will you be trying to glue the rubber tubing directly to an object? I am asking this questions as you will have a hard timing bonding certain rubbers to anything to be substational enough for a stuffing box tube.

Allen

Allen

I plan on testing several methods before I actually put it in the boat. Tube in side of tube is one idea and bonding was another. Just a few minutes ago I got some information on a pourable rubber adhesive that looks promisiing. It looks kind of pricey though. When I found out more I will post some information on it.

I agree that in a rigger it would be hard to isolate the tube and get a watertight radio box. It think the only way would be to use the tube in tube method. At least thats all I can think of at this time. I will likely try some stuff with riggers later this fall but for now the mono's are my focus because of the hull noise issues.

Brian

 

[Ken Retallick]

I have never heard a screaming shaft using teflon liners, never had one fail in any way either.

The teflon certainly stops any metal to metal noise in the shaft area.

Ken

 

[Don Ferrette]

Don, since you put grease on it and the noise goes away I would assume that it coming from the shaft but I guess it could be amplified by hull itself in a hull like a open mono. I really dont anything about a mono, I had one but I could not tell you anything about it. I raced it two events and some one wanted it and it went home with them. It just was not for me (mono)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Allen

I hear ya, tried the mono thing once myself, figured out pretty quick I'm a hydro guy.

 

[CMBrunner]

guess i was not thinking about mono or cats. I could not figire out how to isolate and keep a dry radio box but i was thinking of riggers. Brian, will you mount his tubing inside of another tubing or will you be trying to glue the rubber tubing directly to an object? I am asking this questions as you will have a hard timing bonding certain rubbers to anything to be substational enough for a stuffing box tube.

Allen

Allen

I plan on testing several methods before I actually put it in the boat. Tube in side of tube is one idea and bonding was another. Just a few minutes ago I got some information on a pourable rubber adhesive that looks promisiing. It looks kind of pricey though. When I found out more I will post some information on it.

I agree that in a rigger it would be hard to isolate the tube and get a watertight radio box. It think the only way would be to use the tube in tube method. At least thats all I can think of at this time. I will likely try some stuff with riggers later this fall but for now the mono's are my focus because of the hull noise issues.

Brian

Brian,

You might want to try "shoe goo"....I bonded in a 20 mono shaft with it a few years back and

it worked well....fuel-proof enough for the use.

 

[AWaddle322]

guess i was not thinking about mono or cats. I could not figire out how to isolate and keep a dry radio box but i was thinking of riggers. Brian, will you mount his tubing inside of another tubing or will you be trying to glue the rubber tubing directly to an object? I am asking this questions as you will have a hard timing bonding certain rubbers to anything to be substational enough for a stuffing box tube.

Allen

Allen

I plan on testing several methods before I actually put it in the boat. Tube in side of tube is one idea and bonding was another. Just a few minutes ago I got some information on a pourable rubber adhesive that looks promisiing. It looks kind of pricey though. When I found out more I will post some information on it.

I agree that in a rigger it would be hard to isolate the tube and get a watertight radio box. It think the only way would be to use the tube in tube method. At least thats all I can think of at this time. I will likely try some stuff with riggers later this fall but for now the mono's are my focus because of the hull noise issues.

Brian

Brian,

You might want to try "shoe goo"....I bonded in a 20 mono shaft with it a few years back and

it worked well....fuel-proof enough for the use.

Brian,

I would highly recomend not doing this. i am commercial glass and aluminum storefront person and deal with selants everyday of my life. Any clear product is not uv resistant. If you have ever seen a clear product turn yellowish in color this is the begining of the process for this product to break down. Once it break downs it loses over half of its bonding strength. This can take as little as one month after full cure of the product which believe it or not can take several weeks. If you are intersted in caulking your tube in let me know and I will talk to GE Silicoln rep and find a product that will work for this (FOR THE LONG RUN). However I tend to believe that this will make for a heavy installation.

I would think that wood blocks with rubber groments would be a much better installation in consideration to lightness and what you are tryng to accomplish. Or maybe I am way to hung up on lightness.

Allen

 

[Joe_Knesek]

guess i was not thinking about mono or cats. I could not figire out how to isolate and keep a dry radio box but i was thinking of riggers. Brian, will you mount his tubing inside of another tubing or will you be trying to glue the rubber tubing directly to an object? I am asking this questions as you will have a hard timing bonding certain rubbers to anything to be substational enough for a stuffing box tube.

Allen

Allen

I plan on testing several methods before I actually put it in the boat. Tube in side of tube is one idea and bonding was another. Just a few minutes ago I got some information on a pourable rubber adhesive that looks promisiing. It looks kind of pricey though. When I found out more I will post some information on it.

I agree that in a rigger it would be hard to isolate the tube and get a watertight radio box. It think the only way would be to use the tube in tube method. At least thats all I can think of at this time. I will likely try some stuff with riggers later this fall but for now the mono's are my focus because of the hull noise issues.

Brian

Brian,

You might want to try "shoe goo"....I bonded in a 20 mono shaft with it a few years back and

it worked well....fuel-proof enough for the use.

Brian,

I would highly recomend not doing this. i am commercial glass and aluminum storefront person and deal with selants everyday of my life. Any clear product is not uv resistant. If you have ever seen a clear product turn yellowish in color this is the begining of the process for this product to break down. Once it break downs it loses over half of its bonding strength. This can take as little as one month after full cure of the product which believe it or not can take several weeks. If you are intersted in caulking your tube in let me know and I will talk to GE Silicoln rep and find a product that will work for this (FOR THE LONG RUN). However I tend to believe that this will make for a heavy installation.

I would think that wood blocks with rubber groments would be a much better installation in consideration to lightness and what you are tryng to accomplish. Or maybe I am way to hung up on lightness.

Allen

I've been making a block out of the medium density Kegecell to mount my stuffing tubes and they work great. It offers some dampining but does not allow the tube to move.

I've considered incorperating a stuffing tube mount into the motor mount so it would float with the motor but it would be a lot of mill work.

 

[Brian Schymik]

Guys,

when I built my scale I put the stuffing tube through the bottom and held it in with Black RTV only. No epoxy at all.

That was 4 years ago and it is still in there. No trouble at all so far!!

Also my scale has the pipe exhaust in the transom, instead of out the turbine tube...I think this helps keep it quieter too.

Brian

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Guys,

when I built my scale I put the stuffing tube through the bottom and held it in with Black RTV only. No epoxy at all.

That was 4 years ago and it is still in there. No trouble at all so far!!

Also my scale has the pipe exhaust in the transom, instead of out the turbine tube...I think this helps keep it quieter too.

Brian

There ya go! and I'll bet the tube doesen't touch the glass hull. I know that boat is quiet.........and consistent...........and fast........I hate that boat!!

 

[AWaddle322]

Guys,

when I built my scale I put the stuffing tube through the bottom and held it in with Black RTV only. No epoxy at all.

That was 4 years ago and it is still in there. No trouble at all so far!!

Also my scale has the pipe exhaust in the transom, instead of out the turbine tube...I think this helps keep it quieter too.

Brian

Just to make sure I have got this right. No where in your driveline is held by anything other than silicoln and of course what ever suppot you get from a the strut?

Allen

 

[Brian Schymik]

Allen,

almost,

there is a little wooden block about 1/4 by 1/2 inch glued under the stuffing box to the hull near the motor end to keep it straight, it has a shallow U shape cut into the top. The tube rests on it, but is not glued to it.

Brian

 

[AWaddle322]

interesting.