.12 rigger questions

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hi i have a situation with my .12 rigger and i am about to turn it to firewood. i have a .12 tz 5 port, stock now , mac 2.5 pipe at 7.5 inches, prather 215 , .130 cable solinger hardware, strut depth set at center to the shoes and 1.5 degress of angle downward, using ferrette 3rd channel needle set at 40 on a mazor flowmeter, it has finally quit chewing plugs, and it actually launched really good today , took off like a rocket and then it just seems to dog out and pull the motor down and knocks itself out. i have tried a y535, y534 , x432, x637, detounged 1440 reduced to 37 mm and i am now on a 215 , it seems to launch the best with that prop , but i do not understand why it is just launching like a rocket and then just dying out. btw fuel is 70 percent redmax , fresh and new.. any ideas before it finds a new home? thanks

terry
 
hi i have a situation with my .12 rigger and i am about to turn it to firewood. i have a .12 tz 5 port, stock now , mac 2.5 pipe at 7.5 inches, prather 215 , .130 cable solinger hardware, strut depth set at center to the shoes and 1.5 degress of angle downward, using ferrette 3rd channel needle set at 40 on a mazor flowmeter, it has finally quit chewing plugs, and it actually launched really good today , took off like a rocket and then it just seems to dog out and pull the motor down and knocks itself out. i have tried a y535, y534 , x432, x637, detounged 1440 reduced to 37 mm and i am now on a 215 , it seems to launch the best with that prop , but i do not understand why it is just launching like a rocket and then just dying out. btw fuel is 70 percent redmax , fresh and new.. any ideas before it finds a new home? thanks
terry

terry,

ive never used a flow meter, but it sounds like it is too lean ..mine run very rich on the bank,have to pinch fuel line to start them and they wont rev at all till on the water. on my .12s they seems to launch a little slow because of being rich and they get going good after about a lap..i run cut down 1440s also about 38mm or x637, x438 detounged..hope this helps MT
 
yea, id say richer also.

and i'm not sure about 70% on a .12???
 
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yea, id say richer also.
and i'm not sure about 70% on a .12???

i run 65% tom its all good!
thanks guys i will give her hell.. and that is what mine was running like also , it was slobbering and wouldnt rev at all, i guess it is back to square one..lol later fellas and if anyone else can tell me how wrong i am doing things that is ok with me. thanks

terry
 
Did you say you are 1.5 negative on the strut, if so try running the strut flat and work from 0 either way you see it needs it.

Paul
 
Terry

Increase the angle of attack on the front sponsons. I will bet there to shallow. Back in my early days of finding out the secrets of riggers on my own, I designed a 21 rigger that did the same thing you are experiencing. It would launch ok then crap out about 50-75 feet out. I tried everything from props, pipes, to thinking it was fuel supply issues. One day out of frustration I gave the front sponsons angle of attack some careful thought. I did something desperate and removed a bunch of shims from the rear boom. Started her up and launched ......That was the ticket, it was a whole new boat. It would launch easy , slow down and I was all smiles.This might not be your problem, but since you seem to have tried everything else. Try what I said, It may well be the issue. If it is the problem. You can adjust the AOA for best launch and ride in rough water. When I use to race my scratch built 45 rigger, I would change the rear boom shims depending on the waters conditions sometimes every heat. If it was windy and rough, I would add some to the rear boom to tighten up the boat. if it was real calm, I would remove some to loosen the boat up. I won many races by dialing in the boat to the lake conditions. Angle of attack is very critical to rigger sponsons and airplane wings too !! I need to start racing again ......its been to long... LOL.

John
 
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Wecome to .12 riggers Terry. :unsure: What make of hull are you running? I have a Bantam that is troubling myself. It launches really slow and IF it catches before in bogs down it runs awsome. But getting her to plan off before she dies is a pain in the behind.

Mark
 
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Wecome to .12 riggers Terry. :unsure: What make of hull are you running? I have a Bantam that is troubling myself. It launches really slow and IF it catches before in bogs down it runs awsome. But getting her to plan off before she dies is a pain in the behind.
Mark
thanks guys i will try the aoa on the front spoons , and it is a bantam as well it is a one off i belive it kinda looks like a sgx eagle.. cute little booger just wont run..lol . well it is like this ..ifin i dont ever get it to run , i will be nice and warm in the shop this winter for a couple minutes..lol thanks guys.

terminator
 
Wecome to .12 riggers Terry. :unsure: What make of hull are you running? I have a Bantam that is troubling myself. It launches really slow and IF it catches before in bogs down it runs awsome. But getting her to plan off before she dies is a pain in the behind.
Mark
thanks guys i will try the aoa on the front spoons , and it is a bantam as well it is a one off i belive it kinda looks like a sgx eagle.. cute little booger just wont run..lol . well it is like this ..ifin i dont ever get it to run , i will be nice and warm in the shop this winter for a couple minutes..lol thanks guys.

terminator
T..... talk of firewood is NOT an option..... instill this one thought: it's a machine... you made it... you cant allow a 24 inch machine to win the battle..... Remember me tellin ya welcome to boating......

If, guys are suggesting AOA issues with the hull now, remember, my asking you to get a set up board built awhile back?.... Thats why, I brought my digital finder down there before we even got it wet.... Find a serious flat sheet of material, cut a slot in it for the fin, so the boat will sit flat on the board, and we'll go from there..... you'll need the board for all your boats anyway... ( scrap piece of corian countertop) Knowing, where the hull is at, what any angle changes you make, do, is a critical element to hydroplane performance....

I reset both my eagle, and my ninja over the winter, which takes an inordinate amount of time, BUT, both boats are now running leaps and bounds better than they ever have, , and, knowing where they are at, I can make more changes yet this spring and gain further.....

Built an ancient very first generation eagle 21 this week for fun.... it has the EXACT issues your .12 has.... fought it a few hours yesterday..... nothing.... guaranteed this boat will be "on the board today" searching for an answer, in the massive overall picture, I'll approach it positively.... hull: ie: i assumed the previous unknown setup would work, and could be a factor........ motor: I built a super frankenstein parts joke motor, scrap parts pipe, and possibly hurt myself there..... went through a myriad of standard 21 props during test trials, and didnt gain any more than the usual 10 foot launch youre familiar with, so......

The boat will go on the board, I'm going to install an engine i know will run, at a pipe length known to work, and use a prop known to at least allow me to see what any changes I've done will do......

Eliminate the variables, slowly, and one at a time..... your boat is very nice, the potential is there, solving issues really isnt all that hard, it's just time......

While .21's are the ultimate challenge in setup and motor pickiness for me, also, I'm really unfamiliar with any .12 motor/pipe information, nor, do we have any setup #'s for your hull, which, would be a great help. I can take previously learned information, and apply it to your hull, and we can start to eliminate variables.....

Busier than a cat in a litter box, i'll attempt to see you in chat, or call..... for sure you have the mechanical aspect to bring the hull around, so, dive in, grit your teeth, and it'll happen.......

6' 200 man 0, Bantam 1..... ring the bell...... lets go brother!..... I'll be in touch.......
 
ok larson as you so well always put stuff, but i am 275 pounds ..lol , i will make a board man, we have just been fighting the engine deal so long i seriously didnt get it done.. later on chat we talk, see ya mike.

terry
 
Terry,

These little riggers do work great. I made some changes to mine that was suggested to me by Rod Geraghty and it is a different boat all together now. All I can say is WOW! Thanks Rod. :)

Mark
 
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Terry,
These little riggers do work great. I made some changes to mine that was suggested to me by Rod Geraghty and it is a different boat all together now. All I can say is WOW! Thanks Rod. :)

Mark
rigger is runnin she hooked hard today and took , it was on a y435 prop and ran good .. like 38 mph, then we went to a y535 and it was better , and made a atempt for the prather 215 and while i will not disclose the speeds we were attaining during testing , all i can say is wow.. we are trying a x637 when i get it done and a seriously worked 1440 , we should be ready for milan this weekend , and hope you guys are coming. and the third channel needle is a great thing, and i want to personally thank my good friend chris wood and his dad steve wood for all their help throughout today and everyother time i have asked for ti.. chris is a true friend of mine and a great person for tech answers.. just wait till he builds a .12 ...look out..lol

terry
 
Really glad to hear you guys are getting your Bantams running wel. They are actually VERY good boats. I have ALWAYS had to lunch mine like a bowling ball. They have a LONG after plane for a .12. THis makes a tough launch but a GREAT boat in race water. (IMO) I've been out of the loop for a while... I hope to get building and running real soon.

New job, 5 an 7 year old boys,... grass with TOO MUCH fertilizer on it.... I must be getting old...

With a good motor and set up right,. these guys will run 55-60 all the time.
 
Really glad to hear you guys are getting your Bantams running wel. They are actually VERY good boats. I have ALWAYS had to lunch mine like a bowling ball. They have a LONG after plane for a .12. THis makes a tough launch but a GREAT boat in race water. (IMO) I've been out of the loop for a while... I hope to get building and running real soon.
New job, 5 an 7 year old boys,... grass with TOO MUCH fertilizer on it.... I must be getting old...

With a good motor and set up right,. these guys will run 55-60 all the time.

Anthany it is NOT the afterplane that makes them hard to launch. It is the shape of the bottom side of the sponsons. I know, I changed mine and I can just about drop it in the pond and it will launch like a rocket know. This is with an unmoded .12 onroad car engine.

Mark
 

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