question for the general public

[Chris Wood]

everything here ,but the crapshooters, are out of production or no longer available in the usa

and that is unfortunate.

chris

 

[black talon]

one thing i have noticed is that when you go to your lhs or online store they show you this new shiny part and tell you exactly which car or truck it fits and it's the same with airplanes. if you look into boat parts there is no cross referencing or any other help to know if it's going to fit your boat.props,pipes rudders,spin fins,etc.. most hobby shops don't know boats and if your a noob, your on your own except for forums.

 

[M@MRacing]

As far as hardware Speedmaster is great they get it off to you right away and the hardware is far from none they are keeping Bills name out there.

 

[TCHedOff]

Marketing is what I do for a living. I'll toss out a few suggestions - but the obstacle is really the personal commitment in terms of time & effort (not money actually). I'll use the Twin Cities for my examples.

1) Hit EVERY RC hobby store in your area with an RC boat day on Saturday (busiest day for shopping)EACH summer (from time store opens til closed). There are @10 dedicated Hobbyshops in our area. Then there are the Walmart's to Hobbyland chain stores that have a toy dept that sells RC stuff - 1 day at each of those on Saturday - there's probably 20 of those around here (probably 3 just in the Mega Mall where there is TONS of traffic/exposure). At these one day events you bring a table for displaying at least 1 of each kind of hull and a variety of sizes of some pretty-painted boats from .12 to twin engine & gas. You set up a TV/VCR to play a videos of SAW and heat racing with a variety of sized boats - including the wipeouts and all the other fun. You have a display easel with the last few years of record holders to let people know what can be achieved... and have one or more people there to answer questions and pass out the local club schedule of races/hobby events/and internet resources from youtube to mfrs to IW itself. IF this was done for 1 summer you'd expose a 100+ people a day x 30 events = 3000 people (the Mega Mall would GREATLY exceed this though). Some of these 3000 are going to give you word-of mouth by telling others, and giving them your schedule. Others will go online to see more for themselves (that why you include it in your handouts). I used to work w/Walmart (SAM's Club) - they LIKE events like I'm suggesting because it brings in traffic - doesnt cost a penny - just an intelligent discussion with the GM.

2) There are many small towns surrounding the Twin Cities and the cities themselves (there are probably 50 (25 just within T.C.'s) - ALL have MANY special events days in addition to the normal summer holidays - we just had "KI-SAGO Days" last weekend. Contact the city councils each winter to learn the summer's schedule of events and the coordinator contact info. Do the same set up as in the hobby-related efforts. 50 Cities x "X" events times several thousand people exposed = big exposure.

3) Invite the TV and newspaper media to EACH of your club races. ESPECIALLY do this for the bigger events. They are often looking for novel, unusual human interest stories. By contacting them for EACH race the odds are higher that you'll catch them when they are looking for story & you fit the ticket. I got my mug on TV in Green Bay WI because our SAMS club made a giant yellow ribbon the length of the storefront. I also got a pic in the newspaper because our Jaycees contributed 50+ wooden toys to a Hmong children's place for Christmas. I noticed one little girl afraid to go over and touch them - went over and kneeled down to encourage her and guess what pic was in the paper? Again free exposure to MANY.

I can go on for several more pages.... fairs, parades, raffles, rebates, incentives, flyer campaigns, referral programs to name a few BUT IF only these 1st 3 were practiced religiously each summer as outlined each club would have a FAST-growing membership in 1-2 yrs. Like I said it doesnt take money - it just takes takes ALOT time and effort. If any one wants to speak w/me in detail free free to PM me. B)

todd hollander

 

[time bandit]

I realize only a small fraction of the IMPBA membership know of the efforts now underway to organize a working relationship with the AMA. The main concern now is with the insurance issues but if successful the resourses that would become available to IMPBA to use towards marketing and promotion alone are enormous.

Just one example, we could easily work our way into our own publication, send a teaser copy out to the AMA member mailing list which is over 150,000. If we got intrest from just 1% that would more than double our present membership.

I think most would be shocked at just how many AMA members own and run some type of boat, they've just never raced or don't even realize we do.

I've not even scratched the surface

Think about it, it's not rocket science

Our key to getting noticed by manufacturers is shear numbers. period

Greg Hahn

Technical Director

AMA

 

[Andy Greene]

I think most would be shocked at just how many AMA members own and run some type of boat, they've just never raced or don't even realize we do.
I've not even scratched the surface

Think about it, it's not rocket science

Our key to getting noticed by manufacturers is shear numbers. period

Greg Hahn

Technical Director

AMA

Bingo- But -

How may plane guys do you know that have a boat tucked away they don't bother to run ??? Most of them used to run or at least raced once or saw a race.......

The real question is, why dont they run or still run ???? Is it easier to find a flying field than a pond ? Less equiptment involved picking up (sweeping up) a dead plane than a boat ? Why did they quit ??????

Andy

 

[Ron Olson]

If we have to use the Plug & Play boats to get prospective new boaters into the hobby, so be it. The problem is that most new boaters don't know how to build one or adjust anything so they go with one pre-built.

Pro Boat sold a shipload and then some of the Miss Bud's because of what I call the "Golly Gee Whiz" factor. It was a boat that they could identify with as it kinda looked like a model of the real thing. The problem was that most were clueless as to what to do with it once they bought one. After frustration they ended up on eBay. Now those peole that didn't know what they were doing gave up on boats and went back to planes or trucks.

One hobby shop opened up near me and while having a big grand opening didn't have any boats to display so I loaned them some of mine for the day. That same day they shot a TV commercial there and my boats got airtime!

Get the word out any way that you can, fliers in the hobby shops to let them know you're out there, R/C swap meets where I've rented a table to not only sell boats but drug along a TV and DVD player to show videos.

 

[piper_chuck]

I think most would be shocked at just how many AMA members own and run some type of boat, they've just never raced or don't even realize we do.
I've not even scratched the surface

Think about it, it's not rocket science

Our key to getting noticed by manufacturers is shear numbers. period

Greg Hahn

Technical Director

AMA

Bingo- But -

How may plane guys do you know that have a boat tucked away they don't bother to run ??? Most of them used to run or at least raced once or saw a race.......

The real question is, why dont they run or still run ???? Is it easier to find a flying field than a pond ? Less equiptment involved picking up (sweeping up) a dead plane than a boat ? Why did they quit ??????

Andy

I fly and race. Here are some reasons I'd fly versus racing boats.

I can go fly at any one of several fields within 10-60 minutes from home. The nearest place to race boats is a 2 hour drive.

I can go fly for a few hours. Racing tends to be an all day, or weekend, affair.

I burn 15% fuel for flying, racing is 50%.

I can go to the flying field nearly any day of the week and several other guys will be there. Trips to the pond require coordination with someone else if I don't want to run alone (not a good idea).

Maintenance on planes is much lower than on boats.

 

[time bandit]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to change the topic of this thread, Chris started this about hardware and boat availability. I was just stressing the point that it's all a big numbers game, and the fact effort on all fronts is our key to success.

We don't have to initially throw big numbers out, we need to show growth and taking the steps, showing initiative to address that need can sometimes be enough for the manufacturers get on board with product development.

I totally agree the RTR has done a lot to introduce new folks into our segment and it will continue to fulfill that roll, but then as stated earlier where do they go from there?

The new VS-1, I think could be considered that all important "next step" type boat. The ability for new participants to progress through skill levels is very important for sustaining intrest. That's one thing the airplane guys have and we don't yet.

Greg Hahn

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Marketing is what I do for a living. I'll toss out a few suggestions - but the obstacle is really the personal commitment in terms of time & effort (not money actually). I'll use the Twin Cities for my examples.
1) Hit EVERY RC hobby store in your area with an RC boat day on Saturday (busiest day for shopping)EACH summer (from time store opens til closed). There are @10 dedicated Hobbyshops in our area. Then there are the Walmart's to Hobbyland chain stores that have a toy dept that sells RC stuff - 1 day at each of those on Saturday - there's probably 20 of those around here (probably 3 just in the Mega Mall where there is TONS of traffic/exposure). At these one day events you bring a table for displaying at least 1 of each kind of hull and a variety of sizes of some pretty-painted boats from .12 to twin engine & gas. You set up a TV/VCR to play a videos of SAW and heat racing with a variety of sized boats - including the wipeouts and all the other fun. You have a display easel with the last few years of record holders to let people know what can be achieved... and have one or more people there to answer questions and pass out the local club schedule of races/hobby events/and internet resources from youtube to mfrs to IW itself. IF this was done for 1 summer you'd expose a 100+ people a day x 30 events = 3000 people (the Mega Mall would GREATLY exceed this though). Some of these 3000 are going to give you word-of mouth by telling others, and giving them your schedule. Others will go online to see more for themselves (that why you include it in your handouts). I used to work w/Walmart (SAM's Club) - they LIKE events like I'm suggesting because it brings in traffic - doesnt cost a penny - just an intelligent discussion with the GM.

2) There are many small towns surrounding the Twin Cities and the cities themselves (there are probably 50 (25 just within T.C.'s) - ALL have MANY special events days in addition to the normal summer holidays - we just had "KI-SAGO Days" last weekend. Contact the city councils each winter to learn the summer's schedule of events and the coordinator contact info. Do the same set up as in the hobby-related efforts. 50 Cities x "X" events times several thousand people exposed = big exposure.

3) Invite the TV and newspaper media to EACH of your club races. ESPECIALLY do this for the bigger events. They are often looking for novel, unusual human interest stories. By contacting them for EACH race the odds are higher that you'll catch them when they are looking for story & you fit the ticket. I got my mug on TV in Green Bay WI because our SAMS club made a giant yellow ribbon the length of the storefront. I also got a pic in the newspaper because our Jaycees contributed 50+ wooden toys to a Hmong children's place for Christmas. I noticed one little girl afraid to go over and touch them - went over and kneeled down to encourage her and guess what pic was in the paper? Again free exposure to MANY.

I can go on for several more pages.... fairs, parades, raffles, rebates, incentives, flyer campaigns, referral programs to name a few BUT IF only these 1st 3 were practiced religiously each summer as outlined each club would have a FAST-growing membership in 1-2 yrs. Like I said it doesnt take money - it just takes takes ALOT time and effort. If any one wants to speak w/me in detail free free to PM me. B)

todd hollander

That's what I'm talking about.........That reminds me, there is a HO train show in the mall today I want to see soooo I'm outa here.

 

[Sean Bowf]

I totally agree the RTR has done a lot to introduce new folks into our segment and it will continue to fulfill that roll, but then as stated earlier where do they go from there?
The new VS-1, I think could be considered that all important "next step" type boat. The ability for new participants to progress through skill levels is very important for sustaining intrest. That's one thing the airplane guys have and we don't yet.

Greg Hahn

I think the natural progression from RTR...would be that they want to modify their RTR and run in the Mod RTR class, then start to assemble and build their own boats. Might be nice if someone offered a decent RTR or ARTR boat that would be competetive AND FIT INTO AN ALREADY EXISTING CLASS for them to step into next. Something like a .21 seaducer/speedmaster mono...that could be upgraded later to be more competetive if desired.

I think the main thing that we need to offer the folks that buy an RTR, is the help and encouragement they need so they stick around long enough to move deeper into the hobby. I got back into the hobby last year after a LONG break...and luckily I ran into Norm in OK city, who encouraged my interest in the RTRs. We (me and my kids) now own 3 RTRs (4 if you include the project hull I have), a .45 speedmaster mono, and a .21 seaducer mono...

Sean

 

[M@MRacing]

I talked to Jerry from seaducer on a RTR the thing is when he builds it up say everything but engine pipe and radio he be charging way more then a RTR so in reality you might as well build it yourself.

 

[Sean Bowf]

I talked to Jerry from seaducer on a RTR the thing is when he builds it up say everything but engine pipe and radio he be charging way more then a RTR so in reality you might as well build it yourself.

Just my view...but from my perspective, fixing and upgrading is easier than assembling in the first place. The two monos I have still don't run quite right... I would think that the a boat that is complete, or has all but the radio would be the ticket. And yes, I would expect it to cost about double what a current RTR costs... IE 4-600 dollars. The trick would be to be able to get everything together for that price and still make it worth the while (profit) for the company that is doing it.

I am just thinking, that if the aquacraft Miss Vegas can be sold for $280, and the company make a profit, it has to be possible for a company to make a .21 boat for not too much more than that... What would cost more?? Same grade radio, similar grade hardware...engine would be more money. Why should a .21 boat need to cost a lot more than what the current RTRs cost?? Why can't one be made for $400??

Sean

 

[camaroboy383]

im wondering why fiberglass hulls are so expensive,,,, the reason the miss vegas and sv's and the rtr's can be sold so cheap and make a profit is because it costs pennies for the material when bought in bulk....seriously,,, i have a friend that builds cobra kit cars from scratch and i have discussed even the most expensive hulls with him... he honestly doesnt see anymore than $20-$40 in material... keep in mind he buy's in bulk but nothing next to like the rtr companies,,,so it probably cost them about $10 in material... the rest would be labor on the hull... he says it would take him a day to lay it up,,, next morning you could bond the two halfs....once the mold is made,,, its cake walk......so basicaly im confused about the prices on the boats...

 

[AndyBrown]

Most of us here took an "Industrial arts" class in school. I think that is long gone in most schools.

Just a small but important piece of this puzzle! :huh:

 

[John Knight]

im wondering why fiberglass hulls are so expensive,,,, the reason the miss vegas and sv's and the rtr's can be sold so cheap and make a profit is because it costs pennies for the material when bought in bulk....seriously,,, i have a friend that builds cobra kit cars from scratch and i have discussed even the most expensive hulls with him... he honestly doesnt see anymore than $20-$40 in material... keep in mind he buy's in bulk but nothing next to like the rtr companies,,,so it probably cost them about $10 in material... the rest would be labor on the hull... he says it would take him a day to lay it up,,, next morning you could bond the two halfs....once the mold is made,,, its cake walk......so basicaly im confused about the prices on the boats...

I suspect it is due to two primary reasons:

1. Most of the mass produced hulls (RTR etc) are made overseas, where labor is very cheap compared to the US. Exchange rate aside, the work is labor intensive and is expensive in the US.

2. Many of the non-mass produced hulls are made in the US and don't number more than 30 to 50 a year, if that. Some significantly less than that. This will not give much opportunity for buying in a bulk quantity to be a great savings. And they are handmade in a non-production line setting. Economies of scale are not usually available to bring the costs down a great deal.

This is true for almost all boats being built. Whether it is glass, wood, riggers, monos, gas, etc. Just the way it is.

 

[toyotatruckin]

Yep took mechanical drawing-wood shop(every year since jr high)- and a couple different art classes, cant remember the names of them, one was a normal art class the other was more of a hands on type of art class- surely these are still offered its only been 14 years or so since i was in school.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Yep took mechanical drawing-wood shop(every year since jr high)- and a couple different art classes, cant remember the names of them, one was a normal art class the other was more of a hands on type of art class- surely these are still offered its only been 14 years or so since i was in school.

i have one quick question.. then im going to think of how we can make this mainstream.. what the heck do you mean stu is not going to make anymore crapshooter's?? i guess that means ill be talking to andy about another sgx for my new build.. ..later.

terry

 

[John Knight]

everything here ,but the crapshooters, are out of production or no longer available in the usa
and that is unfortunate.

chris

Did Stu announce this at Mendota? Or somewhere else it was announced?

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

im wondering why fiberglass hulls are so expensive,,,, the reason the miss vegas and sv's and the rtr's can be sold so cheap and make a profit is because it costs pennies for the material when bought in bulk....seriously,,, i have a friend that builds cobra kit cars from scratch and i have discussed even the most expensive hulls with him... he honestly doesnt see anymore than $20-$40 in material... keep in mind he buy's in bulk but nothing next to like the rtr companies,,,so it probably cost them about $10 in material... the rest would be labor on the hull... he says it would take him a day to lay it up,,, next morning you could bond the two halfs....once the mold is made,,, its cake walk......so basicaly im confused about the prices on the boats...

I see you are from Conneticut. Ask yourself, How much do you make an hour? Multiply that by 8 or 10 and you have your answer. Most guys do it on the side and they can afford to charge $10. - $15. an hour + materials. If you were going to pay somebody you couldn't build a descent hull for less than $20. to $30 per hour + materials + packaging+ advertising+ overhead and on and on. Bottom line is you gotta sell alot of boats to keep the price down where guys like Phil Thomas, Joe Moceri and others are.......or you could farm the labor out to China??