Gas Lobster Boat Losing Speed In The Turns

[Marty Shallenberger]

Dear Dave,

EXCUSE ME!!! but what are MHR dimensions and who ever said that was the standard the boats should be built by??? I have no clue what an 8910 hull is but I built mine from a kit that was within the IMPBA RULES!!! That's all that matters to me.. I'm sorry but are you contending in this class?? If not then you really have no reason to speak your mind!!! Case Closed!!!

Later!!

Pat

Pat,

I don't know what your problem is but Dave has as much right as anyone to "speak his mind" here on I/W. There was nothing derogatory in his post, he asked a simple question. And the "8910" is the MASTER HULL ROSTER (MHR) number for that particular boat and IS the standard that hulls get built by. I STRONGLY suggest you take time and LEARN these things and then tone down your attitude or you will find yourself riding the sidelines for 30 days minimum............. case closed.

I understand that a lot of people don’t care about rules and that is fine but Pat said his hull was IMPBA legal and my understanding is that IMPBA has adopted the same rules as NAMBA - So what I see is a max length of 57.05 inches to be legal to run in the in the Gas Scale Class - Now if you want to run it as a sport boat do what ever is legal for sport hulls in your organization

These dimensions are from the NAMBA Gas Scale Master Hull roster..

8910 89-90 U-10 WINSTON EAGLE (LOBSTER)

GAS Scale

( 54.55 - 57.05 ) Length ( 22.97 - 29.23 ) Width ( 12.42 - 15.18 ) Tunnel ( 3.78 - 4.62 ) Depth ( 30.78 - 37.62 ) After plane Length

PICKLEFORK DEPTH

( 16.20 - 19.80 )

 

[Tim Strange]

First, this thread is NOT about the scale size legality of Wes's boat....It IS about helping Wes improve the turning capability of his boat!

Second, if there is a question of the size of the Lobster (or any other Gas Scale), that is up to the district scale director and most importantly the five other guys that actually compete in Gas Scale in our district. I am one of them...

That being said, I don't think his boat is out of the scale dimensions. His first estimate of size was was just that... an estimate. His actual posted measurement was from the front to the rear of the wing. The length is supposed to be measured front the front to the rear of the Hull. So it is very likely his boat is within spec.

Wes did a fine job on his build, and I am glad to have him compete at our races. Now if it were a case of someone trying to convert a Gas Sport Hydro, or putting lipstick on a Thunder Boat, I may step up and say something...

Tim

P.S. Wes, did you get your boat sorted out?

 

[Mike Luszcz]

Wes, I think the boat looks great, and runs pretty good. It looked like you had 3rd in that heat, and I know Jeff Austin's hull, the Circus, has a LOT of test time. I think you are on the right track for sure. Excellent build and thanks for sharing your hard work, and for bringing up questions that others I am sure have about this hull. I have sent out a lot of the 1/8th kits, and a few of the gas kits, and your questions...and answers are helping those guys too, so thank you! The Lobster is just flat out a huge hull. I think my 1/8th scale version was around 47"!!

As far as the hull size is concerned...it fits the MHR for the 8910 in the Gas Class (1/6.666 scale). I know, as I did the frame for it!

I know Dave Weagel very well, and I know his questions were not ment in any harmful way. He is a friend of mine, and a good person. We talk numbers all the time on gas hulls, and I know he was just trying to get a feel for the size of the hull, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

First, this thread is NOT about the scale size legality of Wes's boat....It IS about helping Wes improve the turning capability of his boat!

Second, if there is a question of the size of the Lobster (or any other Gas Scale), that is up to the district scale director and most importantly the five other guys that actually compete in Gas Scale in our district. I am one of them...

That being said, I don't think his boat is out of the scale dimensions. His first estimate of size was was just that... an estimate. His actual posted measurement was from the front to the rear of the wing. The length is supposed to be measured front the front to the rear of the Hull. So it is very likely his boat is within spec.

Wes did a fine job on his build, and I am glad to have him compete at our races. Now if it were a case of someone trying to convert a Gas Sport Hydro, or putting lipstick on a Thunder Boat, I may step up and say something...

Tim

P.S. Wes, did you get your boat sorted out?

I tested this weekend and trying different props I got the exit speed better at the expense of 3 mph top speed. That said, my lap speeds are better. I have the balance better but it still sucks in the turns. I have the canard wing linked to the rudder raising the front in the turns but it dosent seem to help much. I'm gonna try turn fins next.

 

[Don Ferrette]

First, this thread is NOT about the scale size legality of Wes's boat....It IS about helping Wes improve the turning capability of his boat!

Second, if there is a question of the size of the Lobster (or any other Gas Scale), that is up to the district scale director and most importantly the five other guys that actually compete in Gas Scale in our district. I am one of them...

That being said, I don't think his boat is out of the scale dimensions. His first estimate of size was was just that... an estimate. His actual posted measurement was from the front to the rear of the wing. The length is supposed to be measured front the front to the rear of the Hull. So it is very likely his boat is within spec.

Wes did a fine job on his build, and I am glad to have him compete at our races. Now if it were a case of someone trying to convert a Gas Sport Hydro, or putting lipstick on a Thunder Boat, I may step up and say something...

Tim

P.S. Wes, did you get your boat sorted out?

I tested this weekend and trying different props I got the exit speed better at the expense of 3 mph top speed. That said, my lap speeds are better. I have the balance better but it still sucks in the turns. I have the canard wing linked to the rudder raising the front in the turns but it dosent seem to help much. I'm gonna try turn fins next.

Wes have you checked where the CG is with the rear wings removed? If it gets it close it will be worth testing to see the effect. I know I'm sounding like a broken record here but speaking from experience with the lobster hull will be a very different animal in the corners if you get the CG where it needs to be.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

First, this thread is NOT about the scale size legality of Wes's boat....It IS about helping Wes improve the turning capability of his boat!

Second, if there is a question of the size of the Lobster (or any other Gas Scale), that is up to the district scale director and most importantly the five other guys that actually compete in Gas Scale in our district. I am one of them...

That being said, I don't think his boat is out of the scale dimensions. His first estimate of size was was just that... an estimate. His actual posted measurement was from the front to the rear of the wing. The length is supposed to be measured front the front to the rear of the Hull. So it is very likely his boat is within spec.

Wes did a fine job on his build, and I am glad to have him compete at our races. Now if it were a case of someone trying to convert a Gas Sport Hydro, or putting lipstick on a Thunder Boat, I may step up and say something...

Tim

P.S. Wes, did you get your boat sorted out?

I tested this weekend and trying different props I got the exit speed better at the expense of 3 mph top speed. That said, my lap speeds are better. I have the balance better but it still sucks in the turns. I have the canard wing linked to the rudder raising the front in the turns but it dosent seem to help much. I'm gonna try turn fins next.

Wes have you checked where the CG is with the rear wings removed? If it gets it close it will be worth testing to see the effect. I know I'm sounding like a broken record here but speaking from experience with the lobster hull will be a very different animal in the corners if you get the CG where it needs to be.

I'm sure you are right! But what's the point? If I cant race that way then it's just a slow "gas sport hydro" right? The rougher the water the more it "pushes" in the turn.

 

[Don Ferrette]

First, this thread is NOT about the scale size legality of Wes's boat....It IS about helping Wes improve the turning capability of his boat!

Second, if there is a question of the size of the Lobster (or any other Gas Scale), that is up to the district scale director and most importantly the five other guys that actually compete in Gas Scale in our district. I am one of them...

That being said, I don't think his boat is out of the scale dimensions. His first estimate of size was was just that... an estimate. His actual posted measurement was from the front to the rear of the wing. The length is supposed to be measured front the front to the rear of the Hull. So it is very likely his boat is within spec.

Wes did a fine job on his build, and I am glad to have him compete at our races. Now if it were a case of someone trying to convert a Gas Sport Hydro, or putting lipstick on a Thunder Boat, I may step up and say something...

Tim

P.S. Wes, did you get your boat sorted out?

I tested this weekend and trying different props I got the exit speed better at the expense of 3 mph top speed. That said, my lap speeds are better. I have the balance better but it still sucks in the turns. I have the canard wing linked to the rudder raising the front in the turns but it dosent seem to help much. I'm gonna try turn fins next.

Wes have you checked where the CG is with the rear wings removed? If it gets it close it will be worth testing to see the effect. I know I'm sounding like a broken record here but speaking from experience with the lobster hull will be a very different animal in the corners if you get the CG where it needs to be.

I'm sure you are right! But what's the point? If I cant race that way then it's just a slow "gas sport hydro" right? The rougher the water the more it "pushes" in the turn.

The point is it will show you where you need to be to make the boat run like you want. I guess I'll bow out now since it seems correcting the CG is not the answer you're looking for, I wish you the best of luck with it.

 

[Patrick Mulvany]

Dear Mr. Weagal and anyone else I may have offended???

Upon an eye opening informational email I now know what MHR is! I'm sorry if I came off on you as some aggressive mean person I didn't know what I was responding to I feel that part of a lapse of memory?? Mr. Ferrette as an administrator if you feel it needed to bench me from this board because I ask where somebodies rules/directions come from doesn't nessecarily make me a hostile person??

Y'all Have a Magical Day!!

Pat

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

The cg is now on the back tip of the bottom of a tyndal fin when the boat is full of fuel. That is after puting 1 1/2 lbs total lead in the tips of the sponsons. The boat rides with less down in the canard wing even with 15 to 20 mph head winds but it didnt help in turning the boat. I figure a wider and deeper turn fin will catch the cg and hang on better in the rough conditions of a 6 boat heat.

First, this thread is NOT about the scale size legality of Wes's boat....It IS about helping Wes improve the turning capability of his boat!

Second, if there is a question of the size of the Lobster (or any other Gas Scale), that is up to the district scale director and most importantly the five other guys that actually compete in Gas Scale in our district. I am one of them...

That being said, I don't think his boat is out of the scale dimensions. His first estimate of size was was just that... an estimate. His actual posted measurement was from the front to the rear of the wing. The length is supposed to be measured front the front to the rear of the Hull. So it is very likely his boat is within spec.

Wes did a fine job on his build, and I am glad to have him compete at our races. Now if it were a case of someone trying to convert a Gas Sport Hydro, or putting lipstick on a Thunder Boat, I may step up and say something...

Tim

P.S. Wes, did you get your boat sorted out?

I tested this weekend and trying different props I got the exit speed better at the expense of 3 mph top speed. That said, my lap speeds are better. I have the balance better but it still sucks in the turns. I have the canard wing linked to the rudder raising the front in the turns but it dosent seem to help much. I'm gonna try turn fins next.

Wes have you checked where the CG is with the rear wings removed? If it gets it close it will be worth testing to see the effect. I know I'm sounding like a broken record here but speaking from experience with the lobster hull will be a very different animal in the corners if you get the CG where it needs to be.

I'm sure you are right! But what's the point? If I cant race that way then it's just a slow "gas sport hydro" right? The rougher the water the more it "pushes" in the turn.

The point is it will show you where you need to be to make the boat run like you want. I guess I'll bow out now since it seems correcting the CG is not the answer you're looking for, I wish you the best of luck with it.

 

[jeffaustin]

Like Don said if it turns better without the wings maybe a more forward CG would help, I have a few sets of rear wings, some are show wings and some are for go, I know your wings are a lot larger than my circus boat but they could still be made very light using balsa and light epoxy cloth, I use small nylon bolts that will hopefully break away in case of a blowover. see ya

 

[SayMikey]

First, this thread is NOT about the scale size legality of Wes's boat....It IS about helping Wes improve the turning capability of his boat!

Second, if there is a question of the size of the Lobster (or any other Gas Scale), that is up to the district scale director and most importantly the five other guys that actually compete in Gas Scale in our district. I am one of them...

That being said, I don't think his boat is out of the scale dimensions. His first estimate of size was was just that... an estimate. His actual posted measurement was from the front to the rear of the wing. The length is supposed to be measured front the front to the rear of the Hull. So it is very likely his boat is within spec.

Wes did a fine job on his build, and I am glad to have him compete at our races. Now if it were a case of someone trying to convert a Gas Sport Hydro, or putting lipstick on a Thunder Boat, I may step up and say something...

Tim

P.S. Wes, did you get your boat sorted out?

I tested this weekend and trying different props I got the exit speed better at the expense of 3 mph top speed. That said, my lap speeds are better. I have the balance better but it still sucks in the turns. I have the canard wing linked to the rudder raising the front in the turns but it dosent seem to help much. I'm gonna try turn fins next.

Wes have you checked where the CG is with the rear wings removed? If it gets it close it will be worth testing to see the effect. I know I'm sounding like a broken record here but speaking from experience with the lobster hull will be a very different animal in the corners if you get the CG where it needs to be.

I'm sure you are right! But what's the point? If I cant race that way then it's just a slow "gas sport hydro" right? The rougher the water the more it "pushes" in the turn.

The point is it will show you where you need to be to make the boat run like you want. I guess I'll bow out now since it seems correcting the CG is not the answer you're looking for, I wish you the best of luck with it.

Don keep talking Im building a Lobsta for a friend and im listening

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Ok I got the rear wing off and im rigging up a new turn fin to try Sunday weather permiting. I'll make 1 change at a time and see what happens.

 

[Patrick Mulvany]

Hey Wes,

Here's a change that has nothing to do with the boat!!!! It may be difficult but from the video I seen you drive into bouy 1 and bouy 4.. Try to make your corners more football shaped making pin 2&5 the focal points and let the boat slide around the turn?? Just don't let the boat dog down and you don't have to pick it back up! At the NAMBA Nats Back in the Day they gave awards for fast heats and on day 1 in 1986 in Dallas/Ft. Worth I held the best time with a .20 Rigger on the last day a .90 Rigger only cut my time by 2/100's of a second!! Since we don't have the deck surface to catch air just don't let it drop!

Later!!

Pat

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Hey Wes,

Here's a change that has nothing to do with the boat!!!! It may be difficult but from the video I seen you drive into bouy 1 and bouy 4.. Try to make your corners more football shaped making pin 2&5 the focal points and let the boat slide around the turn?? Just don't let the boat dog down and you don't have to pick it back up! At the NAMBA Nats Back in the Day they gave awards for fast heats and on day 1 in 1986 in Dallas/Ft. Worth I held the best time with a .20 Rigger on the last day a .90 Rigger only cut my time by 2/100's of a second!! Since we don't have the deck surface to catch air just don't let it drop!

Later!!

Pat

Thats funny! My son said something similar. Problem is, these guys in Evansville are brutal on a guy. I mean if you want lane 1 you'd better not drift to lane 2. Heck, Phil Thomas tried to shove me inside lane 1 on the start. That may be my problem. I may need to start out in lane 6 and apex the turns more...I just hate being out there.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

I have a stupid question? When I set up my classic thunder boat I was told to put maybe a 1.5 degree right angle in the strut for the tork of the motor. Should I have done the same for this boat? Do ALL gas boats need this?

 

[Patrick Mulvany]

In thirty years I have never needed to offset the strut ,rudder or fin to compensate for torque of any motor!! Not even twins but with the twins I wish I had counter-rotated them!!

Later!!

Pat

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

In thirty years I have never needed to offset the strut ,rudder or fin to compensate for torque of any motor!! Not even twins but with the twins I wish I had counter-rotated them!!

Later!!

Well, that answers my question, thanks.

Pat

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Finally got the ol girl to turn. Went through 3 different fins and several positions. The fin that did the job looks alot like a blazer fin. That and a carbon fiber push rod did the job. Now it turns with very little rudder input , hangs on the fin and does not scrub off as much speed . Thanks KenHildreth and Dave Sandell.

 

[jeffaustin]

it is one sweet boat..... wish we could put them in the water at the nitro nats...............see ya Wes

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

it is one sweet boat..... wish we could put them in the water at the nitro nats...............see ya Wes

Thanks. I should be able to keep up with that pink boat now!