P Ltd/Spec Batteries?

[RaceMechaniX]

True although the guy running 1:15 6-lap times with a P-LTD Hydro is running on the buoys using up 2400mAh of a 5000mAh pack. I would dare say 4200 is the minimum I would run for P-LTD hydro, more for other LTD classes.

TG

 

[HTV Boats]

Tim,

Half or maybe a small group in IMPBA are stuck on the ESC debate. Going to NAMBA's rules would not adversely affect racing IMO. That said Spec/Limited from one side looks to be the evolution of FE. A great inexpensive feeder system to get people involved. It also may be FE racings worst enemy as some potential gas and nitro racers just see toys and warmed over rtr boats. Specs may be absorbing some potential builders of full P,Q,S and T rigs. Those classes are in both rule books with really only the 10000ma limit being different. Q & S (6S-8S) have power potential to rival any nitro or gas boat and not break the bank. Yet few get built as there is no place to race them. They are too fast for the 1/4mile courses some FE clubs run. Open classes are a good option but FE will wear out it's welcome if they win too much. Oh well we can still race the clock at time trials.

Mic

 

[osracer]

Tim, you don't run a fast electric tunnel. I am running 5000 MA packs and I don't come close to using all that is available. If you think we need a battery rule for the club lets talk about it at the winter meeting. I really don't care if someone is running 6000 packs, but, I checked our FE description on our web page and it does say 5000MA. If someone is running more than that I don't feel it is an issue and they probably just didn't notice it. Since most of our fast electric guys are new members I would hate to see them have to buy new batteries when their is no real advantage that I can see by having another 1000MA available.

Just my two cents

Bill

 

[Tim leyde]

Tim, you don't run a fast electric tunnel. I am running 5000 MA packs and I don't come close to using all that is available. If you think we need a battery rule for the club lets talk about it at the winter meeting. I really don't care if someone is running 6000 packs, but, I checked our FE description on our web page and it does say 5000MA. If someone is running more than that I don't feel it is an issue and they probably just didn't notice it. Since most of our fast electric guys are new members I would hate to see them have to buy new batteries when their is no real advantage that I can see by having another 1000MA available.

Just my two cents

Bill

Bill, I have ran FE tunnel in the past and will be again next year. FE is new to 99% of us at our club. I thought extra MAH maybe an advantage, but I was wrong (still learning). I think we are all good at are club. Let's just follow the NAMBA rules. It's all good.

TL

 

[DPeterson]

Tim

Here are my set ups.

P-Limited Sport Hydro - Whip(modified) - 2030 - two 2S 5500 in series - modified m645 - 90 degrees after run. 52-54 mph.

P-Limited OPC - PS295 - 2030 - one 4S 4200 - modified m445 - ambiant after run - fast and corners smooth.

P-Limited Mono - HOR - 2030 - two 2S 6500 in series - modified 645 for sprint - heavily modifed m445 for offshore. Very fast mono in both sprint and offshore. Needs a better driver. Boat needs the 6500 weight for sprint and needs the 6500 for offshore. Its fast. 110 degrees after runs in both offshore and sprint.

P-Limited Hydro - Custom Klaus - 2030 - one 4S 3800-4200 - stock H7 - fast and on rails. 100 degrees after run.

P-Limited Cat - Graupner Systems Cat - 1800 - two 2S 5000 in series - modified m447 - 90 degrees after run. Very fast but unstable. Almost lapped the field at Michigan this year but blew off twice. Put a heavy vise grip on the bow and won a heat.

Other than the Cat these other setups are in their sweet spot. Boats have extremely smooth ball bearing drive lines, good cooling, modified props and set up loose.

CAUTION - These set ups are not for beginners. Took me three years to find these sweet spots. Probably took me three motors along the way. The set ups are real loose - takes some good driving to run them - still working on that part.

Hope this helps. See you 9/28 at your race. Doug

Edited to clarify the battery set ups and added the caution.

 

[Jerry Muro]

Doug what is or are 2030 is this a battery type? I am also new to FE go easy. Also can you tell me how you modified your Whip? Thank You Jerry

 

[Tim leyde]

Jerry, 2030 is the motor. It's the Aquacraft UL-1 motor

 

[Tim leyde]

It does help! Thank you Doug. I look forward to meeting you. Question, seems to me most are putting more than 5000mah packs in the sport hydros, why? Wight?

 

[DPeterson]

Jerry - IMO the stock Whips run too wet for P-Limited set ups if you want maximum speed without cooking motors. I moddifed the sponson depth and angle to compress more air under the hull. It makes the hull a little more risky to blowing off from a rooster tail or a head wind but I put this control on the driver.

Tim - I am using the two 5500 packs to get the CG correct in my Whip. I basically already had the packs and that is what I started with. I tried a couple of 5000 packs and for some reason the boat did not perform well and I even got more heat. I think I am using about 3500 mah after a run.

So really as someone already stated any more than 4200 mah is not really an advantage. I am sure though that different hulls will like different mah packs(weight) just as they like different props.

Doug

 

[ron upton]

I run a lot of spec classes and always use turnigy 120a 45 dollar esc....I am sure ther are better and a lot worse esc....I refuse to run in the clubs that say aq60 amp esc only....its the most expensive 60 amp esc out there and I have been told they only made that rule to appese the nitro guys that got beat by fe boats when they mixed the classes....its a great cheep way to race in my opinion...mount a motor and a lower unit and go racing....I am no championship racer...just a guy that has fun trying to make my boats as fast as possible playing with the legal adjustments (props etc)......just my 2 cents worth

 

[lohring]

Despite rules that are less than perfect, the NAMBA P limited classes have been very successful in the Pacific Northwest. Development by Darren and Brian Buaas in propellers, boat design, and setup have resulted in boats that are now as fast or faster than similar size nitro boats. Because the technical aspects of electric power are mostly settled by the rules, the classes are attractive to nitro and gas racers as well as newcomers.

Similar spec concepts have resulted in a large 1/10 scale electric following. Limited power plant concepts are being developed for 1/8 and 1/7 scale electrics. I wouldn't be surprised if electric (and gas) scale begins to replace nitro powered boats. The concept of limited electric power plants is the future of popular electric racing.

Lohring Miller

 

[Darin Jordan]

Similar spec concepts have resulted in a large 1/10 scale electric following. Limited power plant concepts are being developed for 1/8 and 1/7 scale electrics. I wouldn't be surprised if electric (and gas) scale begins to replace nitro powered boats. The concept of limited electric power plants is the future of popular electric racing.

Lohring Miller

Don't be surprised if there are locally supported Q-Limited rules at some point as well...

 

[Chilli]

The concept of limited electric power plants is the future of popular electric racing.

Lohring Miller

That may be true in your area, but the thought of more limited classes makes my head spin. I tend to agree with Mic who alluded that FE racers are selling themselves short by concentrating too much on limited classes. I'm beginning to sound like a LImited hater. I'm anything but. My son and I together run every Limited class available in our district and the classes do have significant participation in our area. But we also have a N, P, Q, S and T class in the rule book. Why put a leash on more classes? Let the big dogs run!! Not say what your doing in your area is wrong, but it's not for everyone.

 

[Darin Jordan]

The concept of limited electric power plants is the future of popular electric racing.

Lohring Miller

Let the big dogs run!! Not say what your doing in your area is wrong, but it's not for everyone.

The "Big Dogs" are able to run right now... WHERE are they?? It's very, VERY expensive to run a Full Q, or T sized boat... Even Full P is a bunch of $$$.

I see the Ltd classes (P-Ltd is really the only one we "need"...) as a foot in the door for people. Easy way to get a taste of the action.

 

[Duck899]

Does the revolt 30 qualify in the mono class (Namba)?

 

[Tim leyde]

I run a lot of spec classes and always use turnigy 120a 45 dollar esc....I am sure ther are better and a lot worse esc....I refuse to run in the clubs that say aq60 amp esc only....its the most expensive 60 amp esc out there and I have been told they only made that rule to appese the nitro guys that got beat by fe boats when they mixed the classes....its a great cheep way to race in my opinion...mount a motor and a lower unit and go racing....I am no championship racer...just a guy that has fun trying to make my boats as fast as possible playing with the legal adjustments (props etc)......just my 2 cents worth

I'll second that! Me too.

 

[Tim leyde]

Does the revolt 30 qualify in the mono class (Namba)?

Yes

 

[Chilli]

The "Big Dogs" are able to run right now... WHERE are they?? It's very, VERY expensive to run a Full Q, or T sized boat... Even Full P is a bunch of $$$.

I see the Ltd classes (P-Ltd is really the only one we "need"...) as a foot in the door for people. Easy way to get a taste of the action.

I can't comment on where the none Limited boaters are in your area. I would like to know what classes you guys run and whether your events are FE only. Perspective is important. I think full P power is doable on a budget. Not everyone in my district is running Neu Motors and Castle controllers in their P-Monos. People are out there across the country though. On the East Coast, in addition to Limited classes and a RTR class, NAMBA D1 runs N1 Mono, N2 Hydro, P-Mono, P Hydro, Open Offshore, P- Offshore and 1/8th scale. IMPBA D13 runs three Limited classes plus N Mono and P- Mono, plus a S rigger in Open Hydro and I believe a 1/8th scale. IMPBA D12 runs combined classes with nitro boats (kind of an unfair comparison) but in addition to three Limited classes, P-Mono is very popular. We also will have a P and T rigger running open Hydro and a pair of FE 1/8th scales running this weekend.

I too believe that P-Ltd is a great way people to get their foot in the door. That's no secret. I just found Lohring's comments "The concept of limited electric power plants is the future of popular electric racing" intriguing . I didn't know if NAMBA has bigger plans in store for the Limited classes. Not that it really matter. You guys have a successful FE program in the NW because you guys do what works for your membership. That is cool. I'm doing the same for my members and newly emerging area's are finding their way. That's probably why Chris Harris chose to hold off on creating a national class in the IMPBA.

 

[HTV Boats]

Darin, The big dogs are all on a P limited leash adapting the powerplant to every monotunneloffshorehydrocrackerskiff hull they can think of. Too many classes and their funds are tied up buying motors and esc's that for a few dollars more they could have full P&Q rigs. Pick 3 spec classes and herd everyone out of IROC world. They should know the difference between pos and neg, it's on the test.

Sarcasm aside, rather than limit P&Q take a look at the classes and hulls that won't break the bank. Having run quite a few heats in P & Q tunnels and some in P & Q mono either can be more than competitive with Neu motors under $300 and controllers in the same range. Guys are spending close to that for a .21 Nitro motor & pipe. You can get by with less expensive controllers and motors also. Q tunnels with a $100 leopard and T180 will run 55 in heat trim. Our 1520 Castle and Castle ESC on a Vision or Shaman runs 62 all day long and won't finish a heat upright. The 4084 leopard or my 1515/1500Kv is a better heat race boat. Yes you will have 10 guys here talking about 60 mph tunnels. Find someone who does it in traffic. Tunnels are already limited to available designs.

My mono has a Castle 1520/1600 and yes a more expensive 1527-30 will go faster but again in traffic? The bigger motors take 8000 + ma cells which weighs them down to handle better and adds to cost. If I were going to limit anything it would be battery volume. 5-6000ma on a mono and you would have to prop the 1527's down and the 1520 would have parity.

I don't have any on the water info on hydro or sport hydro maybe someone can fill the gap.

At this point will concessions for cost build these classes? The rules are in place and not much to argue about or create more drama and hard feelings. Get a few guys in an area to commit to what they like and don't offer 10 classes with the same power. When I started with P/spec I though full P was an easy transition as you could share batteries. In retrospect I find Q easier on equipment due to less amps pushing controllers to oven temps. Maybe we should pick two hull styles in each P, Q and S and promote them. I could see P mono, Q tunnel or Cat and S sport Hydro. N is out there also.

Mic

 

[ron upton]

chilli my atc brother....fe clubs

1. wave blasters ft perce fl

2, west fl model boat club

two that I know oof right off....the biggest problem I find with FE boats are that gas guys and some nitro clubs ignore us and never put out any classes for us

funny thing about this thread is u can see who has what class boats...spec or Q or gas nitro etc lol