blackjack, crapshooter ..........warlock

[Lay26]

i wanted to know is the warlock and the Blackjack baby crapshooters? also where can i get more info on these 21 size hulls are they similar in design?which one has the edge? is there a waiting period for them and what are the prices. oh i did see the previous thread but they are vague. there is no contact info no email/phone numbers. and i know a few people run them, how do they stack up against the hummingbird or vice versa. just need more information guys.

 

[Joe_Knesek]

i wanted to know is the warlock and the Blackjack baby crapshooters? also where can i get more info on these 21 size hulls are they similar in design?which one has the edge? is there a waiting period for them and what are the prices. oh i did see the previous thread but they are vague. there is no contact info no email/phone numbers. and i know a few people run them, how do they stack up against the hummingbird or vice versa. just need more information guys.

I've seen them all and I feel like the Blackjack is te best quality. It's also the most expensive but the quality is much better than the other two boats. To me, it's worth the money. Seeing David Roach and Brad's boats run at Celina makes me feel like I made the best decision going with the Blackjack.

The only thing I wish is that the cowl fit the boat without having to down size it.

I'm not convinced the Hummingbird can run the speeds of the Blackjack and the Warlocks I've seen seemed to need some tuning.

 

[Preston_Hall]

i wanted to know is the warlock and the Blackjack baby crapshooters?

From what I know and see, yes.

also where can i get more info on these 21 size hulls are they similar in design?

Warlok boats - Jon Gambrel - 260-489-1654

which one has the edge?

That's a baited hook! Look out! But I'll bite.

The Hummingbird runs very well in all types of conditions. Just like a Road Runner. Personally I liked Jon's assesment that he runs 70-73mph. The Black Jack boasts a possible 80mph. The BJ may be good or even better than the above but even the best will tell you that basically you won't heat race at 80mph. I am still working on my Warlok but building has been detoured do the possibility of a snake in the shop. It shouldn't be long and I can give you some real numbers on that boat. The Hummingbird I have seen in heat race trim at 70mph. It turns on rails and if you can drive then it is even more competitive. Sane for the Road Runner Extreme, but I saw it going 78mph. Again, in general, you won't hold it full throttle the whole race. Probably all great boats. Don't forget the Ninja from Power Surge Racing Products. I have heard very good reviews about it as well.

 

[Preston_Hall]

I wanted to add one more thing. On a 21 boat the setup is CRITICAL. The motor, pipe, prop, and boat must all compliment each other to run the top speeds and be able to compete. The motors don't have enough power to overcome incorrect setups like larger sized engines. A seemingly minor strut and sponson adjustment could take you from the low 60's to the low 70's. So it is particularly hard to judge a 21 rigger in comparison to others when you really can't make an across-the-board verdict.

 

[shoboat]

Boaters,

Preston said it as well as it can be stated for all boats,setup is CRITICAL if

you want the most performance from these wicked little machines.

Have Fun Testing,

Mark Sholund

 

[Don Ferrette]

I wanted to add one more thing. On a 21 boat the setup is CRITICAL. The motor, pipe, prop, and boat must all compliment each other to run the top speeds and be able to compete. The motors don't have enough power to overcome incorrect setups like larger sized engines. A seemingly minor strut and sponson adjustment could take you from the low 60's to the low 70's. So it is particularly hard to judge a 21 rigger in comparison to others when you really can't make an across-the-board verdict.

I couldn't agree more, set up is ULTRA CRITICAL on the 21's. I personally think my 21 was the hardest to dial in, even more than my twin. Less than 1/2 degree strut change was worth almost 5mph on my 21SGX.

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Freshly painted Blackjack.

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Another view.

 

[Preston_Hall]

Joe, you better put some screws in the motor mount before you run it. Add a pressure line too.

Looks good.

 

[Buckshot]

Hey Guys,

I just got my 20 Hummingbird painted last night. Hope to run it for the first time this weekend!! If runs like my 40 Hummer it should be sweet!!

-BUCK-

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Joe, you better put some screws in the motor mount before you run it. Add a pressure line too.
Looks good.

Preston, I've got alot of work to do before this weekend. I plan to race it at Sumpter if I can get it together. If not, it will see it's first race at the Nats.

 

[warlokboats]

i should not do this but here it goes.

joe who do you know that has one of my warlok boats? have you seen it unpainted to be able to commit on the craftsmanship? i will give brad the benefit that he does make nice boats, but neither boat was running 80 mph at celina like him or dave roach claim. i have a good hunch that brad bad mouthed me and my boats to get his sales. also i think it was very wrong of what he did by coping my idea with this boat. just remember

"theres a differance between an imatator and an inivator"

jon

 

[shoboat]

To whom it may concern,

I think Jon's boat is every bit as nice or nicer than Brad's Blackjack 21.

I do see one up for sale already. It is funny how some people want to

run Jon's cowl also. I think the proof is in the pudding, so we will just have to

wait until a few Warlok's match up to a few Blackjack's.

The Way I See It,

Mark Sholund

 

[mark voorhies]

Well Jon,

Look at Evansville results, your Warlok performed great.

Enough said for now, we will see at the nats.

 

[TimD]

Are they both the same in terms of dimensions?

 

[dave roach]

bring on the warlok i"am ready and for jon to say he did:nt see a 80 mph blackjack have you every heard of thottle control it"s there if you need it.

my 0.02 cents

 

[Joe_Knesek]

i should not do this but here it goes.

joe who do you know that has one of my warlok boats? have you seen it unpainted to be able to commit on the craftsmanship? i will give brad the benefit that he does make nice boats, but neither boat was running 80 mph at celina like him or dave roach claim. i have a good hunch that brad bad mouthed me and my boats to get his sales. also i think it was very wrong of what he did by coping my idea with this boat. just remember

"theres a differance between an imatator and an inivator"

jon

Jon, indeed I've seen an unpainted Warlok first hand while I was in Virginia a few weeks ago. It was Preston Hall's boat. Don't get me wrong. Both are fine boats and I don't think your work is sub-standard. I just said I think Brad's is built better.

I decided to sell my Extreme after seeing a Warlok run at the Nat's last year,even though my Extreme finished higher. Time will tell who's is faster. Chances are, they will end up the same.

I decided on the Blackjack based on the workmanship only because in my openion, the boats are practically the same design. The hardware is nicer and the wood is not sanded through layers like Preston's boat. My boat came with a 3rd channel mount and a custom spray bar to fit the MAC carb under the cowl. Brad built all of his hardware. Your's was not. As for Ron selling his Blackjack, only he knows but i doubt it's because of qulaity issues since he recommended I get the Blackjack over the Warlok. I suspect it's because he owns the only real Crapshooter 21. He never even built the boat and didn't plan on building it until the Crapshooter got damaged.

None of these things are proven to make it faster but it's nicer and I'm willing to spend more money to get the best of everything. I doubt it will have a profound affect on the boat's performance but it's my money to spend as I see fit. I know good boaters that paint their boat with a foam brush. That's their decision. It's just not mine.

As for claiming that your boat is a copy, get real. Both boats are copies of a Crapshooter. Brad is not hiding that fact. I don't see how you have any reason to be offended by Brad building his boat because your boat is not your design. It's Stu's and He was fully aware of what Brad was doing and even supplied the cowl. It seems to me you're the imitator. Brad's the copier. I guess I'd have to ask who's 20 boat is Stu running?

Lastly, Brad has not claimed to run 80. I was the one that suggested had the potential of running 80. Kentley Porter has been all over 80 with an Extreme and I see no reason why the Blackjack can't get to 80 with the right set up. Only time will tell.

 

[Ron Jefferson]

Shoboat: "I do see one up for sale already". What do you mean by that? If you're thinking my kit is being sold because of the quality or workmanship, you're sadly mistaken. Much like Joe. I believe in spending good money for what I feel is the best. Brad's boat, like Stu's is a complete package. Not a kit where the rudder is from Speedmaster, strut from CMD and mount from who knows who. All the parts and pieces fit and look like they belong. The quality is as close to a Crapshooter as humanly possible. In some cases even better.

Jon: Brad didn't dis you or your boat to sell me one of his. Nor was there any hidden agenda to prove the Blackjack is better than a Warlock. I think if you remember back to last fall I was the one that suggested Brad "select" his customers and the results would speak for themselves. I believe I was more of a selection than a buyer with deep pockets. Just like the several Crapshooters I've owned I believe in a complete package. The best boat, deserves the best motor, deserves the best prop and so on. If you take care of the boat it will take care of you, or something silly like that.

The real reason the boat is being sold is that I don't have the funds to support the amount of boats in the stable. Work is slow like for many others and hours are cut back till things pick up. I simply didn't think I could do the boat or the builder justice by completeing the package half way. Besides, it's tough to hang up my own .20 boat when it hasn't been to a race without placing in the top three.

I look forward to running against all you guys with my one of a kind cross between a Roadrunner and Crapshooter. Unlike the 75 plus you guys claim. I'm probably lucky to be hitting 70 but somehow manage to keep up and almost always finish. That's what heat racing is all about, isn't it?

Ron

 

[shoboat]

Ron,

I didn't mean a thing by my remark. I just stated that one was up for sale.

You guys can spend your money however you would like too. It is a nice

boat,but I'm sure they will run very similar in the heat racing setup. And

Ron you are absolutely correct,finishing your races is what heat racing is

all about. And I know all about the economy, I have been laid off for eight

months.

Good Luck,

Mark Sholund

 

[AWaddle322]

i should not do this but here it goes.

joe who do you know that has one of my warlok boats? have you seen it unpainted to be able to commit on the craftsmanship? i will give brad the benefit that he does make nice boats, but neither boat was running 80 mph at celina like him or dave roach claim. i have a good hunch that brad bad mouthed me and my boats to get his sales. also i think it was very wrong of what he did by coping my idea with this boat. just remember

"theres a differance between an imatator and an inivator"

jon

"also i think it was very wrong of what he did by coping my idea with this boat."

Jon,

Unless I am very badly mistaken a UFO was the first copy of a modern day Crapshooter in the 20 class.

"theres a differance between an imatator and an inivator"

In my opinion Stu is the inivator of this design. Some had permission to copy his design and some did not. You didn't buy or agree to exclusive rights with Stu on this 20 design. Brad did not take one of your boats and copy it. Me and you both know they are very different. Brad also did not bad mouth you or your product in selling his boat to me and I would assume that he did not to anyone else.

The reason I chose the Blackjack over the Warlock was all to do with how the front sponson are built and it has nothing to due with balsa or foam. What I recieved, was a boat the resembled a Crapshooter. The motor mount and pipe mount are built similar to Stu's design, not speedmater stuff. Also the rear sponson are shaped like a Crapshooter. You may have tried and decided that the rear sponson shaped like yours to be an improvement. For me I already had a good running 20 boat but I wanted 4 boats (b,d,e and f) that drive all alike. I feel like Brads 20 boat would drive more like my other 3 Crapshooters. Only time will tell if it is true or not. If i am wrong I still have reliable setting on the shelf and I have pissed away more money and got less so they want be getting a virgin either.

TimD. Jon brought his cowl over to my boat and i can tell you for sure that the motor and all bulkheads are not in the same place.

Jon, in my opinion nobody has wronged you in anyway. If you dont like have a competitor, figure out something that makes your boat the dominate boat on the race course and nobody will want the competitors boat.

Jon's Warlock and Brads Blackjack or both very nicely built boats and I have actually seen the Warlock perform very well and I will say at this point there has only one heat that I was impressed with the Blackjack but I do see some very good promise in the Blackjack.

When it is all said and done cant we all just get along and go have a cold one at the end of the day? LOL

Sincerely,

Allen Waddle