PIP Triton
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forresterace
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Hi Dave
Welcome. I hope there are more that frequent here.
In order to give my opinion on your Triton, I really need more info.
You are obviously intending to set the boat up for a 4 minute run in "Q" Offshore. On 18 cells? What kind (and size) of cells.
Your Plett, I assume is a 290/30/9, but is it the RPM or the Torque wind armature? Makes a big difference.
The 9 turn wind arm. (either type) is a pretty high turn wind for 18 volts.
Assuming that you are going to run 2400 to 3300 cells, you are going to need to pull in the region of 35 amps to make a reasonably quick 4 minute run.
Specs from Plettenburg:
9 Turn (RPM) - 18v - 35A - 16.6K rpm
9 Turn (Torque) - 18v - 35A - 13.8K rpm
These 9 turn arms look to be much more efficient on 24volts.
I would recommend perhaps the 7 turn Torque wind for your application.
7 Turn (Torque) - 18v - 35 amps - 20.5K rpm
@ around 85% efficiency - This would be excellent!
You would then prop until you pulled 35 amps and got the runtime that you require. All else being equal as far as trim, etc. is concerned, this should be about optimum for that motor, depending on the hull's ability.
Hope this helps.
Welcome. I hope there are more that frequent here.
In order to give my opinion on your Triton, I really need more info.
You are obviously intending to set the boat up for a 4 minute run in "Q" Offshore. On 18 cells? What kind (and size) of cells.
Your Plett, I assume is a 290/30/9, but is it the RPM or the Torque wind armature? Makes a big difference.
The 9 turn wind arm. (either type) is a pretty high turn wind for 18 volts.
Assuming that you are going to run 2400 to 3300 cells, you are going to need to pull in the region of 35 amps to make a reasonably quick 4 minute run.
Specs from Plettenburg:
9 Turn (RPM) - 18v - 35A - 16.6K rpm
9 Turn (Torque) - 18v - 35A - 13.8K rpm
These 9 turn arms look to be much more efficient on 24volts.
I would recommend perhaps the 7 turn Torque wind for your application.
7 Turn (Torque) - 18v - 35 amps - 20.5K rpm
@ around 85% efficiency - This would be excellent!
You would then prop until you pulled 35 amps and got the runtime that you require. All else being equal as far as trim, etc. is concerned, this should be about optimum for that motor, depending on the hull's ability.
Hope this helps.
Just got back from the pond. Chose the 9 turn arm from Plett site using 20 volt graph ( 18 X 1.1=19.8) and using torque can. Wow there really is a huge difference between the two cans. Anyway tried several props today X438 to start and the X637, X642 mod, and ABC 42/55 ran fastest with 42/55, 28 mph top speed but had run time of 7min 45 sec so need to go up in prop. Thinking of trying a brand new X646 I have. Will probably cut off the leading edge ears first. What do you think?
Later,
David Alvarez
Later,
David Alvarez
forresterace
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Dave
When your calculating motor performance or anything in high performance electric, it is usual to figure your voltage at 1 volt per cell. At 40-50 amps the cell voltage drops very quickly down to this level. So in your case you are interested in the armature charts for 18 volts.
In this case, with this arm your going to be hard-pressed to load the motor with enough prop to draw 35-40 amps. Even if you use enough blade area to accomplish this, it's going to be difficult to use enough pitch to get good speed at a prop RPM of only 13 - 14K rpm.
Ideally, you want a prop rpm under load of at least 18-20K for good speed and efficiency.
This is why, Dave, that I suggested a lower turn armature for 18 volts.
When your calculating motor performance or anything in high performance electric, it is usual to figure your voltage at 1 volt per cell. At 40-50 amps the cell voltage drops very quickly down to this level. So in your case you are interested in the armature charts for 18 volts.
In this case, with this arm your going to be hard-pressed to load the motor with enough prop to draw 35-40 amps. Even if you use enough blade area to accomplish this, it's going to be difficult to use enough pitch to get good speed at a prop RPM of only 13 - 14K rpm.
Ideally, you want a prop rpm under load of at least 18-20K for good speed and efficiency.
This is why, Dave, that I suggested a lower turn armature for 18 volts.
Normally I would agree with you especially for sprint racing with old 3000's but not with the new 3300 the numbers that my matcher is spitting out are outstanding. Remember this is 4 min offshore so what I am looking for is only a 36-39 amp draw. Realistically the number is probably almost dead in between 1.1 and 1.0. At 30 amps discharge I am getting 1.14 volts. The ProMatch matched cells are really that good! So if I cannot get the amp draw I want with the X646 I will probably be forced to try removing the Torque ring and starting all over with the X438. Comments?
forresterace
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Removing the torque ring will definitely increase the rpm (kV.) but at the expense of efficiency, but of course there is no free lunch. Obviously you want to avoid going to so much prop that the attendant torque reaction will give handling problems (torque roll & prop walk).
I think the direction you're going is correct but I'm just not sure that 9 turn is going to cut it.
I think the direction you're going is correct but I'm just not sure that 9 turn is going to cut it.
Before I start locating a 7 turn arm I think I will try the X646 both in stock form and modified. The hull so far seems incredibly stable and currently I am running with no turn fins trim tabs. Trim tabs are not necessay with this hull. I have the C.G. about 1inch behind the first step and have run in both glass like conditions and moderate chop. The hull planes perfectly with no hint of porpoising. Turn fins are probably going to be needed. The hull runs so aired out that in hard turns it will spin out and I have flipped it twice.
David Alvarez
David Alvarez
forresterace
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Actually, Dave, I agree - as long as you have that motor you ought to keep putting on more prop until the runtime goes below 4 minutes and see if the speed keeps going up. That is, as long as the hull continues to handle it ;D I would even say to try a X648 or X450 or Prather 230, 235.
Dave I am with Doug here
keep goingup in prop pitch and keeping diam below 50
you may find a P747 works too altho you may need to delift it
the 1900 series props are usually good for hydros but may work out for you
in nitro the v937's are popular on 3.5 mono and I believe Ed Hughey has successfully used 2100 series on his monos - Doug will be in a better position to to provide first hand observations here
keep goingup in prop pitch and keeping diam below 50
you may find a P747 works too altho you may need to delift it
the 1900 series props are usually good for hydros but may work out for you
in nitro the v937's are popular on 3.5 mono and I believe Ed Hughey has successfully used 2100 series on his monos - Doug will be in a better position to to provide first hand observations here
Well,
I tried the X646 and wow what a difference. The motor really started to growl. Top speed climbed from 28 to 33 mph with a lot more authority and acceleration. Today I bought a Prather 235. Will work on this prop tonight and try it tommorow.
David Alvarez
I tried the X646 and wow what a difference. The motor really started to growl. Top speed climbed from 28 to 33 mph with a lot more authority and acceleration. Today I bought a Prather 235. Will work on this prop tonight and try it tommorow.
David Alvarez
Dennis Whitt
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I David Im glad to hear that some one else is experimenting withthis hull.
I am pulling my equipment from my Titan to the more scale and lighter Triton.
I will be running a gear box with a Hacker 11 XL on 18 3300s with a 1.62 ratio this lets me push a x648 for 4 minutes plus in the Titan.
I tried its stepped cousin the Cyntron last year,What a horible handling boat that was this looks more promissing.I still havent found a stepped mono that turns good!
Good luck and Ill be watching for your posts.Hope this helps.
I am pulling my equipment from my Titan to the more scale and lighter Triton.
I will be running a gear box with a Hacker 11 XL on 18 3300s with a 1.62 ratio this lets me push a x648 for 4 minutes plus in the Titan.
I tried its stepped cousin the Cyntron last year,What a horible handling boat that was this looks more promissing.I still havent found a stepped mono that turns good!
Good luck and Ill be watching for your posts.Hope this helps.
Dennis,
I was tinking about buying the PIP Syncron for my P-Offshore boat as I "cracked" up my Keywest this weekend. Since the Syncron and the Triton are of the same design I was hoping that the Syncron would handle as well as the Triton, oh well I guess I will try the H&M Colibri instead.
David Alvarez
I was tinking about buying the PIP Syncron for my P-Offshore boat as I "cracked" up my Keywest this weekend. Since the Syncron and the Triton are of the same design I was hoping that the Syncron would handle as well as the Triton, oh well I guess I will try the H&M Colibri instead.
David Alvarez
forresterace
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David
As a matter of interest, did you order the same wind armature again, for your Plett.
As a matter of interest, did you order the same wind armature again, for your Plett.
Doug,
Wanted to order a 7 or 8 turn but Chris was out and may not get any for awhile, had to settle for a 9 again. I may have a line on arms from europe and am trying to get a 5 turn and a 7turn, should know sometime this week.
later,
David Alvarez
Wanted to order a 7 or 8 turn but Chris was out and may not get any for awhile, had to settle for a 9 again. I may have a line on arms from europe and am trying to get a 5 turn and a 7turn, should know sometime this week.
later,
David Alvarez
Dennis Whitt
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Hi Dave,I did a little searching over seas and the boys that run th stepped monos run there battery packs laid down in the center of the hull against the tube with the pack up against the transome and have a severe negative thrust angle.
How they get them to turn is a mistery!Any pics of your set up?
How they get them to turn is a mistery!Any pics of your set up?
Dennis,
I wish I did have some pictures but I have been spending all my money on boats and have yet to buy a digital camera. Right now I have the CG about 1" behind the first step with 0 degrees of strut angle. When you say negative thrust angle are you referring to a thrust that is pushing the transom up (strut tucked in) like a Hydro or down (strut kicked out) like a Cat?
Later,
David Alvarez
I wish I did have some pictures but I have been spending all my money on boats and have yet to buy a digital camera. Right now I have the CG about 1" behind the first step with 0 degrees of strut angle. When you say negative thrust angle are you referring to a thrust that is pushing the transom up (strut tucked in) like a Hydro or down (strut kicked out) like a Cat?
Later,
David Alvarez
Well,
The new 9 turn came in today and I tried it with the Prather 245. Could not get a run time because there was so much torque that it snapped the flex cable but I recorded a 36 mph top speed. So far so good now to get a new flex cable and quit putting the power down so hard!
Later,
David Alvarez
The new 9 turn came in today and I tried it with the Prather 245. Could not get a run time because there was so much torque that it snapped the flex cable but I recorded a 36 mph top speed. So far so good now to get a new flex cable and quit putting the power down so hard!
Later,
David Alvarez
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