Need Plug Volume

[Marty Davis]

I need someone with great measuring capability to check the volume of a glow plug in cc. Interested in the area of the plug that the plug wire is in less the wire area. Another way to put it is if you had a plug upside down, how much of a cc would it take to fill it? I don't have the capability to measure the chamber where the wire is enclosed as well as the wire size. If someone can either do a super accurate cc measurement with liquid or do a precise measurement of the inside area less the area of the wire, I would appreciate it.

Contact me and let me know if you have this capability?

Marty Davis

 

[tnrcboatracer]

What level of accuracy do you require? Is the nearest 0.01cc good enough? Or are you looking for better (0.005, 0.002, 0.001cc)?

 

[Piston1]

1. Measure the plug hole diameter and depth and calculate volume = [(3.14/4) x (Diameter x Diameter)] x [Depth]

2. Pull element and stretch it. Measure diameter and length

and calculate volume = [(3.14/4) x (Diameter x Diameter)] x [Length]

Volume = Volume1 - Volume 2

Convert to CCs or Cid as needed using appropriate conversion factor.

 

[Marty Davis]

1. Measure the plug hole diameter and depth and calculate volume = [(3.14/4) x (Diameter x Diameter)] x [Depth]2. Pull element and stretch it. Measure diameter and length

and calculate volume = [(3.14/4) x (Diameter x Diameter)] x [Length]

Volume = Volume1 - Volume 2

Convert to CCs or Cid as needed using appropriate conversion factor.

I know the formulas, I just need the specifics of the components...

Thanks,

Marty Davis

 

[Marty Davis]

What level of accuracy do you require? Is the nearest 0.01cc good enough? Or are you looking for better (0.005, 0.002, 0.001cc)?

Jon:

I am interested in either the liquid measured (accurately) or the calculated volume inside the glow plug. This would measure the volume of that area with the glow plug wire displacing the amount of liquid as its mass. I want to be able to get a finer measurement of trapped compression ratio and need to include this amount of volume as part of the analysis.

Brian Callahan indicated that he has a VERY FINE syringe that can measure small amounts, but he is so busy that I can't get him to complete this for me.

I realize that there are several plugs on the market and all will be a little different. It would be great if we had a database of each plugs volume so that those that want to calculate the area of the combustion chamber could do it super accurately.

If someone would like to take this on, it would be great information for all.

Marty Davis

 

[Ray Sametz]

What make on plug. Just breaken your shoes, could'nt help myself.

 

[Ray Sametz]

Whould it be easier to measure head vol, remove glow plug, insert solid plug and measure again. Then calculate difference. Ray

 

[Marty Davis]

Whould it be easier to measure head vol, remove glow plug, insert solid plug and measure again. Then calculate difference. Ray

Ray:

Probably would be but it is difficult to find a 1/4 x 32 solid plug. You also would have to make sure that you had the solid plut EXACTLY flush with the bottom of the Combustion Chamber. It is easy to get it accurate in AutoCAD and difficult to do by measuring. That has been a REAL problem for us. Measuring combustion chamber volume accurately is our nemesis right now and is SUPER IMPORTANT. Turning a head using CNC makes it much more accurate after being designed using CAD.

A good suggestion though...

Marty Davis

 

[Marty Davis]

What make on plug. Just breaken your shoes, could'nt help myself.

ALL of the popular ones.....

 

[Bart Drieghe]

Whould it be easier to measure head vol, remove glow plug, insert solid plug and measure again. Then calculate difference. Ray

Ray:

Probably would be but it is difficult to find a 1/4 x 32 solid plug. You also would have to make sure that you had the solid plut EXACTLY flush with the bottom of the Combustion Chamber. It is easy to get it accurate in AutoCAD and difficult to do by measuring. That has been a REAL problem for us. Measuring combustion chamber volume accurately is our nemesis right now and is SUPER IMPORTANT. Turning a head using CNC makes it much more accurate after being designed using CAD.

A good suggestion though...

Marty Davis

Marty , why not fill up a glow plug (old one of course ) with epoxy ? This way you can use the same plug each time you're checking your volume .

I'm sorry but i haven't got the right syringe to check the plug at this moment , might be able to do that tomorrow .

Ps : normal plugs or turbo plugs ?

Best Regards ,

B

 

[izitbrokeyet?]

Marty,

I use a very small .3cc USP syringe to measure plugs and head volume....it's graduated in .01 ml increments. I have no problems interpolating between ml graduations....I'm sure it will be the same for you if you require the precision.

there's lots of volumetric difference between plugs....easilly .01-.02ml between brands and types

I think there is no substitute for measuring this way.

PM me your address and I'll send you one.

All the best,

KB

 

[Marty Davis]

Marty,
I use a very small .3cc USP syringe to measure plugs and head volume....it's graduated in .01 ml increments. I have no problems interpolating between ml graduations....I'm sure it will be the same for you if you require the precision.

there's lots of volumetric difference between plugs....easilly .01-.02ml between brands and types

I think there is no substitute for measuring this way.

PM me your address and I'll send you one.

All the best,

KB

KB:

Thanks, that is the one that I am using.

I just got a reply back from Brian Callahan who has found something that he says works awesome. Here are the links to that.

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_...asp?sku=0793814

He says to get these needles:

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_...70264&pfx=K

In case those links do not work here are the part numbers:

K-07938-14 and K-25702-64

These will probably be much more than people are willing to spend. Depends on the person....

Marty Davis

 

[Rick Cesati]

Marty,
I use a very small .3cc USP syringe to measure plugs and head volume....it's graduated in .01 ml increments. I have no problems interpolating between ml graduations....I'm sure it will be the same for you if you require the precision.

there's lots of volumetric difference between plugs....easilly .01-.02ml between brands and types

I think there is no substitute for measuring this way.

PM me your address and I'll send you one.

All the best,

KB

KB:

Thanks, that is the one that I am using.

I just got a reply back from Brian Callahan who has found something that he says works awesome. Here are the links to that.

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_...asp?sku=0793814

He says to get these needles:

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_...70264&pfx=K

In case those links do not work here are the part numbers:

K-07938-14 and K-25702-64

These will probably be much more than people are willing to spend. Depends on the person....

Marty Davis

Marty,

I am a chemist and have access to the microliter syringes you mention. I can get an accurate number down to 0.5 uL with my smallest syringe (10 uL). I will bring a plug to work tomorrow and measure it for you: with and without the element. These syringes are gas tight and very accurate.

FYI: The ones in the colepalmer catalog are not only expensive but very fragile with the fixed needle (probably why Brian recommends the removable ones).

For consistency, what solvent are you using for your combustion chamber volumes? Methanol?

Rick

 

[izitbrokeyet?]

I had good results using methanol....there doesnt seem to be too much surface tension.

Rick....can you recommend another liquid?

 

[Rick Cesati]

I had good results using methanol....there doesnt seem to be too much surface tension.
Rick....can you recommend another liquid?

KB,

Hey, hope you are well...good to see you around again!

Methanol is great...low surface tension and good resistance to static buildup (better than the linear alkanes). I was just thinking Marty might want something closer to a density of 1.0 like a chlorinated solvent.

Regards,

Rick

 

[tnrcboatracer]

I also have access to a GC at my work. I'll check to see what type of syringes we use. As for the fluid, We typically use either Stoddard solvent or Naptha (Coleman fuel).

 

[Jack ODonnell]

I need someone with great measuring capability to check the volume of a glow plug in cc. Interested in the area of the plug that the plug wire is in less the wire area. Another way to put it is if you had a plug upside down, how much of a cc would it take to fill it? I don't have the capability to measure the chamber where the wire is enclosed as well as the wire size. If someone can either do a super accurate cc measurement with liquid or do a precise measurement of the inside area less the area of the wire, I would appreciate it.
Contact me and let me know if you have this capability?

Marty Davis

Marty; I am interested in what you are doing with this traped compression ratio measurement. J. ODonnell

 

[Marty Davis]

Marty,
I use a very small .3cc USP syringe to measure plugs and head volume....it's graduated in .01 ml increments. I have no problems interpolating between ml graduations....I'm sure it will be the same for you if you require the precision.

there's lots of volumetric difference between plugs....easilly .01-.02ml between brands and types

I think there is no substitute for measuring this way.

PM me your address and I'll send you one.

All the best,

KB

KB:

Thanks, that is the one that I am using.

I just got a reply back from Brian Callahan who has found something that he says works awesome. Here are the links to that.

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_...asp?sku=0793814

He says to get these needles:

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_...70264&pfx=K

In case those links do not work here are the part numbers:

K-07938-14 and K-25702-64

These will probably be much more than people are willing to spend. Depends on the person....

Marty Davis

Marty,

I am a chemist and have access to the microliter syringes you mention. I can get an accurate number down to 0.5 uL with my smallest syringe (10 uL). I will bring a plug to work tomorrow and measure it for you: with and without the element. These syringes are gas tight and very accurate.

FYI: The ones in the colepalmer catalog are not only expensive but very fragile with the fixed needle (probably why Brian recommends the removable ones).

For consistency, what solvent are you using for your combustion chamber volumes? Methanol?

Rick

Rick:

Brian said to get the removable needle with the flat end. They tend to pick up everything if you get the sharps.

Don't laugh, the best thing that we have found is coffee with cream. Alky takes the numbers off of the syringe and seems to kind of fart out of the vent hole.

If you have something that you like, I would like to know. I thought that I might try Gatoraid.

Marty Davis

 

[Marc Paulais]

I need someone with great measuring capability to check the volume of a glow plug in cc. Interested in the area of the plug that the plug wire is in less the wire area. Another way to put it is if you had a plug upside down, how much of a cc would it take to fill it? I don't have the capability to measure the chamber where the wire is enclosed as well as the wire size. If someone can either do a super accurate cc measurement with liquid or do a precise measurement of the inside area less the area of the wire, I would appreciate it.
Contact me and let me know if you have this capability?

Marty Davis

Hello Marty,

I just measured the volume of a MC9 plug, using a # 701 (10 microliters) Hamilton syringe and distilled water. From 3 repeated measurements on the same plug, I got

- 0.0168 cm3

- 0.0165 cm3

- 0.0167 cm3

Regards

Marc

 

[Marty Davis]

Whould it be easier to measure head vol, remove glow plug, insert solid plug and measure again. Then calculate difference. Ray

Ray:

Probably would be but it is difficult to find a 1/4 x 32 solid plug. You also would have to make sure that you had the solid plut EXACTLY flush with the bottom of the Combustion Chamber. It is easy to get it accurate in AutoCAD and difficult to do by measuring. That has been a REAL problem for us. Measuring combustion chamber volume accurately is our nemesis right now and is SUPER IMPORTANT. Turning a head using CNC makes it much more accurate after being designed using CAD.

A good suggestion though...

Marty Davis

Marty , why not fill up a glow plug (old one of course ) with epoxy ? This way you can use the same plug each time you're checking your volume .

I'm sorry but i haven't got the right syringe to check the plug at this moment , might be able to do that tomorrow .

Ps : normal plugs or turbo plugs ?

Best Regards ,

B

Bert:

GREAT IDEA..... Was much too simple a solution.

Marty Davis