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tampa1330

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
491
I'm having a problem with my CMB Purple Head 40. It seems to run pretty good in the high 50's low 60's, but when I bring the boat in and check the plug the coil is deformed and sometimes broken. It has oil residue. It seems to me like I'm running fat. But when I lean it out it looses power. Then sometimes when I'm running the boat it just dies off or slows and revs erradically. After that, when I retrieve the boat the coil is gone. Today I had to run a smaller prop cause it did want to swing my usual prop. I'm running MC-9 plugs with 50%. Any suggestions?

Here's a pic of the plugs I went through today..............

IMAG0102.jpg
 
Any time the plug element is moved its due to heat. usually too lean but could be a number of things.

Help us help you and answer the following questions.

1) what boat is it in? Is the boat setup per the manufacturers plans?

2) What pipe are you using and how long is it (plug to widest part)?

3) What props are you running?

4) what fuel are you running (brand and %nitro/%oil) and how old is it?

5) Do you have good water flow through the head button?

6) what is the head clearance? stock head button?

7) any engine timing mods?

Just from what I see, it looks like too lean.

Richen it up until it doesn't do that to the plug then check the head tem after a run. If its too cool (you can hold you hand on the head for more that 1 second) the its time to start restricting the water.

If the boat launches easily, shorten your pipe for more speed. 40 boats in riggers are finding speed with pipes approaching the 9" mark and shorter.
 
I had a similar problem with my .45 HR...wound up being I was about a full turn too lean on my HSN. I also changed pipes...not sure if that helped or not.

Check your fuel system for leaks...and try to run a bit richer and see if it helps.

Things I did...

- Added a hopper (was not running one to start)

- richened my HSN one full turn

- changed from an old cooper pipe to a QHP

- turned my LSN out a full turn

Before doing all this, I was burning a plug every run. Even after I got it to quit burning plugs...I found a leak in my fuel system. The leak was added when I added the hopper...my fault.

Sean
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I had a similar problem with my .45 HR...wound up being I was about a full turn too lean on my HSN. I also changed pipes...not sure if that helped or not.
Check your fuel system for leaks...and try to run a bit richer and see if it helps.

Things I did...

- Added a hopper (was not running one to start)

- richened my HSN one full turn

- changed from an old cooper pipe to a QHP

- turned my LSN out a full turn

Before doing all this, I was burning a plug every run. Even after I got it to quit burning plugs...I found a leak in my fuel system. The leak was added when I added the hopper...my fault.

Sean
Sean,

My CMB 45 Doesn't have a LSN. I just replaced My fuel entire fuel system up to the needle. And I didn't see any air leaks in the fuel line, (I had that problem before with this same engine). The pipe I'm running is an AB 45STX with the CNC'd header. It is relatively new but I've run it before and didn't have this problem. My last run I was running the HSN at 1-5/8 turns. I still think it was too rich. I normally run at 1 to 7/8 turns. If I run the HSN and further out I won't be able to start the engine. Right now it bubbles fuel and oil from the plug when starting (I start my engine with the plug loose then tighten at idle). Also during start up I have to lean out the 3rd channel then reset it to 0 once the engine is running. Otherwise I can never get it to start unless I have my finger on the throttle while starting the engine. One thing that was different today is that I was running in the early afternoon. I usually run late afternoon to early evening. This makes a big difference in temperature (my back is proof of that, I'm red as a lobster). Although my engine temp never got over 198 and that's with an on-board Max temp gauge.

Man after to day I'm thinking I might want to pick up one of those HR's or MAC if Andy is still selling them and has parts available. The only thing is my CMB I'm running now is a geraghty mod and has been a powerplant. I hate to think it's seen it's day.

Travis
 
I have never run an engine without a LSN...so I have no idea what is "normal" for them. I am running the stock CMB remote third channel needle for my HSN, and I am guessing it is different than what you have because I am WAY richer than 1 7/8ths.

Have you tried putting your thumb over the carb with it running (idling...or the best it can do without a LSN)?? If so, does it die, or keep running?? I am wondering if it is sucking air some place...

Maybe someone will come along with more experience than I have (which aint much), out of curiousity, let me go see where my HSN is at... EDIT: I am at about 3 1/4 turns out on the HSN. I was closer to 4 at one time, but after finding the leak, I was able to lean it up some. With that said, I am sure I am comparing apples to oranges (I am sure your setup is different).

Sean
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have never run an engine without a LSN...so I have no idea what is "normal" for them. I am running the stock CMB remote third channel needle for my HSN, and I am guessing it is different than what you have because I am WAY richer than 1 7/8ths.
Have you tried putting your thumb over the carb with it running (idling...or the best it can do without a LSN)?? If so, does it die, or keep running?? I am wondering if it is sucking air some place...

Maybe someone will come along with more experience than I have (which aint much), out of curiousity, let me go see where my HSN is at... EDIT: I am at about 3 1/4 turns out on the HSN. I was closer to 4 at one time, but after finding the leak, I was able to lean it up some. With that said, I am sure I am comparing apples to oranges (I am sure your setup is different).

Sean
I'll take a picture of my setup and post it here. Gimme a sec.
 
Here this is the setup. I bought this from one of the guys here in D3. He was mainly running gassers and never got a chance to race this one. I've changed serveral things, but all my mods were working fine last weekend. I tell you what thought, you might be right. I may need to richen it up a lot. I know when I lean it out with the third channel it just dies. Maybe that's just cause I'm running it way too lean. Although it didn't start burning plugs today until I tried to fatten it up cause it wasn't toppin out and getting on pipe. Then I richen it and it's running faster and on pipe but is blowing plugs, and sometimes after two laps. I was kinda thinking it was too lean beacuse I thought the plug coil was getting too hot from not having enough fuel to cool it and deforming and or breaking. I can usually tell by the sound of the engine on the bench when it's dailed in. My setup, I guess since it doesn't have a LSN, kinda boggs at low speed then revs out. That's when I knew (before today) it was dialed in. And that's when I was getting the most out of the engine. Here's what I've got.............

IMAG0103.jpg


I really appreciate the help.
 
I've never tried putting my finger over the carb while running but the way it's setup I don't think there's anywhere to have a leak unless its coming in with the fuel. This carb is weird. I've never even seen a carb without a LSN. there is an allen hex where the LSN usually is. So I removed and thought maybe I could just put one in it's place. But there no hole for the needle go into. It just dead ends into the barrel. That and it's not threaded like a needle. it just a standard thread. I'm thinking maybe I should just try a different carb. I know the scale guys usually run OS carbs (OS9G or something like that) on the green head CMB 67's. I wonder if there's a bolt on carb to replace the one I've got.
 
i run a purple head in a seducer. i have a cooper pipe. i run an os 9b with the low end needle removed(don't need it), and the os 3rd channel remote on the carb. no unusual traits. this motor is the same as the hr cept for the differance in rotor systems. it should run fine with the carb you have on it. i run the os cause it's got a bigger bore. i open the head volume on all cmb 45 heads, as i feel they are a little too small. keep the squish at 010 to .012, pipe length around 10". what pipe are you running?
 
From an earlier discussion here...I think your third channel needle is plumbed backwards. I was told that the fuel should travel the same direction the needle points.

Sean
 
Steve,

I'm running an AB 45 STX pipe @ 9-3/8".

Sean,

Yeah I always wondered about that. I also heard it's best to have the distance between the needle and the carb as short as possible and this set up was the shortest possible distance. I'll try running it the other way.
 
just a dumb question, but did you check your fuel filter ?
That's never a dumb question. But I do have a dumb answer, No I didn't. I have a few new filters on hand too. One thing I noticed as I was checking my filter, I have regular size tubing running to my tanks from the filter. Then from the filter to the needle and up to the engine I'm using large tubing. Not sure how that happened, but I'm sure it would be much better to have a consistant size tubing. I doubt that will keep me from burning plugs but it may help in getting more consistant runs. Hence allowing me to get it dialed in more accurately.
 
i run a purple head in a seducer. i have a cooper pipe. i run an os 9b with the low end needle removed(don't need it), and the os 3rd channel remote on the carb. no unusual traits. this motor is the same as the hr cept for the differance in rotor systems. it should run fine with the carb you have on it. i run the os cause it's got a bigger bore. i open the head volume on all cmb 45 heads, as i feel they are a little too small. keep the squish at 010 to .012, pipe length around 10". what pipe are you running?
travis, try running another (2) washers on your glow plug. if it helps, then get with steve on opening the button up some. too much prop or compression can cause plugs to look like those. been there done that.......... may run good one day, then do that the next. you're prolly right "on the edge", & day to day weather changes can put you over the edge, so to speak.
 
The bowls on those engines come small for running our fuel. I would look at the trapped Compression Ratio etc. etc. You want to be able to run the thing at about 10 to 11 thousandths clearance and anywhere between 8.5 to 10 to one CR.

What does the squishband look like, (sandblasting and or pits) ?

It seems you have covered all the "normal" stuff. If you are messing with the fuel filter you may as well put new o rings in that needle too. :)

Norm Doerr
 
I had a similar problem with my .45 HR...wound up being I was about a full turn too lean on my HSN. I also changed pipes...not sure if that helped or not.
Check your fuel system for leaks...and try to run a bit richer and see if it helps.

Things I did...

- Added a hopper (was not running one to start)

- richened my HSN one full turn

- changed from an old cooper pipe to a QHP

- turned my LSN out a full turn

Before doing all this, I was burning a plug every run. Even after I got it to quit burning plugs...I found a leak in my fuel system. The leak was added when I added the hopper...my fault.

Sean
Sean,

My CMB 45 Doesn't have a LSN. I just replaced My fuel entire fuel system up to the needle. And I didn't see any air leaks in the fuel line, (I had that problem before with this same engine). The pipe I'm running is an AB 45STX with the CNC'd header. It is relatively new but I've run it before and didn't have this problem. My last run I was running the HSN at 1-5/8 turns. I still think it was too rich. I normally run at 1 to 7/8 turns. If I run the HSN and further out I won't be able to start the engine. Right now it bubbles fuel and oil from the plug when starting (I start my engine with the plug loose then tighten at idle). Also during start up I have to lean out the 3rd channel then reset it to 0 once the engine is running. Otherwise I can never get it to start unless I have my finger on the throttle while starting the engine. One thing that was different today is that I was running in the early afternoon. I usually run late afternoon to early evening. This makes a big difference in temperature (my back is proof of that, I'm red as a lobster). Although my engine temp never got over 198 and that's with an on-board Max temp gauge.

Man after to day I'm thinking I might want to pick up one of those HR's or MAC if Andy is still selling them and has parts available. The only thing is my CMB I'm running now is a geraghty mod and has been a powerplant. I hate to think it's seen it's day.

Travis
I'm pretty sure I have the same cmb purple head 45,also done by Rod. Needle 3-1/4 to 3-1/2 out to break in and just starting to lean out after 5 tanks.
 
Definitely lean. And I see you have an ear for bench tuning which is good. I wouldn't go reinventing your engine just yet. It should at least run the way it is.

If you are absolutely sure there are no air leaks then I would say a bad bearing. A bad bearing will make the engine very eratic while running and it will cut off no matter how lean or rich you are running. Your plugs always look lean because you have to run a relatively leaner setting just to run.
 
Definitely lean. And I see you have an ear for bench tuning which is good. I wouldn't go reinventing your engine just yet. It should at least run the way it is.
If you are absolutely sure there are no air leaks then I would say a bad bearing. A bad bearing will make the engine very eratic while running and it will cut off no matter how lean or rich you are running. Your plugs always look lean because you have to run a relatively leaner setting just to run.
When you say definitely lean, is that conclusion made from the condition of the plugs in the picture I posted? What's the best way to check my bearings? Look for play in the crank, in & out and up and down? Also I said before I start the engine with the plug loose and after one attempt the entire head around the plug is full of fuel. One thing I just thought of. I usually add a large amount of After run oil after each run. Then prior to my next run, I pull the plug and turn the engine over a few times with the starter to get the oil blown through. I was thinking maybe I'm not getting all of the oil out and it's lingering in the bottom of the case. I assumed it would definitely be blown through once the engine is running, but you know what happens when you assume. I'll pull the engine apart and check the bearings and clean all the oil out then wipe each part with oil and reassemble. Then run it and see if I have the same problem. The only problem is I'm eating plugs faster than I'm burning fuel. lol.
 
Definitely lean. And I see you have an ear for bench tuning which is good. I wouldn't go reinventing your engine just yet. It should at least run the way it is.
If you are absolutely sure there are no air leaks then I would say a bad bearing. A bad bearing will make the engine very eratic while running and it will cut off no matter how lean or rich you are running. Your plugs always look lean because you have to run a relatively leaner setting just to run.
When you say definitely lean, is that conclusion made from the condition of the plugs in the picture I posted? What's the best way to check my bearings? Look for play in the crank, in & out and up and down? Also I said before I start the engine with the plug loose and after one attempt the entire head around the plug is full of fuel. One thing I just thought of. I usually add a large amount of After run oil after each run. Then prior to my next run, I pull the plug and turn the engine over a few times with the starter to get the oil blown through. I was thinking maybe I'm not getting all of the oil out and it's lingering in the bottom of the case. I assumed it would definitely be blown through once the engine is running, but you know what happens when you assume. I'll pull the engine apart and check the bearings and clean all the oil out then wipe each part with oil and reassemble. Then run it and see if I have the same problem. The only problem is I'm eating plugs faster than I'm burning fuel. lol.
When the plug element is dull you ar elean. Shiny means rich. A good needle well leave the element somewhat dull.

To check you bearings, disassemble the engine. Leave the crank in. Hold a screwdriver to the case of the motor and the handle of the screwdriver against your ear. Turn the crank slowy and listen for grinding or a bump. Also feel for a bump. You may have to turn the crank back and forth and around several times. All it takes is one little bump or roughness. You may look a little stupid while doing this.

Adding at the end of each run is great. I use WD40 for ease of application and have never had a problem after months of storage. The engine should burn or blow out all the residual oil within a few seconds.

Blowing fuel out of a loose plug is standard. The engine while on the stand will not burn all the fuel. This is why it bogs and the revs up when giving throttle on the stand. When you launch the boat a load is applied and you start burning fuel.

You will get many different stories on this but the carb does not have a low end needle because most found that it restricted the high end fuel flow and that it really is not necessary. Lacking the low end needle you will need to give throttle while starting. Most people will close the carb to draw fuel and then open it to get some air while applying the starter. You kind of jog the throttle. Open - Close.
 
Definitely lean. And I see you have an ear for bench tuning which is good. I wouldn't go reinventing your engine just yet. It should at least run the way it is.
If you are absolutely sure there are no air leaks then I would say a bad bearing. A bad bearing will make the engine very eratic while running and it will cut off no matter how lean or rich you are running. Your plugs always look lean because you have to run a relatively leaner setting just to run.
When you say definitely lean, is that conclusion made from the condition of the plugs in the picture I posted? What's the best way to check my bearings? Look for play in the crank, in & out and up and down? Also I said before I start the engine with the plug loose and after one attempt the entire head around the plug is full of fuel. One thing I just thought of. I usually add a large amount of After run oil after each run. Then prior to my next run, I pull the plug and turn the engine over a few times with the starter to get the oil blown through. I was thinking maybe I'm not getting all of the oil out and it's lingering in the bottom of the case. I assumed it would definitely be blown through once the engine is running, but you know what happens when you assume. I'll pull the engine apart and check the bearings and clean all the oil out then wipe each part with oil and reassemble. Then run it and see if I have the same problem. The only problem is I'm eating plugs faster than I'm burning fuel. lol.
When the plug element is dull you ar elean. Shiny means rich. A good needle well leave the element somewhat dull.

To check you bearings, disassemble the engine. Leave the crank in. Hold a screwdriver to the case of the motor and the handle of the screwdriver against your ear. Turn the crank slowy and listen for grinding or a bump. Also feel for a bump. You may have to turn the crank back and forth and around several times. All it takes is one little bump or roughness. You may look a little stupid while doing this.

Adding at the end of each run is great. I use WD40 for ease of application and have never had a problem after months of storage. The engine should burn or blow out all the residual oil within a few seconds.

Blowing fuel out of a loose plug is standard. The engine while on the stand will not burn all the fuel. This is why it bogs and the revs up when giving throttle on the stand. When you launch the boat a load is applied and you start burning fuel.

You will get many different stories on this but the carb does not have a low end needle because most found that it restricted the high end fuel flow and that it really is not necessary. Lacking the low end needle you will need to give throttle while starting. Most people will close the carb to draw fuel and then open it to get some air while applying the starter. You kind of jog the throttle. Open - Close.
Thanks for help. I have a bit of direction now. I think I know what needs to happen next time I run. I'm going to do like i said and break down the engine, check the bearings, and try running it a bit on fat side. I only have one more new plug left so I hope this works. I gone through a whole card in the past few weeks. ouch!
 
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