Need input on new product

[BB Mods's]

Some of you know I have been testing a custom made data logger/automated mixture control for some time now, I will be building about 5 samples of each type for the first run.

At this time I only have pipe temp profiles for the .21's, later we will have map's for all engine sizes, but it's not recommended to try these Type #2 units on a 45 or larger engine, unless you know the exact target temp of your pipe, while running under load.

First ill explain the 2 types of controllers I have built and programmed, then the 2 versions of each type.

Type #1 I's a Data-logger that log's engine RPM and head temp (in *C or *F) Easy data retrieval through a plug in SD card module, PC software turns the SD card data into usable graphs.

Type #1 Twin version does all of the above but for 2 motor's.

Type #2 I's a Data-logger that log's engine RPM/Head temp/Pipe temp (in *C or *F) Tunes your remote needle to maintain a pipe temp in the 600*f range (user programmable) Easy data retrieval through a plug in SD card module, PC software turns the SD card data into usable graphs.

Type #2 Twin version does all of the above but for 2 motor's.

So the questions I need answered are pertaining to the Type #2 unit's, specifically how long the delay needs to be, for when the unit starts trying to correct the mixture, to obtain your desired pipe temp, we don't want to fire the boat, have the controller try to go full lean to get pipe temps up, then cause a flame out or dropped plug because the boat was not ready to take a lean needle.

I thought about adding a 3 color LED (for status, Blue = system on and ready, Green = 45sec timer activated, Red = system is running in auto mixture mode) and a single push button that would give the user the ability to arm the system.

Things like target pipe temp, how many seconds delay the mixture portion has, will all be user adjustable VIA software. Later on there will be a program card that can do this without the use of a pc, but graphic LCD's are still pricey, and wont be affordable for every boater.

Type #1 unit's have optional support for 1 high temp probe to measure pipe center temp, but the unit's must be ordered with this option, it cant be added later as the components will be sealed in encasement epoxy.

 

[Don Ferrette]

I would think at least 20-30 seconds delay. Hmm, perhaps even a bit longer so it hits the water rich. Would think the program leaning the mixture before the prop(s) get loaded would not be good? :blink:

 

[BB Mods's]

Yea, I timed a few guys getting there 21 boats ready for the water, and even a few 45/larger boats, about 45 seconds after first fire, most guys are in the water, heading for the back straight.

and the 45 sec timer is only activated when the user is ready (hits the button)

 

[Moparbarn Jr]

The button would work great. On the other hand for automation, maybe have it read the head temp versus pipe temp to facilitate program limiting at certain combinations, i.e. certain head temp for certain time activates system.

Just a thought.

 

[jason cheyne]

could you set it up so that when a desired temp is reached it will activate the system

 

[BB Mods's]

That method of triggering, alone would be to cumbersome, But adding that as a sub routine to the timer would help ensure accurate engagement, Ill code that up tonight and test it.

 

[steve wood]

need to be able to do it from the transmitter

 

[BB Mods's]

I guess I could program the servo channel to arm the system when you move the remote needle back to a certain position. Ill need to test this to see if it's reliable.

 

[steve wood]

I guess I could program the servo channel to arm the system when you move the remote needle back to a certain position. Ill need to test this to see if it's reliable.

couldn't you use the 4th channel to turn a servo,with a cam,that would contact a micro switch. push a button -on, push-off.launch the boat,run a couple laps,switch on,bam,on the needle!

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Tommy,

As it's already tied into the 3rd channel needle valve, why not just have it activate as soon as the third channel has any input after the initial power-up. That way, no need for a timer, no need for a button and extra wiring.

So, receiver gets turned on and the device is passive. The boat gets started and launched, and then once the boat is up and running on the water the driver touches the 3rd channel input on the TX. Then the device switches to active.

Sounds like a great project! Have you considered incorporating a GPS chip and logging speed at the same time?

Tim.

 

[Craig Murphy]

I would have to agree with Tim activation via the third channel would be great, could also allow you to turn it off remotely should something go wrong. On my radio I can program the third channel to a simple on/off button on the hand grip, I'm sure there are others like this.

Sounds like a great project, where do I sign up for the beta program ???

 

[BB Mods's]

as most radio's are not 4 chan, adding the activation method to the 4th chan is not in our scope of work for this project, I might do a few of them up for guys with 4+ chan radio's. I like the idea of the needle movement arming the system, this will also be programmed today and tested.

as for GPS and other features, Yes, we will have add-on GPS, the loggers will also have additional sensors such as barometer / relative humidity sensors environment temp sensors ( temp of air on the water) we can add blue-tooth connectivity, water temp sensors, you name it.

I can get a good price on geiger tubes also for the guy's chasing Rod's radioactively hot engines

The beta program will start as soon as the new PCB design gets here.

I'm looking for 6 SERIOUS 3.5cc racers, at this time I have the following Nitro racers on board.

Marten Davis Single engine hydro Type 2 logger

Julian Conde Single engine hydro Type 2 logger Twin engine outboard Type 1 twin logger

There is R&D being done on gas engines right now, so don't feel left out gas guys, we will have a logger for you!

 

[Bill Britton]

The button would work great. On the other hand for automation, maybe have it read the head temp versus pipe temp to facilitate program limiting at certain combinations, i.e. certain head temp for certain time activates system.

Just a thought.

Bingo, That would be the correct way to do it.

IE... 45-60 seconds after head temp comes up, then start checking the pipe temp.

 

[BB Mods's]

Just about forgot, We will also have gyro modules, and 3 axis accelerometers that will give corner G's as well as relative speed

The gps feature will be for plotting the boats position, speed data from a gps can vary wildly, so we chose to use the accelerometer as it's speed is exact.

B4 some one ask, yes... I do have the ability to add sonar.....

Found more notes from last night's alcohol induced brain storming session....

Looks like the micro SD card holder will be built into the unit, and there will be a F1 telemetry option that gives a team member on shore access to every bit of data coming off the logger in real time, this will be a costly option, and not for every one.

 

[Charles Perdue]

Could also be activated from Wide Open Throttle on the throttle servo. No WOT in the pits or launch, most people only use WOT after it enters the back straightaway after launch. No buttons to push or third channel activation needed. Nothing additional to be remembered in the heat of the battle. KISS

Charles

 

[Marty Davis]

That method of triggering, alone would be to cumbersome, But adding that as a sub routine to the timer would help ensure accurate engagement, Ill code that up tonight and test it.

It would be best to have the system arm when it reaches a certain egt level and then once it is armed and makes a change to the mixture control, you will see if the correct temp is set by seeing if the mixture changes from what you set on the water with your mixture control initially.

Sequence:

Start

Launch

Go to rich mixture setting

Lean it in until correct

At that point, IF the threshold is set correctly, the system should start and there should not be much change in the needle setting that you got by optimizing using your manual mixture control. Have a tiny pot to change the setting a little and then retry. Should make is super simple.

This will take a little bit of experimenting to find the EXACT setting for your particular boat, and adjust the automatic mixture controller.

Marty Davis

 

[BB Mods's]

Charles is right... KISS.... WOT activation it is! I'm still going to add a 3 color led.... just cause I can. . h34r:

Marty, there will be a 25turn trimmer built in for just that, it will offer 1000 steps at 1/32nd servo stepping.

Ok, new rules, the unit's will have a "learning" mode that lets the owner tell the controller what a "normal" mixture setting for that boat, that day, and that prop is. all of this data will be stored in the black book software that will hopefully turn mountains of data into proven setting's for you and your boats, all the way down to different props and pipes for different area's and weather conditions.

 

[Norm Doerr]

In Drag Racing. Just before the car stages they flip a switch to activate the Data Logger and other goodies such as ignition controls, nitrous controls traction controls, (depending on the class).

This way you can mess around on the stand as long as you want without activating the device. As soon as you are ready have your pit guy hit the button, throw the boat in and you have 45 seconds (or whatever you want) before the computer takes over.

 

[BB Mods's]

Norm can I count you in?

 

[Buckshot]

What happens if during mill time, one to two laps til the start, you "idle down" and the unit leans the motor down soo far trying to keep this pre-set EGT that once you try to go WFO for the start and BANG not enoght fuel to keep the motor lit?