Gas Outboards

[jydracing]

Ok I was wanting to know if anyone has herd of anything as far as rules. i am working on a gas hull and was wanting to know are the presant outboard rules on the hull requirments going to be rewitten concerning the hull or will they remain the same with a 60 IN max length. I feel the engine sizes will be classified. I just did not want to spend the time and money that it will take to create a quality set of molds and hull and the hull not be leagle. Thanks Jimmy

 

[Gator 340]

Ok I was wanting to know if anyone has herd of anything as far as rules. i am working on a gas hull and was wanting to know are the presant outboard rules on the hull requirments going to be rewitten concerning the hull or will they remain the same with a 60 IN max length. I feel the engine sizes will be classified. I just did not want to spend the time and money that it will take to create a quality set of molds and hull and the hull not be leagle. Thanks Jimmy

Whats up Jimmy Tony here hey buddy there has not been a set set of rules drawn up for the gas outboards yet. A group of us discussed different lenghts and motor size but I do not think we put any of it in stone. If I am not mistaken we said that we would allow the miniumun lenght of 48 inches and max some where around 56 I could be wrong it has ben a while since we all talked.

 

[waltr]

Nothing yet.

There was also mention about motor restrictions.

The majority also wanted to stay with LS motor rules,disallowing after market Billet motors and jugs.

I also would like to put this to bed, so we all are on the same track.

 

[topfuel443]

I need to know also, I am finalizing the entry form for the 08 world champs and need to know what to put on there for rules.... if nothing happens real fast, we will make up our own and post them on the flyer.

The current OB director is Joe Knesek, so maybe he would be a good person to se what the next step shoud be. Basically someone needs to write a proposal for the rules, then it gets voted on by the membership if the proposal goes through. When I had the OB director duties, we were trying to work in conjuction with other sanctioning bodies to be on the same track between the two, but it never materialized. Would be nice if the NAMBA, APBA and IMPBA rules were the same for obvious reasons... But?

I think we should leave the maximum length as stated in IMPBA at 60 inches, we should run the LS class engine specs. I also feel we need a minimum length of around 45inches , but this is all just my opinion

~James

 

[waltr]

James,

The LS engine package is a good start,also, boat the length is also a good range to have.45-60".

One of the sticky points that were brought up before were lowers.

Flex and gear and also if running gears,1:1, or will ratios be allowed.

I don't believe NAMBA has any set rules yet either.

Maybe Joe knows.

 

[Gator 340]

I don't know if any of yaw have spoken to any of the down under guys but they run the the big tunnles in their open class. But I am with you guys we probably need to make a class for them BUT if there are not enough entries at what ever race they should be allowed to run in open what do yaw think. And where are the pics at surely there are other finished products out there. Lets see them..

 

[waltr]

Hey Gator,

Here's a link into my I/W Coppermine gallery:

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...m=816&pos=7

You might have seen this pic before,but it's my Woodstuff gas tunnel.It's one of Mike Crawfords gas boats.In the pic it has a Sikk on it, but now has a CC Racing Zenoah on a Lawless and a SPP Carbon exhaust.There are 2 pages of pics in the gallery.

I also have one of the German tunnels from James,but haven't built it yet.

I'd also bet that you can run it in the open class too.

But they're becoming a popular build and we need a set of guide lines to start with. Another goal is to try and keep the cost down to start with to try and help it grow. Between the hull,lower,pipe and motor,these boats can get expensive in a hurry.Plus, we need to keep it competitive for all and try not to scare most away with Quickdraws, J&Gs, and 2 speed or variable speed lowers.

If it takes off, that we can also do an open tunnel class.

Lets just get it going first.

 

[jydracing]

Well If it would work the hull range could be from 45 to 60 in as far as engine goes there are a couple of ways to do it. to start with run what you brung to help build the class and if the gas outboards want let them enter the open class. that way they can run more that one class. As far as the lower unit As far as i know there are only two people making them lawles, and the one from austrelia. There should not be a restriction on them seeing how the exaust does not run through them as long as the lower unit pivots with the engine and the engine is mounted to it it should be ok. we do not need to prevent anyone from comming up with a better way of doing it.

How about this on the engines the stock class could be a engine with the canister muffler like the cracker boxes had with any engine as long as it is under a certion size and does not have a removable head button. than the modded engine could be every thing else with a tuned pipe up to a certon size engine. I think that if a person wants to put his homelite or ryobi on his outboard than they should be able to race.

Just my thoughts see ya later Jimmy

 

[AFIRacing]

Mininum 44" for that smaller fast gas hull,LSG Rules on engines. Lower's, Well........we don't have alot of choices to begin with how can we exclude any? 60" Max seems alittle bargeish don't it?Jimmy take a Hornet and multiply it by 1.37, suck the transom well back alittle and let her rip!You gotta start somewhere don't ya???

Steve H

 

[topfuel443]

Steve, you want Jimmy to multiply? Lets not forget who we are talking about now.... you know hes just a dumb ole country boy from SC.

Glad to have you back Jimmy

~James

 

[jydracing]

Hi James Thanks Hope you are doing well. Steve 60 in is the impba max. we are at a place now where we could go one of two ways here. We can use the kiss method (keep it simple stupid) or make it so complacated that people might not want it. I remember when the gas clases started there were boats with the popular engines than there were the boats that had the engines that came from the weed wacker( good excuse not to do the yard work and go play). Now look where the gas classes are.

The only classes that are missing is the tunnels.

it was mentioned here about keeping the cost down. well what could be cheaper than being able to use the weed wacker that is in the shead. I know that it is hard to please everyone But you need to start some where. Oh by the way take the hornet miltiply by 1.37 Sorry but i do not have that many toes and fingers. Just kidding I am working aroung 48 in But a new desighn close to the hornet.

There needs to be rules and it needs to start somewhere eather we as a whole can do it or let someone that does not run tunnels do it. I see the class going places. Where it goes should be up to us.

See ya soon Jimmy

 

[waltr]

Well If it would work the hull range could be from 45 to 60 in as far as engine goes there are a couple of ways to do it. to start with run what you brung to help build the class and if the gas outboards want let them enter the open class. that way they can run more that one class. As far as the lower unit As far as i know there are only two people making them lawles, and the one from austrelia. There should not be a restriction on them seeing how the exaust does not run through them as long as the lower unit pivots with the engine and the engine is mounted to it it should be ok. we do not need to prevent anyone from comming up with a better way of doing it.
How about this on the engines the stock class could be a engine with the canister muffler like the cracker boxes had with any engine as long as it is under a certion size and does not have a removable head button. than the modded engine could be every thing else with a tuned pipe up to a certon size engine. I think that if a person wants to put his homelite or ryobi on his outboard than they should be able to race.

Just my thoughts see ya later Jimmy

Actually,

I know of 4 manufacturers for gas lowers.

The lowers from Germany are $1200.How many would you like

And as for as exhaust, we need to run pipes.Almost no one is running stock Zenoahs.That poll has already been taken.

We need pipes to let the motors breath and get a little speed out of them. The outboards will already be slower than inboards.

I want to race,not crawl. The LS package will work fine. No canisters please.

 

[topfuel443]

I have to say I agree with Walt on this one. After seeing the boats run last year, they need all the help they can get in the speed department and it aint going to happen with a canister muffler and a husqvarna.

This is not a "cheap" class to get into, no matter how you slice it.

~James

 

[AFIRacing]

We had an array of input previous to the last tunnel boat champs race,But your right about the class going somewhere,I'm working with a couple fellas on producing that 50 plus , handling gas tunnel,If we can get these to run kin the consistant 50's and turn ,Its over and I MEAN it's over.We won't be able to turn them out fast enough. I beleive if the higher powers can retreive this topic from roughly a year previous we could probably bang out the rules on regs and propose them to Namba,IMPBA. Get them in the rule books and hammer down. Yes I would like to see a (Seperate Scale Appearing Class for the Scale Enthusicissss), but for heat racing enjoyment the KISS method is best.I'm GAME

Steve H.

 

[AFIRacing]

We have pipes, boats.engines,lowers,speed(LOL),Bouy jumping capabilities,props,AND there's no reason a outboard tunnel can't go as fast as a inboard board.Oh Yeah it Can Happen.Average cost to build a gas tunnnel that will run 40-50 around 1500.00 thats not enormous opposed to 1200.00 21 tunnels that go 60's.

Steve H

 

[jydracing]

Hi All Hey Steve a constant 50 mph and handle is ok I was setting my goals a little higher. as far as rules why not start now? If everyone wants to run pipes than that makes it simpler.

Engine. We only need to add to the existing outboard rules to include the gas outboard. for example there could be three classes a 30 cc down and a 31 cc up. With any engine mod and it is ok to remove the recoail and use a electric starter. All engines will use the spark ignition No nitro conversions. and a scale class with a 30 cc down engine with any mod.

lower unit. any thing would be useable as lomg as the engine is mounted to the lower and the lower and engine move togather to turn the hull. No locked down lower units.

Hull. the hulls can follow the curent tunnel hull clasifacations with the max being 60 in.

Well i think that this is simple enough.

Hey james when will the entries be done for the tunnel champs i need to enter and make a few copies for a few around here. Well it is time to feed the critters see ya soon Jimmy

 

[topfuel443]

The entry form is being finalized today and will go out to our membership for approval. When that happens, I will post it up. I would say a week or less, keep your eyes open. 250 boat limit!

~James

 

[LawlessMan]

Hi James Thanks Hope you are doing well. Steve 60 in is the impba max. we are at a place now where we could go one of two ways here. We can use the kiss method (keep it simple stupid) or make it so complacated that people might not want it. I remember when the gas clases started there were boats with the popular engines than there were the boats that had the engines that came from the weed wacker( good excuse not to do the yard work and go play). Now look where the gas classes are.The only classes that are missing is the tunnels.

it was mentioned here about keeping the cost down. well what could be cheaper than being able to use the weed wacker that is in the shead. I know that it is hard to please everyone But you need to start some where. Oh by the way take the hornet miltiply by 1.37 Sorry but i do not have that many toes and fingers. Just kidding I am working aroung 48 in But a new desighn close to the hornet.

There needs to be rules and it needs to start somewhere eather we as a whole can do it or let someone that does not run tunnels do it. I see the class going places. Where it goes should be up to us.

See ya soon Jimmy

Well, here's my 2 cents worth. I make the Lawless drive mentioned in some of the posts and I can tell you that from a manufacturing standpoint, using the ol' weedwhacker's motor is a messy can of worms. The biggest problem I see, and I have looked at many brands of grass trimmers, is the placement of the pullstart at the output end of the motor. The Zenoah marine motor (and the CY and the SIKK) were re-configured by their manufacturers with the pullstart at the opposite end of the motor, which makes it possible to adapt it to an outboard drive. Also, all of the grass trimmers have a clutch mechanism, which might be useful for an outboard setup, if it didn't add to the overall length (translate that to "overall height") and also to the weight. The trimmer motors are also set up to mount the fuel tank off the motor housing and have a lot of extra plastic shrouding that appears to be reasonably critical to the cooling of the motor. Compare a Zenoah barrel with your weed trimmer's barrel, and you'll probably see a lot more cooling fins on the Zen. That's because it has been adapted to run without all the shrouding. I think, if you want to avoid the grass trimming by cannibalizing the motor, you'd do better to put it into an inboard, where the position of the pullstart and the existance of the clutch won't be an issue. I'm all for an economical setup, and I see no reason why we shouldn't start out with a set of rules that allows for some experimentation. A cannister muffler is an easy way to avoid the cost of a tuned pipe, but a tuned pipe may let you go faster, if you want to spend the money. A tuned pipe, even the lightest one (and so far, I know of only two available), will add more weight hanging off the back end of your boat than the heaviest cannister muffler out there. I think the rules should either create two distinct classes (standard muffler vs tuned pipe), or lump everybody together until there are enough boats being run that a distinction is a necessity. As many of us know all too well, the fastest boat isn't always the winner. Skill and luck will often trump speed.

Fred

 

[jydracing]

Hi Fred I agree with you.I think that it would be Better to use a lower unit with a zen or another compatiable engine would be better and add the tuned pipe. I also think that using a tuned pipe is the way to go. that is why when i was talking about the rules on the engine in both classes I put mod would be ok. that way a person could use any exaust as long as it was under the db limit. It was mentioned before about using a few of the outboard rules But that would open a bad can of worms. For example use the stock outboard rules on a stock gas class. this is why it would not work. in the stock ob rules you can not use aircooled parts on a water cooled engine. and you can not mod the factory exaust in the lower unit and the engine uses the lower that comes with it. so in short the stock class you run the engint the way it comes out of the box with any inturnal mod as long as the carb and exaust is factory according to the impba.

now here is why it will not work. the gas engines are born as a air cooled engine and the fins machined off even though the machinning is done at the factory it is a air cooled enging using water cooled parts. The engines are sold with no muffler or tuned pipe or lower unit. that does not meat the stock rules. The only way there could be a stock and mod class would be that the stock class would run the zen 23 car engine that is air cooled and comes with a factory muffler on any lower unit.

I agree with you for now we need to for now do it as a run what you brung to get the class going but i think that we should at least set the engine sizes. that would make two classes. then have a scale class for the ones that like to do the detail work. We need to get the number of gas tunnels up out there first than get picky about the rules that is why all three of the classes could use a modded engine.

I feel that it is easier to get the classes to grow if we include all the engines out there. If we use the LS Rules than all the engines that have a removeable heads even though they are the right cc it is illeagle. than we lose potiental boaters becouse that is what they have lying around and do not want to buy another engine.

Well that is all for now see ya later Jimmy