Painters. What am I doing wrong?

[Rusty]

Rey, you're right, there is a wealth of good advice in this thread.
I'm using MC261 which is from PPG's Omni line. It has since changed name from last summer. My paint shop confirmed this name change. They said it is still the same chemical composition.

You're right again on the no reducer for clearcoat. The product information sheet for this MC261 calls for a 4:1 mix with no reducer. I'm using the standard MH263 hardener rather that the even slower MH264. My hardener gives 1-1.5 hrs of pot life at 70 degrees F and it was only 65 yesterday. I wouldn't have thought that it would dry too quick.

As far as two days ago when I shot color, it was PPG MBC AU paint mixed 1:1 with MR187 slow reducer. It was 70 degrees on Thursday.

Back to yesterday's clearcoat. Since there is no reducer, it sounds like it may be a pressure problem. I'll try more air pressure next time. As I posted earlier, when I tried dialing up the psi, it seemed like I was just blowing more paint in the atmosphere and still getting dry spots h34r: .

I just thought of something! Could it be my clear's hardener? I bought it last June and it has been kept unopened in my house (not the garage!) but when I opened it yesterday, some of it around the spout had hardened or crystalized. I had to pull a chunk of it out so it wouldn't get poured into my paint. Do you think the hardener had gone bad and was allowing the clear to flash or dry too quickly ??

At 65 degrees I don't think flashing too fast is your problem especially on your base coats. Base coats should be spray kinda dry to medium where as clear is sprayed wet to get glossiness...base shouldn't be wet and shiny looking. As for your pressure check your gun instructions but I imagine it will be rated at 10 psi at the cap or around 27-30psi at the gun regulator. Use the same pressure for base clear or metallics but if u had them you can change tip sizes. It might be u need to practice your technique a little it sounds like everything else is ok. keep practicing sometimes too much advice can confuse you everybody has their on variations as to what they like and some may be doing it wrong and pass that on to you not meaning to.

good luck don't give up.

 

[Dan Kramer]

reading all this, i think a better gun is in order. i would invest in it. go to an auto supply store,probably where you got your paint, tell them what your doing, they can help you get on track, seems like the gun you have is way too touchy in the adjustments. hvlp also requires more air than a regular gun also. is the air keeping up with the gun?

 

[dannyual767]

Rusty, you're right about the practice. I do think that I'm getting better at this. Heck, I only had the one clearcoat run and that was because of the fan pattern being accidently moved to a small circle while I was refilling paint .

My wife sees all the frustration that I've had with these boats. She'd really like to see me throw them all away just so I could have more peace of mind and less hassle. She also told me that I shouldn't worry so much about the money. In other words, if I need to buy more paint, buy it! If I only use 2 oz of hardener and the other 6 oz goes bad, throw it out and don't worry about it.

None of my boats (with the exception of the little Lil Rascal rigger) turned out good enough to where I wouldn't want to redo them. As far as I'm concerned, they're all still blank canvases (sp?). I can always sand them down and reshoot clear and try to perfect my technique!

I remembered something else! My cheap paint gun was spitting large globs of clear :angry: ! I've probably got a half dozen of them on my 4 boats. Sure didn't make me happy but with all the other trouble I was having, they were way down on the list of worries. There may be a SATA out there with my name on it :lol: !

 

[dannyual767]

reading all this, i think a better gun is in order. i would invest in it. go to an auto supply store,probably where you got your paint, tell them what your doing, they can help you get on track, seems like the gun you have is way too touchy in the adjustments. hvlp also requires more air than a regular gun also. is the air keeping up with the gun?

Dan, thats the funny thing about it; the compressor (5hp Craftsman/30 gal upright) had no trouble whatsoever. If I remember right, in the past, the compressor ran quite a bit during use of this little gun. The last two days were no trouble for the compressor. It hardly ran at all and I was spraying like a madman! Almost like the gun doesn't want or need as much air now h34r: .

The fan setting is waaaaaaaay too touchy!

The gun is clean. I take it apart and use plenty of lacquer thinner to clean it. I've got a cleaning brush that came with the gun. I spray clean thinner back through it after I reassemble as well.

 

[Don Ferrette]

There may be a SATA out there with my name on it :lol: !

Yes there is-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SATA-1-0-MI...sspagenameZWD1V

get the matching regulator also-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SATA-PAINT-...1QQcmdZViewItem

These guys are great to deal with and $258.00 for a minijet 4 is a great price! B)

 

[Rusty]

Rusty, you're right about the practice. I do think that I'm getting better at this. Heck, I only had the one clearcoat run and that was because of the fan pattern being accidently moved to a small circle while I was refilling paint .My wife sees all the frustration that I've had with these boats. She'd really like to see me throw them all away just so I could have more peace of mind and less hassle. She also told me that I shouldn't worry so much about the money. In other words, if I need to buy more paint, buy it! If I only use 2 oz of hardener and the other 6 oz goes bad, throw it out and don't worry about it.

None of my boats (with the exception of the little Lil Rascal rigger) turned out good enough to where I wouldn't want to redo them. As far as I'm concerned, they're all still blank canvases (sp?). I can always sand them down and reshoot clear and try to perfect my technique!

I remembered something else! My cheap paint gun was spitting large globs of clear :angry: ! I've probably got a half dozen of them on my 4 boats. Sure didn't make me happy but with all the other trouble I was having, they were way down on the list of worries. There may be a SATA out there with my name on it :lol: !

A Sata Mini Jet 4 with a 1.0 tip would be an awful nice gun u'd see a big difference I am sure. I personally like the 1.2 for clear. 1.0 for base. You paint store should be giving you free strainers and paddles with your paint...use them everytime. Ebay is a good place to look for Sata. Are u ordering your paint or getting it local?

 

[Don Ferrette]

For clear, DO NOT PUT A REDUCER IN THE PPG PRODUCTS....this will cause a fisheye finish which will destroy your work.

I've never ever had a reducer cause fisheyes & always spray the PPG 2021 clear with the DFX11 catalyst at a 5:5:1 ratio right off the PPG spec sheet. The only time I've seen people have problems with fisheyes are from moisture or contaminants. In my opinion you can't be too cautious about dirt & also moisture as it is a natural byproduct of creating compressed air. I use a good water trap right at the compressor outlet, then a regulator & separator/trap just before the braided hose to the gun then a dirt trap like in the link below right at the SATA regulator at the gun inlet.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DEVILBISS-H...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Dan Kramer]

dont forget to drain the moisture from your air tank. you should have a bottom drain valve . check your air filter also. you dont happen to use any" painters enemy" on your cars, tires , interior, or spray lube do you?

(painters enemy) any armor all type silcone product anywhere near will drift all over and wreak havoc !!!

 

[dannyual767]

Don, thanks for the ebay links for the SATA. That looks like a great price for the Minijet4. I use a small oil/water trap at the compressor and another at the gun. Just for good measure, I bought one of those plastic, disposable moisture traps with the pink looking crystals in them. I installed this at the gun as well. I honestly don't think that I ended up with any oil or water on my work so I think my hat trick of traps worked :lol: .

Rusty, I got my paint "locally". Its a 1 hr 15 min drive to my nearest PPG dealer . Can I mailorder PPG paints and if so, from where? Why do you like the 1.2mm tips for clear. Does it allow more paint so you can get "wetter" coverage easier?

Dan, no Armor All or any other spray type of lubes. Thanks for the reminder about draining the tank. I didn't do that after painting h34r: .

 

[Rusty]

Don, thanks for the ebay links for the SATA. That looks like a great price for the Minijet4. I use a small oil/water trap at the compressor and another at the gun. Just for good measure, I bought one of those plastic, disposable moisture traps with the pink looking crystals in them. I installed this at the gun as well. I honestly don't think that I ended up with any oil or water on my work so I think my hat trick of traps worked :lol: .
Rusty, I got my paint "locally". Its a 1 hr 15 min drive to my nearest PPG dealer . Can I mailorder PPG paints and if so, from where? Why do you like the 1.2mm tips for clear. Does it allow more paint so you can get "wetter" coverage easier?

Dan, no Armor All or any other spray type of lubes. Thanks for the reminder about draining the tank. I didn't do that after painting h34r: .

Yes the 1.2 lets me spray a wetter easier but it can also let you get runs easier too so u have to be careful. I thought if you were ordering your paints u may want to check out House of Kolor that's all I use and love it....plus u can get small quantities of it from Coast Airbrush.

 

[yamaha74]

Might want to try this stuff on you're next paint job... www.endura.ca ... they'll make any color you could imagine,--- it's part A, part B, 1:1 mixing ratio, epoxy paint, and you can thin it out, if you want.... the "only" thing that i've seen remove or "touch" this paint is other endura products... even brake fluid won't melt it...good stuff (but it has "deadly" chemical's in it... best to wear a "fresh air" mask, and head to toe body suit...)

 

[Shark]

Danny,

I just finished painting my A hydro (.21) Today the weather was suppose to be in the low 60's with a high chance of rain... It ended up being 73 degrees low wind and high humidity...

I prepared my reducers for 60 degrees... When I shot my white basecoat, the edges of the spray pattern was a bit dry, I shortened my paint strokes and kept a closer range of the spray. For the next can (4 oz) I cut my reducer down to a 1:1 mix and it went perfect from there. I shot the basecoat with a PSI of 25 lbs,

Because of the unexpected heat, the paints surface was a little drier than I prefer, so I color sanded with 1500 wet paper (water mixed with two drops of dishwashing liquid to keep the paper from tearing the paint) this was just enough to knock the edge off the paints surface and this will allow the clear to lay down flat.

The clear 2021, dcx112...no reducer, shot very well and layed down nice with a PSI of 40 lbs to the gun. I started at 12 noon and shut the garage door at 730pm.

Here are some pics from today:

 

[Mike Stewart]

Might I suggest a trip to Home Depot and pick up a $40.00 conventional detail spray gun.

They are much easier to use than HVLP for the beginner, every adjustment is less critical.

MUCH more user friendly. You need good ventilation when spraying, but your time spent

actually spraying will be much much less from what it sounds like you've gone through.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[dannyual767]

Yes the 1.2 lets me spray a wetter easier but it can also let you get runs easier too so u have to be careful. I thought if you were ordering your paints u may want to check out House of Kolor that's all I use and love it....plus u can get small quantities of it from Coast Airbrush.

Being a beginner, I really thought that I was going to have some serious issues with runs. Turns out that my issues were the exact opposite-too dry. I think that I could've gone with a 1.2 had my gun had that option. I went to Coast Airbrush's website and found that they do offer HOK in small quantities. I'll keep them saved in my "favorites."

Might want to try this stuff on you're next paint job... www.endura.ca ... they'll make any color you could imagine,--- it's part A, part B, 1:1 mixing ratio, epoxy paint, and you can thin it out, if you want.... the "only" thing that i've seen remove or "touch" this paint is other endura products... even brake fluid won't melt it...good stuff (but it has "deadly" chemical's in it... best to wear a "fresh air" mask, and head to toe body suit...)

Years ago I used epoxy paints and I've still got some leftover. They are extremely durable and produce a nice gloss. Really tough paint! Just stay away from using epoxy clear to clearcoat. It'll yellow everything giving it an old dingy look. Ask me how I know .

Because of the unexpected heat, the paints surface was a little drier than I prefer, so I color sanded with 1500 wet paper (water mixed with two drops of dishwashing liquid to keep the paper from tearing the paint) this was just enough to knock the edge off the paints surface and this will allow the clear to lay down flat.

This is good to know. I was wondering if I could do this. My basecoat had some dry spots just like my clearcoat does. The basecoat dry spots weren't real bad. They didn't have that sandpaper texture like I've had with primer ! My basecoat's dry spots just weren't as smooth as the other areas. It looks like my clearcoat covered these "dry" spots just fine but next time I'll hit them with fine grit wet-or-dry paper just to be sure.

Nice looking paint work!

 

[dannyual767]

Might I suggest a trip to Home Depot and pick up a $40.00 conventional detail spray gun.They are much easier to use than HVLP for the beginner, every adjustment is less critical.

MUCH more user friendly. You need good ventilation when spraying, but your time spent

actually spraying will be much much less from what it sounds like you've gone through.

Just my 2 cents.

I used to use a conventional, suction detail gun. I hated how much paint I went through with that thing! One of the seals went bad and I threw it out and moved to a more modern HVLP. Of course I never came close to mastering that conventional gun either.

With paint being as pricey as it is, I'd prefer to learn how to properly use an HVLP. My cheap gun is real, real touchy with the spray (fan) control. It goes from a circle to a fan in 1/4 turn. Then there really isn't much adjustment. It seems like its either a concentrated circle or fan. On or off and nothing in between. I know it sounds like I'm blaming my gun but I'm sure this isn't helping me. Maybe a pro could deal with it but its giving me fits. Besides that, my gun was spitting large globs of clear at times. I've got about half a dozen of them on my hulls as proof. I'm going to spring for the SATA that Don loves! At least I'll know that any other issues probably won't be due to the gun !

 

[Rusty]

Might I suggest a trip to Home Depot and pick up a $40.00 conventional detail spray gun.They are much easier to use than HVLP for the beginner, every adjustment is less critical.

MUCH more user friendly. You need good ventilation when spraying, but your time spent

actually spraying will be much much less from what it sounds like you've gone through.

Just my 2 cents.

I used to use a conventional, suction detail gun. I hated how much paint I went through with that thing! One of the seals went bad and I threw it out and moved to a more modern HVLP. Of course I never came close to mastering that conventional gun either.

With paint being as pricey as it is, I'd prefer to learn how to properly use an HVLP. My cheap gun is real, real touchy with the spray (fan) control. It goes from a circle to a fan in 1/4 turn. Then there really isn't much adjustment. It seems like its either a concentrated circle or fan. On or off and nothing in between. I know it sounds like I'm blaming my gun but I'm sure this isn't helping me. Maybe a pro could deal with it but its giving me fits. Besides that, my gun was spitting large globs of clear at times. I've got about half a dozen of them on my hulls as proof. I'm going to spring for the SATA that Don loves! At least I'll know that any other issues probably won't be due to the gun !

when you get that new Sata you have definitely eliminated the gun....just clean extra good after each use and it will spray like a dream.

 

[Don Ferrette]

when you get that new Sata you have definitely eliminated the gun....just clean extra good after each use and it will spray like a dream.

After posting the links for the SATA & matching regulator I went & ordered a 1.2 tip Minijet & regulator from them. Decided to have the 1.0 for colors & the 1.2 for clears. While I never had any problems with shooting the PPG 2021 with the 1.0 tip I have always liked the idea of having a separate gun for shooting clear and did so when I was using the less expensive guns. And like Rusty said I cannot stress enough how critical proper cleaning is, you'll want to protect that new investment. You will really like the SATA, so much that you'll probably go looking for things to paint. :lol:

 

[Lar'Dog]

when you get that new Sata you have definitely eliminated the gun....just clean extra good after each use and it will spray like a dream.

After posting the links for the SATA & matching regulator I went & ordered a 1.2 tip Minijet & regulator from them. Decided to have the 1.0 for colors & the 1.2 for clears. While I never had any problems with shooting the PPG 2021 with the 1.0 tip I have always liked the idea of having a separate gun for shooting clear and did so when I was using the less expensive guns. And like Rusty said I cannot stress enough how critical proper cleaning is, you'll want to protect that new investment. You will really like the SATA, so much that you'll probably go looking for things to paint. :lol:

I'll third that on the Sata,I have the full size gravity feed! Mine is anodized green,and is the best gun I own hands down!!! :unsure:

 

[Shark]

Danny,

Here is my project, all finished ready to start assembly! Keep asking those questions, it will make you a better painter in no time!

Rey G.

 

[dannyual767]

Rey, you're making me jealous ! Your boat looks great!

Meanwhile, I've got Moby Dick I (AM Avenger), Moby Dick II (SK Daddle) and Moby Dick Mini Me (Lil Rascal) . All solid white, of course. My fourth hull is glass covered, urethane covered bare wood. The Okoume wood grain looks nice.

I was originally going to paint some stripes or other colors on these white hulls before clearcoating. The white basecoat required clearcoating within 24 hrs. Now I've used up most of my clearcoat and added plenty of weight to my boats. I weighed my 48" wood mono before and after-it now weighs 5 oz more. Probably not a big deal to gas hulls but my two smaller nitro hulls might not appreciate the extra weight.

I noticed something else about my clearcoating: When painting, I would clear the bottom first and then flip the hulls over and do the top. Some of the overspray would get on the sides and drift to some of the bottom surfaces and give me a rough texture :unsure: . I would've thought the wet paint on the bottom would allow any overspray to blend right in. On the other hand, it seems like I was having problems with paint blending in causing my dry spots.

By the way, does anyone have any comments about my clear's hardener having some solid, crystalized stuff right near the opening of the can? It was completely sealed and I had to remove a plastic covering but there was solid hardener that I had to pull out so it wouldn't get poured into my clear. Have you guys experienced this or was my hardener bad to start with???