N-1 MONO

[Dan Proulx]

There is much more speed to be gained from a 19T vs. a stock motor in N1. The speed gains are considerable in my opinion. While I've never measured it consistently I would estimate between 5 to 8 mph.

One time last year my 19T N1 boat was caught on radar doing 28mph!

In Minneapolis we've adopted the 19T spec and the difference is night and day. I couldn't comment on any of the new stock motors but from last years batch vs. the Trinity Chameleon the difference in speed is stunning.

I'd gladly put my Chameleon powered N1 against anybody's N1 powered with whatever brushed stock motor they wish.

As far as availability goes, at least around these parts the 19T motors are as common as any other motor. And from most manufactures as well - Trinity, Orion, Reedy, Paragon, etc..

Is it the right thing to do for a beginner? I don't know. I'd say that's more subjective than anything else. Certainly at the club level I don't think there's any reason to change what's been working. Our motivation for making the switch in Minnesota a few years ago was because the veterans wanted to go faster if they were going to support the class. And we all agreed at the time that the veterans were needed in order to help the newbies get established.

Dan

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Guys,

I don't know about the other 19T motors out there but the Chameleon has 24 degree fixed timing AND bearings, always did have bearings.

Paul.

 

[crowebar]

Hey Guys,
I don't know about the other 19T motors out there but the Chameleon has 24 degree fixed timing AND bearings, always did have bearings. 

Paul.

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Thanks Paul, Like I said, there is more that I don't know then I do!

I get an e-mail from Aggresive technologies who said he would run a dyno sheet comparrison and send it to me to post it. Could be interesting.

Dick

 

[Darin Jordan]

If anyone is interested, here is Ted Schulz's article on setting up the El Lobo 2 for N1 Mono... It's about as detailed as they get:

http://members.tripod.com/psfastelectrics6/setups_teds.htm

Here is a quote from the article:

"In the photo below I just applied full throttle after coming around the exit buoy. With careful trimming a tuned stock motor can easily reach speeds up to 35 mph or more."

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Hey Ted,

Do yourself a favor (and all of us too!).

Get rid of that incredibly annoying flashing banner! :blink:

KW

 

[T.S.Davis]

Fascinating.

The NAMBA world record is 26.47 mph. Ted need to get himself to the LA SAW.

I gotta read that article.

 

[crowebar]

Fascinating.
The NAMBA world record is 26.47 mph.  Ted need to get himself to the LA SAW.

I gotta read that article.

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Hey Terry, I was actually thinking of replacing my Hacker with one of those Stock motors to get a little more speed! Don't tell anyone!

It must have been a Typo, he had to mean 25, even that is a tall order.

Dick

 

[Darin Jordan]

It must have been a Typo, he had to mean 25, ...

Dick

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I was kind of thinking the same thing...

 

[T.S.Davis]

Dick,

Isn't Gregs N2 SAW record 36 or so? That's zippin.

 

[crowebar]

Dick,
Isn't Gregs N2 SAW record 36 or so?  That's zippin.

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Ya, but it aint no 27 turn in it. I think he was running a NEO canned 10 turn.

Dick

 

[Patrick M]

One item that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that there are two types of ROAR 19 turn spec motors. The fixed timing 24 degree version and the adjustable timing "oval racing only" versions. The oval renditions allow hand wound armatures, any number of magnets and the option of lay-down or upright brushes. I believe the proposed N1 rule change is for the fixed endbell 24 degree motors and it will also allow the quad magnet motors (Reedy, etc.).

Just a heads-up for those who want to experiment.....

 

[crowebar]

One item that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that there are two types of ROAR 19 turn spec motors. The fixed timing 24 degree version and the adjustable timing "oval racing only" versions. The oval renditions allow hand wound armatures, any number of magnets and the option of lay-down or upright brushes. I believe the proposed N1 rule change is for the fixed endbell 24 degree motors and it will also allow the quad magnet motors (Reedy, etc.). Just a heads-up for those who want to experiment.....

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Are the fixed enbell motors rebuildable?

Thanks!

Dick

 

[Patrick M]

Are the fixed enbell motors rebuildable?Thanks!

Dick

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Yep.... the fixed endbell motors are basically a ROAR stock motor with bearings and a 19 turn machine wound arm. The oval motors are 05 mod motors limited only by a 19 turn wind.

 

[Darin Jordan]

I contacted ROAR this afternoon regarding the notion that they are going to replace the 27T with 19T... Here was the reply:

Darin,

Thank for your question regarding the ROAR stock motors. I first

want to give you a little background that may be of interest and tie

our organizations together.

I was a District Director in the IMPBA during the times that

electric boat racing was in infancy and many developments were going on,

including the rules for electric racing and records. It was during that

time that the question came up in the IMPBA of how to define an electric

stock motor for the IMPBA rules. I made the suggestion that the IMPBA

use the ROAR definition because the manufacturers were marking the can

with the ROAR designation and the year. The rest of the members agreed

and the IMPBA began at that point to use the ROAR approvals for

identifying the stock electric motors to be allowed in IMPBA events. Now it

is pleasing to hear that NAMBA is doing the same thing. There are

advantages to that for all of us racing on surface courses, be they the

water or the land.

Now to answer your question. ROAR has just met and there was no

discussion or news from the grass roots indicating that another motor

would take over for the current ROAR 27 turn stock motor in the

advertised stock classes. The 19 turn motor has been researched and brought

aboard for competition in the "limited modified" for oval or "super stock"

for onroad/offroad categories. The 19 turn motor offers us another

division of competition that is a little faster than stock racing, but not

the hyper-speed of the modified classes.

The current stock racing has become very fast in recent years,

comparing equally to the modified classes of five to seven years ago.

Battery and motor advances have produced those conditions. The speed of

the cars has become a small concern, but not to the level where ROAR

will be making sweeping changes to the motors. A move to 19 turn for

stock racing would make this small problem worse than it is perceived right

now. You may see ROAR address this in the future to slow the cars a

little. But, those changes would be more towards the number of cells

used in the vehicle or the length of the races.

As I remember my days in racing the boats, I can see the interest

you would have in the 19 turn motors. It offers the extra torque you

need to launch your boat with the propellers required to go fast. I

would encourage your organization to study the use of 19 turn motors. It

may have advantages for boat racing that wouldn't benefit the cars.

ROAR is currently working to establish a list of approved 19 turn "super

stock" motor manufacturers and products. NAMBA and IMPBA would be able

to benefit from those approvals just as you have done with the 27 turn

stock motors. So look for that in the future.

Good luck with all your endeavors with NAMBA and have good racing.

 

David Lee

ROAR Director of Competition

So, I don't see any indication here that ROAR is changing to 19T for STOCK classes anytime soon...

Again, I see NO valid reason to make this change...

 

[brooks93]

Ok Darin let me see if I understand you.. You are not for the 19T change? I am still unclear where you stand.

all kidding aside.. NO ONE is saying you have to use the 19T motor even if it does get past unless your going to race a national event.. For your club racing and anything else you do a 27T could still be used if thats what the host club decides..

Your looking at the small picture in your area not the big picture of all of NAMBA.

N1 anything is big by you on that side of the states.. On this side its N1 what.. hmm never heard of it..

Like the guys have said it will bring new life to class's that can't make it in racing on a 27T motor ala n1 hydro..

2 to 3 mph for 30 dollars.. Hell I have spent 300 for that to have a good brushless motor..

I didn't see where anyone said ROAR was changing the stock motor to 19 so I am not sure where that came from.. I might of missed it.. The whole reason the 19T thing got brought up was because at one time some one was trying to get Brushless into ROAR as a stock motor where the only thing that would qualify would be the novak system.. That didn't make it but, if it would of you would of been spending alot more then 30 bucks for a Novak system..

So in a nut shell if your going to race at the Nats then you will need a 19T.. If your going to travel to another clubs race that is running a Namba sanctioned race you will need a 19T.. If your running with your club or any club or race that is running 27T then you DO NOT need a 19T

 

[brooks93]

Darin. I didn't mean for it to sound like a slam or like I was flaming you.. after I read it again I can see that it could be taken that way even though that is not the way it was ment.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

So in a nut shell if your going to race at the Nats then you will need a 19T.. If your going to travel to another clubs race that is running a Namba sanctioned race you will need a 19T.. If your running with your club or any club or race that is running 27T then you DO NOT need a 19T

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That is IF the resolution to change the 27T requirement to a 19T requirement passes.

I may be mistaken but, there might be some people opposed to the change.

KW

 

[brooks93]

oops in my mind I did put if the purposal pass's.. but, I guess I didn't put it in writing.. LOL

 

[crowebar]

You said it well Kelly, Out in the Midwest it's N1 what. If it's such a looser then why is it so successful out here? Hey, don't ask, just change it to 19, that will fix it right? And who is darin? He's the guy that has never raced in his life but has several N1 motors based on the Current NAMBA rules. The guy the class is all about.

Kelly, I haven't raced N1 for years and shouldn't have an opinion other then looking at the big picture. Will this be better for the newbie? 2 to 3 MPH justifies having every N1 racer buy a new Motor to be legal under NAMBA? Are you kidding me?

Honestly, I was leaning towards the 19's but the more I look into it the less it makes sense? Perhaps some of the weakes arguements I've seen. And do you really think N1 will be revived with the 19 turn? I don't know how it will but I've been wrong before. My gut tells me it's not popular out your way because your plate is full with other classes. We do well out here with it but don't run any offshore classes. Imagine if we proposed offshore rules which were just as screwy as this 19 turn thing becuse we were sure it would revive offshore out here?

Big picture?

Dick

 

[brooks93]

good point.. I will go back to my hole.. LOL. I to do not race any N1 class's so I guess I really don't have a right to say jack..I blame this all on my inner child.. LOL He has a big mouth sometimes .. ok ok all the time

I guess the point I was trying to make is that If the west coasty's don't want to change then don't (if it does pass) at what race is it required to meet the rules to the T (only the Nats other wise it up to the club) Just like Drobies club.. They run 19T's now at there race in N1. Why Heck I don't know because the like it I guess.. I mean the guys in the CAFE club are running lipos in offshore.. We know we can't go to a race and use them but, nothing in place to stop us from racing them at our CAFE CUP or at our club races.

I guess N1 is huge where they run 19T's at in the Midwest but, everywhere else its 27T and not that huge.. So I guess the 19T purposal is a jump start in this area and a kick in the pants out on the west coast...

Big picture?

won't know the answer to that question until the votes are counted.. Darin might be the tip of the iceberg as far as keeping it 27T but, then he might be the tip of the ant hill.. We won't know until all the votes are counted

The same goes for my beloved offshore purposal that I took heat on for 6 months until we got the bugs worked out