N-1 MONO

[Darin Jordan]

just talk to your club and come to an agreement that you guys will only run 27t

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The problem with that is this... If this is going to be a "National" organization, then we ought to have a National set of rules... How many people have the resources to campaign a setup all year, just to have to get a new setup to go to the big show? Some I'm sure, but is that really how this organization should be run???

I'm sure that our club would stick with 27T for a time if this passes, but ultimately, anyone with aspirations to be competitive and go to the show will be forced to switch equipment...

Not that big a deal for some, a total loss of investment for others...

Additionally, I still don't think that changing this will give the return that it is said it will... how many of you have seen 19T spec motors that turn 38,000+ RPM?? For about $40.00 and a short break-in period, I can have a 27T that will... You can too...

Doing a motor search on Tower... One is limited to only about 3 variations of the 19T motor... WAY more if it's 27T...

Not trying to be argumentative, just presenting the information that I have available to me in an effort to get the whole picture out there and present another perspective on the discussion...

 

[brooks93]

Additionally, I still don't think that changing this will give the return that it is said it will

in your area your right.. on this side it would plus it would revive a dead class N1 Hydro

One is limited to only about 3 variations of the 19T motor... WAY more if it's 27T...

So which one is more in line with a Spec class? Look at LSH that is a spec class.. You really only have 2 motors to choose from not 20 or more.

Darin like I said I admire you drive but, you only see your area and I only see mine.. I don't race or ever have raced N1 so it doesn't matter a bit to me. I am just judging my vote by what the guys in my and other areas that I talk to say.

Your a Namba member right.. then you can write a purposal and send it in.. because right now it says ROAR approved spec motor or something like that.. so if ROAR changes its rules to allow a spec brushless in then N1 can run Brushless because how the rule is writen and you will be spending alot more coin then 30 bucks.

To the best of my knowledge that is the whole reason the 19T spec motor got brought up was because ROAR had a vote on the table to allow a spec brushless in to the mix and everyone wanted to keep it brushed

 

[Darin Jordan]

So which one is more in line with a Spec class?  Look at LSH that is a spec class.. You really only have 2 motors to choose from not 20 or more.

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I don't think N1 is a "spec" class... I never have proposed that... It's a "slow" class, It's a good "starter" class... etc... The gap between the haves and the have-nots is smaller... the speeds are slower... the beginner has a chance to race against the vetran and more reasonable speeds and gets an opportunity to grow as a result... It's just the lowest class on the rung, performance wise... it's NOT a "spec" class... 19T won't be either, unless someone specifically dictates a particular motor... THAT is what LSH is...

To the best of my knowledge that is the whole reason the 19T spec motor got brought up was because ROAR had a vote on the table to allow a spec brushless in to the mix and everyone wanted to keep it brushed

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I heard that, but the ROAR directors letter, which I posted previously, indicated that this was not the case...

We get to vote shortly... Will just have to see how it goes...

 

[brooks93]

We get to vote shortly... Will just have to see how it goes...

Yep.. I personally don't think you have anything to worry about but, you never know..

 

[T.S.Davis]

I heard that, but the ROAR directors letter, which I posted previously, indicated that this was not the case...

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Darin, did it say that? I thought it said that there was no plan to switch to 19 turn in place of 27 turn.

Wasn't Novak pushing hard to get the BL stockers approved and it didn't go through or something? I just can't remember. I suspect the push for BL will continue.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, did it say that?  I thought it said that there was no plan to switch to 19 turn in place of 27 turn. 

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You might be right... I suppose I could write back and ask... What his letter indicated to me is that the 27T rules weren't changing anytime soon, but then, I'm reading it through a Seattle "haze"...

I'll go write back and ask... I'll post the results when I get a reply...

 

[T.S.Davis]

seattle haze

haha

Well at least your aware of it. Some of us here in the midwest see the world through an offshore haze. Wait, there's no N1 offshore. What were we talking about? LOL

No matter which way it goes it's still been just a freindly debate for me. No hard feelings over here.

I think most everyone wants N1 to stay brushed. Going BL would even up the playing field almost too much. Rendering the class nearly pointless. Might as well be speed 600 motors at that point.

 

[brooks93]

Wasn't Novak pushing hard to get the BL stockers approved and it didn't go through or something? I just can't remember. I suspect the push for BL will continue.

Yes thats what I have been saying... That they wanted to allow a spec brushless into the stock class.. Which in turn is how the 19T go brought up.. everyone wanted to keep it brushed in case the brushless thing happened

 

[Darin Jordan]

That they wanted to allow a spec brushless into the stock class.. Which in turn is how the 19T go brought up.. everyone wanted to keep it brushed in case the brushless thing happened

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From the source:

We are not looking to add the brushless system to stock racing yet. We

have written some rules that include a stock definition, but we aren't

to the point of combining stock brushless with stock brushed. There

isn't enough participation with brushless as a whole to address that at

this time.

 

David Lee

Roar Director of Competition

 

[drobie]

They "wanted to allow" but "we aren't to the point".

Dead thread, dead thread, dead thread.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Dead thread, dead thread, dead thread.

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Not dead yet... The vote is still pending... :unsure:

 

[T.S.Davis]

"aren't to the point"

yick!

That's almost like "coming soon". Should we assume that eventually (next year,next month,second tuesday of next month) they will be to the point. If they've written some rules there has to be a reason to do so. We might have to beat each other up again when those rules have a point.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Should we assume that eventually (next year,next month,second tuesday of next month) they will be to the point.  If they've written some rules there has to be a reason to do so.  We might have to beat each other up again when those rules have a point.

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Whatever is decided, it should reference the year and specification for the ROAR rule governing the motors, and from that point forward, it can be considered separate from the ROAR stock specification... ROAR stock rules themselves reference "ROAR 91" or "ROAR 95" specifications (or was it "ROAR 97"??? No matter, you get the point...) No reason NAMBA couldn't do something similiar...

 

[T.S.Davis]

Oh let's throw another fat log on the fire.

The actual rule for N1 reads

A stock class utilizing any ROAR approved motor as defined by current ROAR parameters. 1-6 cells are permited.

Anybody recognize the gigantic flaw in the text? The missing piece.

The 19 turn is legal right now today as we bicker. The whole in that text is so huge you could drive atruck through it. ROAR approved? That's not a spec. That's useless if you don't specify which ROAR approved motor. The way it is written you cn run ANY ROAR approved motor.

You can say that a stock motor is implied but you can't say that it is spec'd. Specs' are my life. No year, no wind, no fixed endbell, no anything specified. "ROAR approved" That's it. That's all. That's what it says.

I hope no entry level racers open the book and build their boat according to the rules. That could be a problem.

Wahoo bring on the N1 boats!!! LOL

Don't be haten.

 

[crowebar]

Oh let's throw another fat log on the fire.
The actual rule for N1 reads

A stock class utilizing any ROAR approved motor as defined by current ROAR parameters.  1-6 cells are permited.

Anybody recognize the gigantic flaw in the text?  The missing piece.

The 19 turn is legal right now today as we bicker.  The whole in that text is so huge you could drive atruck through it.  ROAR approved?  That's not a spec.  That's useless if you don't specify which ROAR approved motor.  The way it is written you cn run ANY ROAR approved motor.

You can say that a stock motor is implied but you can't say that it is spec'd.  Specs' are my life.  No year, no wind, no fixed endbell, no anything specified.  "ROAR approved"  That's it.  That's all.  That's what it says.

I hope no entry level racers open the book and build their boat according to the rules.  That could be a problem.

Wahoo bring on the N1 boats!!! LOL

Don't be haten.

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Hey Terry, I love ya man!

 

[T.S.Davis]

yeah, being a PIA is a gift.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Just thought I'd see if I could be a bigger PIA than Terry!!

OK, I know I'm new here, but I just recieved my NAMBA letter in the mail and I've had time to read through the "proposal" for the N1 class...

With all due respect to those who put their hard work and time into preparing this propsal and who volunteer their time to help run this organization, this "proposal" is nothing more than a sales pitch for 19T motors...

"At least one very active club has revitalized the N1 class by switching to 19T motors."

WHERE is the mention of one of the LARGEST, MOST active clubs having a perfectly healthy N1 program WITH the 27T motors??? If I'm not mistaken, hasn't the the NW also hosted some pretty big FE events??

"It adds a bit of speed and therefore more excitement to the class with no increase in cost" (emphasis mine)...

NO INCREASE IN COST??? Well, first off, a 19T motor IS slightly more expensive than an equivalent 27T (a Chameleon is about $10.00 or so more than an EPIC 27T, etc...)

But WHERE is the mention of the $$$$ it's going to cost all those clubs with members who are currently still running 27T??? Quit successfully I might add...

For our club alone, if the membership as of last year has to make this switch, that's 27+ boats * $40.00 = $1080 if they each have to buy ONE motor... And that doesn't include those who may be running Car ESCs, etc., that are now going to have to be replaced due to the additional requirements of the hotter wind... For those who keep more than one motor around, that's a lot of money to just toss in the garbage... NO ADDITIONAL COSTS indeed!

"Informal polls indication widespread support for the switch to 19T." (that's how it's worded... )

INFORMAL POLLS??? WIDESPREAD SUPPORT??? Did anyone ask US in the NW??? Did anyone poll those with ACTIVE N1 programs??? With 27 PLUS N1 boats on a given weekend??? I know there are more clubs than just the NW that successfully run N1... Define WIDESPREAD??? What was the sample size??? WHERE is the CON to these PROS???

"ROAR is going brushless..."

WHAT??? ROAR themselves said that this was NOT happening in the "foreseeable future"... I posted the letter here for all to read... Since when do proposals contain scare tactics??? Since when do proposals only present one side of the coin??? And WHY would a proposal make a false claim such as this???

I'm sorry, and I mean no disrespect to those who volunteer their time and energy to running this organization, but this is NOT a proposal.... This is a sales pitch with only one aim... to sell this idea that 19T motors is the way for N1 to go. It contains innaccurate statements, presents only a single side of the situation, and presents a false picture of the whole of the situation... Further, it makes it sould like there is no alternative... It clearly supports someone's agenda...

I agree that the rules for N1 need some clarification, but I cannot support this change... It has too many "costs" involved with it...

Change the "19T" to "27T" and the rest of the wording would be fine...

 

[drobie]

"ROAR is going brushless..."
WHAT??? ROAR themselves said that this was NOT happening in the "foreseeable future"... I posted the letter here for all to read... Since when do proposals contain scare tactics??? Since when do proposals only present one side of the coin??? And WHY would a proposal make a false claim such as this???

The proposal was written 6 months ago. That seemed to be the case then.

Read This Thread About ROAR Going Brushless

The NAMBA rulebook doesn't require a Gallup poll before a proposal is submitted. Only 1 District has to vote it in. Procedure was followed to the letter. (And BTW, what's in the rulebook that is currently in the hands of members is not up to date. The rule change procedure has been amended by a vote of the Executive Board. Updated rulebook is in the works.)

Just vote Darrin. It's all been said and it's now in the hands of the general membership.

If 19T passes, you can take a couple of months out of your life to write your own proposal to switch it back.

This is a sales pitch with only one aim... to sell this idea that 19T motors is the way for N1 to go.

Duh!! That's exactly what it is. And you've spent the last couple of weeks making a sales pitch to leave it as is.

 

[Darin Jordan]

If 19T passes, you can take a couple of months out of your life to write your own proposal to switch it back.

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I could write that proposal in about 10 minutes...

You are forgetting one very important point... namely, that not ALL of the membership voting has had access to the conversations from the past couple of weeks...

They are going to get this proposal and only get one side of the story...

When I get a voters pamphelet before an election, it usually contains a little more balanced view of the topic to be voted on...

And you've spent the last couple of weeks making a sales pitch to leave it as is.

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And it's a good thing I have... Otherwise, people might have bought in to everthing that was in that "proposal"... rather than thinking of what was left out...

Let's vote...

 

[brooks93]

ahhh so maybe the next time we can have televised debate between rules.. Or Or You write it in your 10 mins because you know what most of namba wants because of your Club

Darin you have a great Club but, its one club out in the NW and between the 6 people that discussed it and wrote it we cover 6 clubs and 4 districts..

You have a job on the presidental debate team or something?