RTR class(es)

[Ron Olson]

Chris, the Vegas boats come in 5 or 6 different colors so customizing one would be no problem. Could you just imagine seeing 6 identical boats on the water at once? That would be a mess! Decals come with the Vegas's so you have the option of putting them on or not.

They boats are aorund 6 MPH faster out of the box than the Miss Bud/LLumar/Elam's.

Changing turn fins, running whatever prop and percentage of nitro would be optional. The rear wing is heavy so no one says that it has to be used as there could be some boats that have lost theirs as a "casualty of war".

The rules could state that only the pull-starter must be used as what the ABS class rules stated but I see no advantage over using an electric starter as long as the pull-starter has not been removed.

Most of the current RTR boats in this class are the hydro's but ProBoat is coming out with a .15 Cat that looks like another big disappointment from them. The only other boat that it could run against would be the Mean Machine .18 from Aeromarine, a slug in stock form.

Clubs have the option to run this class. The Wichita club has already held a race for them and had a good turn-out for their first time trying this.

Let anybody race one that has one, new boater or old-timer. The old-timers will want to squeeze more speed out of it and end up by building a lower cost Sport 20 boat out of it.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Chris, the Vegas boats come in 5 or 6 different colors so customizing one would be no problem. Could you just imagine seeing 6 identical boats on the water at once? That would be a mess! Decals come with the Vegas's so you have the option of putting them on or not.

They boats are aorund 6 MPH faster out of the box than the Miss Bud/LLumar/Elam's.

Changing turn fins, running whatever prop and percentage of nitro would be optional. The rear wing is heavy so no one says that it has to be used as there could be some boats that have lost theirs as a "casualty of war".

The rules could state that only the pull-starter must be used as what the ABS class rules stated but I see no advantage over using an electric starter as long as the pull-starter has not been removed.

Most of the current RTR boats in this class are the hydro's but ProBoat is coming out with a .15 Cat that looks like another big disappointment from them. The only other boat that it could run against would be the Mean Machine .18 from Aeromarine, a slug in stock form.

Clubs have the option to run this class. The Wichita club has already held a race for them and had a good turn-out for their first time trying this.

Let anybody race one that has one, new boater or old-timer. The old-timers will want to squeeze more speed out of it and end up by building a lower cost Sport 20 boat out of it.

Ron I agree with almost all except the rear wings, they need to stay. Removing the wings is an advantage over the people who have them & you'll turn it into another sport 20 type of class. If someone loses the wings during a race (casualty of war) then they have until next race to fix or replace them & they are not expensive. I'd also allow the belt starting since the stock flywheel is grooved for a belt but the pull start unit must remain.

 

[Ron Olson]

Since we have no formal class for them, a lot of things right now would be the CD's/ host clubs option. The rear wing-no rear wing will come up again. Mike says that the wing weighs 6oz. and that much can be a lot for an .18 just for speed and aerodynamics. The Sport 20 and 40 classes do not require rear wings and there could be the possibility of someone else coming out with a RTR hydro that doesn't have a rear wing.

I'd be all for anything that would help as far as saftey goes. The steering linkage on the Proboat's is a weak spot. Upgrading this would be something that can be cheaply fixed.

Twisted Liquid Racing has a lot of aftermarket parts for the Vegas and is working on things for the ProBoat's also. One item that they have is a lower profile radio box that is not only lower but uses a more conventional way of sealing the box with tape. It would place that in the not box-stock area but gives no real advantage in racing. There will be a lot of grey areas so the rules would have to specify exactly that the boats have to be as they came.

We have a big interesting thread over on the "other" site, about 30 pages worth on the Vegas alone. Some have opened up the "turbine exhaust tube" area to help the hot air to escape as heat has been a real issue with these boats, especially with blowing out exhaust couplers.

 

[Rules]

Hello,

For what it's worth, I did have this tidbit in the March 2005 Roostertail on the "Technically Speaking" page. For whatever reason, the complete set of rules did not make it into the Roostertail. The whole idea of this class was to prevent it from becoming another modified, do what you want, Nitro racing class. I wanted it for new modelers that bought a boat-in-a-box to be able to have their own class. A strictly run the boat as it came, no adding pipes or spending more money for performance engines. I realized that several fiberglass boats were begining to appear, and new racers could show up at local events, but be turned away due to the hull material.

This change was tossed out as a 1 year trial, for 2006, no vote, just as a suggestion. Clubs can add this class by stating the class with rules deviations to the original "ABS" class on their flyers, but apparently this "Production RTR" was overlooked. If someone is interested in picking up this class rules and putting something together, I may be able to find my revised rules they can start with.

{Change to ABS Class Since there has been no activity in this class as far as I can tell, I am offering changes that might stimulate interest. I will rename this class to “Production RTR” which will still require boats that come already built and ready to run. You will now be able to run wood or fiberglass boats, in addition to ABS hulls that are offered by hobby shops. I left the engine displacement at the maximum of .156 cu. in., but you can change this if you mention the change on your race flyers. We’ll try this new wording for a year to see if any club is interested. I had Noel print the full rules in this Roostertail.}

John Equi

 

[Chris Wood]

don,

the only thing that i would question is the wing situtation.. correct me if i am wrong but doesn't aqua craft make a boat with out a wing?? i seen one run this past weekend.. unless it was a boat and they took the wing off.. not sure.

other than that rtr is just that rtr.. it would be good for alot of people.. specially since you can get a hobbyshops support.

I can just see it know.. rtr us-1 champion lol.. that would be cool and the kid's that won would be on cloud 10.

chris

 

[piper_chuck]

...If someone is interested in picking up this class rules and putting something together, I may be able to find my revised rules they can start with...

John, if you can find them, can you email to me? [email protected]

 

[piper_chuck]

don,

the only thing that i would question is the wing situtation.. correct me if i am wrong but doesn't aqua craft make a boat with out a wing?? i seen one run this past weekend.. unless it was a boat and they took the wing off.. not sure.

The wing on the Vegas is removable. All that's holding it on is 4 little screws. I've heard a few people say they removed the wing and the metal supports that are imbedded in the deck and then repainted it. I'm wondering if the rules should allow removal of decorative parts, such as the wing, to allow some individualism.

 

[piper_chuck]

I just thought of something else that needs discussing. How is RTR defined? I think the target boats most of us are thinking of are the ones coming from a few big companies at a low price. In many cases, the entire package is less than $300. What happens if a smaller company starts special building a "hot" RTR with a $600 price tag? Should the rules require a minimum production number, similar to sport 20 tunnel engine production requirements? How about a price cap? What happens if a company in China starts selling directly, perhaps through eBay?

Also, do we need an online source of specs, and photos, for each boat that the CD can use to confirm it's still stock? And along these lines, what do we tell a person who bought a boat, modded it, and then discovered there was a club nearby? I don't think it's going to attract new members if we tell him, "sorry, you modded it, you can't play with us". Maybe they can race, but not for points?

Are these issues, or am I making this too complicated?

 

[Kelly Miller]

In a race schedule of all classes I think the RTR should stay as a stock out of the box with no mods to engine or pipe. allow changes to prop rudder and turn fin. and yes I think the fin should be allowed to be removed (Jerry won in wichita with his on, and if it was a real advantage he could have removed it very easy without any cost). we allowed .15 and .18 to run together, a .15 boat won third palce.

In a RTR ONLY race, my vision, was to have a stock, modified and unlimited.

The stock classes being driven by what is being built

.15

.18

.32

gas

electric

hydro

mono

right now the Vegas seems to be talked about the most but in my vision of RTR only race event we would include as many as possible.

now that is putting it very simple. It was my understanding that RTR was not "catching on" that much and in sight of that, we were told that we could modify the boat requirements as we saw fit. my desire was to see guys race and what we did in wichita last summer "fit" for us and I know for a fact that a lot of guys that had never been a part of racing before had a great time.

Now I definately don't want to rewrite the IMPBA rule book but I just see an opportunity to promote what I feel is a "growth" opportunity.

It is better to try and fail rather than not try at all.

Kelly Miller

 

[piper_chuck]

I have not post in here, but have set back a read the post. I truefully think there is to many rules going into a boat class the is way to simple for all this. How can you make a rule on a tail fin when it has screws to remove..to me this means optional..and takes no skill to remove. I have learned there are people in this hobby who just dont want certian things to happen. Someone mentions we should restrict the makers...chinesse maker selling on ebay...come on...now that makes since...lets make sure we drive the same boats every year and never allow new companies to give us products.

Nobody said don't allow Chinese eBay vendors, new products, or otherwise restricting the makers. I asked the questions so we could have a discussion about how to determine what is a stock RTR versus a custom boat. If we implement a stock class, how do we keep track of what is stock versus modified? What do you do to help ensure that the person who spends $300 on a boat doesn't have to compete with someone who throws a $500 car engine in his boat? You may think (hope) everyone wants to rush out and spend $250 on extra parts after dropping $300 on their new boat, but that's not necessarily true. I've heard from plenty of people that they just want to run the boat as it came in the box.

I am sorry if I sound a bit upset, but I have been RTR from the start...So many people talk when they wouldnt race a RTR if you gave it to them. My drive comes from the fact I was one of those guys rejected at the pond by the big boys because I didnt have the boats they had.

Has anyone in this thread been talking like that? Time to move on. We're discussing what to do in the future, not whining about what's in the past.

I am into having fun and good old racing...not standing around and talking crap on each other.

Now you're being hypocritical, you just talked "crap" on the "big boys" who allegedly wouldn't let you race. You've also done plenty of "talking crap" about other people, but in the interest of keeping this thread on topic, we'll spare everyone the details.

Some of you wont say it, but I will... The hobby is dying...point blank. instead of making this new class so rule covered..and I call it new because the first set of rules made it impossible to have real fun or even race in most cases. and people scream THERE IS NO ONE WANTING TO RACE RTR WE PUT THE RULES INTO PLACE. Ya ones that dont work.

That the rules need fixing has been established already. Let's move past that.

But this hobby is dying because the new guy has no home really in the impba...when its 73 percent of the industry.

Some people have said I support this RTR class because I sell parts for them. Well let me inform you. I support it because its my passion...the RTR and little cheap boats you can make go fast with little money. Some off the people in this forum know me in real life...I breath RTR. When you see a new person buy a TC31 and nevers get to run it, because the tiger drive blows up..it strikes me to make it better...same as most in this hobby.

If it's not your goal to sell your parts why do so many of your posts promote your parts and your business? There are plenty of other people in the hobby who sell parts, but rarely mention them when they're posting. Please don't turn this thread into yet another ad for your parts, we're talking about finding ways to support RTR boats within the existing organization and clubs.

The more I listen the more I think there needs to be a new group, just for RTR. Rule for RTR are simple...Kelly said it...STOCK...MODIFIED...UNLIMITED..covers everything and does not force us to race with the people who think we are not racers...

Maybe someday you'll lose the huge chip on your shoulder... Yet another boating organization will not improve R/C boat racing, it will further splinter it. Let's get something in place to support RTR boats within the existing organization and then if a club wants to focus more on RTR, great. Something to remember is a local club can implement nearly any class they want. However, having an IMPBA standard for an RTR class provides a starting point for clubs, if they choose. It also helps ensure that if a person from KS wants to drive up to a race in IL their RTR boat will be permitted and that they won't be competing against people who have spent huge amounts of $ upgrading their "RTR" boats.

Just allows the new guy a place to race no matter his pocket book size.

Yes, so he can buy lots of your parts! :lol:

My last point is STOP talking about RTR's as the boats that hold position as a class the IMPBA honors right now...like sport 20...RTR stands alone...start new.

In case you hadn't noticed, this discussion is about starting new.

In a race schedule of all classes I think the RTR should stay as a stock out of the box with no mods to engine or pipe. allow changes to prop rudder and turn fin. and yes I think the fin should be allowed to be removed (Jerry won in wichita with his on, and if it was a real advantage he could have removed it very easy without any cost). we allowed .15 and .18 to run together, a .15 boat won third palce.

Good point about Jerry winning with the wing on his boat while others had theirs off.

In a RTR ONLY race, my vision, was to have a stock, modified and unlimited.

Would this be a local thing, or organization wide? What happens when the experienced RTR racers have all upgraded their boats to modified or unlimited and a new person arrives? Who does he race against?

The stock classes being driven by what is being built

.15

.18

.32

gas

electric

hydro

mono

right now the Vegas seems to be talked about the most but in my vision of RTR only race event we would include as many as possible.

now that is putting it very simple. It was my understanding that RTR was not "catching on" that much and in sight of that, we were told that we could modify the boat requirements as we saw fit. my desire was to see guys race and what we did in wichita last summer "fit" for us and I know for a fact that a lot of guys that had never been a part of racing before had a great time.

Cool, that's what it's all about.

Now I definately don't want to rewrite the IMPBA rule book but I just see an opportunity to promote what I feel is a "growth" opportunity.

Actually, rewriting the RTR section of the rules is where I'm headed. It's clear they don't cover enough boats to be useful, so we need to get them changed. The purpose of this thread, and others, is to talk through some of the issues to determine how those new rules should look.

 

[Kelly Miller]

Yes chuck RTR ONLY is a local suggestion because the race concept is scheduling only RTR boats specifically at this point.

Vegas

Pro Boat Buds

TC 31 ?

Shockwave 55?

proboat 1\8 Gas bud? (I think would be cool)

has to be some guys with electric stuff they want to race. we (I) have not seen a lot of electric stuff but it has to be out there.

Chuck you bring up some very good points. Know what the limits are (rules) is very important and as this evolves I think we will best know how to stipulate specifics about rules. I completely understand about your concerns about the possibility of a guy taking a "Stock" boat and adding 250.00 worth of bolt ons and making it a over the top "stock" boat that can only be competed with if it is upgraded. I think allowing a turn fin change would be accetable. sanding a bottom OK, adding material to change running suface geometry, No that should fall under modified and unlimited. metal props ok. A lot of the post on the other message board seem to be modified right out of the gate.

I think not allowing engine and pipe changes and not allowing any material to be added to running surface is enough to specify "Stock" class. yea or nay

As a official IMPBA class the Vegas has been the number one boat that the current rules have been applied to and it has a engine that is too big under the current rules (.165 limit). or am I missing something. how about under .20. yea or nay

perhaps my outline is too vague but it is a starting point and from this point foward I would like to develop a date to hold the RTR only race and start to promote this actual event (or any others).

Lets start to get a head count of individual interest.

surely every veteran racer surely knows at least one person with interest.

Mayby we sould call it the "Heartland Vegas Invitational Pro-Am" Veteran racers teaming with someone new.

I kinda like that.

Ok Phil who are you bringing?

by the way Phil, that photo you took of Sam and I at the wichita Race is now my new desktop photo. Thanks for the great photo.

Kelly Miller

Sam Miller Racing

 

[Ron Olson]

Seeing how the racing season is just about over for most of us, this would a good of a time as any for any districts that would like to have a RTR class get some rules set up so there is consistancy so that the boats in question would be legal at all events. Doing this would show what the people want and help the sanctioning bodies establish the ground rules.

It would have been a Helluva lot easier if the mass-producers would have built boats that follow already established rules.

 

[Kelly Miller]

Good point Ron. at this point all the manufacturers are building such a variety of engine sizes it would almost have to be stock vegas .18, stock proboat bud .15, stock shockwave which in a full IMPBA race schedule might get a bit full (too many classes).

this is why I have come up with the RTR only concept. The general rules IMPBA have for running a safe race and general proceedure is great. The real core of my suggestion is like having another core of racing....perhaps call it Sportsman class racing....VS........ Pro Class racing. just a thought and like you said with race season comming to an end this is a good time to throw these things out there.

perhaps classes for RTR only is dictated by specific manufaturers boats. the RC car manufaturers got together and recognized the racing rules and gave the consumers multiple choices within a class. This has not happened yet in the boats. perhaps from a RTR only format one or two rtrs will shine through and achieve class status as RTR in a IMPBA full schedule Pro Class race.

for now my idea is to create a race for RTR only and see what happens.

Kelly Miller

 

[Ron Olson]

ROAR years ago came up with a Spec class for on-road cars. The size of the cars, along with what wind motor and a choice of only a few sets of tire compounds were allowed. This let more than one or 2 manufacturers into the game.

A while ago, we had people wanting a class for the ProBoat Miss Bud's (no Elam's at that time). A class like that would be only catering to one company and no others. In Florida a long time ago they tried a NASBOAT type of class where you painted you boat up like a NASCAR racer but they again only used one hull, a Warehouse Hobbies boat. This again was favoring only one company.

An all RTR event would be great! This way you could have stock and mod classes and not have to worry about using up the whole day by trying to squeeze in the other classes.

Up in Chicago they have/had the Ultimate 21 Shoot-out and the turn-outs were fantastic! What happened in Wichita was a great start to get the RTR classes going.

 

[anthony_marquart]

Man,... lots of good points here. It could be best to keep the rules as few as possibe.

We could start with the rule that all boats have to purchased RTR initially to qualify.

stock-- change prop, turn fin or wings.

Modified -- change whatever as long as you don't go over the engine size of the original RTR kit

Unlimited-- just that,.. toss is whatever you can cram in... I don't think this would get very big though... might as well move up a class.

That would make it simple...

All this makes me want one now...

 

[Frosty]

Being one of the new guys I thought I would add my 2 cents.

Seems like we have several veterans talking, which is great. This means they care about forming a class for new people. I think its the best way to get more people in the sport. As you all know when some people start out on the ground floor they want to move up quickly. This means there will be more competition in the more established classes down the road when newbie classes are introduced. I would love to race but I know with my skill level, I could not jump into any class out there and be competitive.

I probably don't have a lot of solutions but I have read this and other threads and I have a few observations. Please don't tear me to shreads. I'm just trying to speak my thoughts. Maybe I should have kept my thought to myself

Adding a RTR class would be great, but very tricky. I agree that there are too many different type of RTR boats that if you just lumped them all together some boats would not be competitive. This will frustrate those with non-competitive boats. From what I understand the Miss Vegas is the fastest RTR boat box stock. If the class was left just "stock RTR" then you would be catering to Aquaraft manufacturers because everyone would know, if you want to be the fastest you have to buy a Miss Vegas. To battle this I agree need to be done at a manufacturer level. They have to come up with boats that have similar hardware or there are going to be several classes of RTR's. Will this be done any time soon, more than likely no.

I guess clubs will need to advertise a RTR class and when they get all the entries in they will have to decide on what the RTR break down will be. I used to work at a hobby shop and that is what we had to do in some classes because there was a big difference in what people brought to the race. Its a big pain in the butt though. We did not like doing it, but it made people happy because they would actually have a chance to win in a circumstance that otherwise they would have no chance. This would keep them coming back and advancing in the sport

I think the boats should have stock motor and pipe for a stock class. Is internal tweeking of the motor and pipe going to be allowed? I have read that several people are porting intake,exhaust, and the pipe. Will this be a different class? What about those guys that have added a cooling tubes on their exhaust. That is not stock either. Will that be allowed? If people want to modify it a little so be it, but have a different classification for them. I think Kelly Miller and the guys in Wichita have a good grasp on this concept. Anthony had a great suggestion also.

I think that nitro should have guidlines also. I do not think you should tell them what to run but I do think there should be limits. I think it should be something like you cannot run anything higher than 40% nitro. This will allow the racer to use a nitro that they prefer without narrowing it down to one manufacturer. I personally like Trinity and a guy I run with likes O'Donnell. We should both be able to run what we like as long as it doesn't exceed the nitro content allowed. I know this also poses the question about the cheaters, which there are some wherever you go. Is there a way to test nitro content? Because if there isn't you are going to have someone show up with 65% in a 40% bottle unless the club buys the nitro and I don't think they want to take on that expense.

I would like to see some of the veterans out racing or helping the new guys if this class forms. It will let the new guys know they belong and are not some outsider. I know everyone has been there looking down on the new guy or being looked down upon because you are new. If the veterans would run with the newbies and give them some tech tips they would have more ownership in the sport and want to expand themselves in the sport. The veterans will just have to remember that new people have a lot of questions and more than likely you are going to be hit when you are running against a newbie. :blink:

I think the rules should be simple and streamline. I also think you should throw a set of rules out there and tell everone this is a work in progress. Cover as much ground as you think you need to. As the weeks and months go buy and there is a problem rule or a gap that need fixed, fix it. No one says you have to get it right the first time and new people will be open to changes if you tell them the rules are a work in progress and changes to the rules may be made to help the sport.

I just like to say thanks to all you that are trying to help the new guy. I think it will benifit you in the long run.

 

[330T]

a supported RTR class would be the single biggest thing this sport could do to promote new boaters. Get these people out to the pond on race day and after a few races they will be hooked for life.

I'm SHOCKED that Pro Boats and/ or AquaCraft has not worked with the clubs to get this done.

I would believe the key is to keep the rules as simple and as stock as possible. Allow Tuning (pipe length, props, fuel), Comedic (paint, graphics) but do not allow added or replacement parts, or mods to the glass.

 

[anthony_marquart]

The more I think about this I think you really need to have a "stock" and a "modified" class. Here's why,... I love to tinker with my boats. It's almost as fun as running them.

The modified class will keep people interested for longer term. I think you should be able to put in a different motor as long as you don't go over the original engine size. I'm actually thinking of running a .12 in one. Not that I think it will be much faster than the .18 but because it's what I have. Of course someone will put a TZ.18 in there and the thing will be fast but he'll find other changes too,... cooling, fuel consumption etc,... The stock class racer is bound to want to move up to the modifed class in a year at least. You could do this for a few hundred instead of the huge cost up moving up to a sport 40 or something.

I need to design a water cooled head for my motor...

 

[piper_chuck]

Being one of the new guys I thought I would add my 2 cents.

Seems like we have several veterans talking, which is great. This means they care about forming a class for new people. I think its the best way to get more people in the sport. As you all know when some people start out on the ground floor they want to move up quickly. This means there will be more competition in the more established classes down the road when newbie classes are introduced. I would love to race but I know with my skill level, I could not jump into any class out there and be competitive.

I probably don't have a lot of solutions but I have read this and other threads and I have a few observations. Please don't tear me to shreads. I'm just trying to speak my thoughts. Maybe I should have kept my thought to myself

Not at all, thoughts are what I want in this thread, especially from people who are newer! It's the way we all learn about what each other wants.

Adding a RTR class would be great, but very tricky. I agree that there are too many different type of RTR boats that if you just lumped them all together some boats would not be competitive. This will frustrate those with non-competitive boats. From what I understand the Miss Vegas is the fastest RTR boat box stock. If the class was left just "stock RTR" then you would be catering to Aquaraft manufacturers because everyone would know, if you want to be the fastest you have to buy a Miss Vegas. To battle this I agree need to be done at a manufacturer level. They have to come up with boats that have similar hardware or there are going to be several classes of RTR's. Will this be done any time soon, more than likely no.

This is kind of describing a survival of the fittest scenario. While I wouldn't want to see us adopt a set of rules that intentionally favors a specific boat, if one happens to be best for racing, so be it. I see some of this happening even now. It's quite common for someone to go looking on the forums to see which one is fastest.

I guess clubs will need to advertise a RTR class and when they get all the entries in they will have to decide on what the RTR break down will be. I used to work at a hobby shop and that is what we had to do in some classes because there was a big difference in what people brought to the race. Its a big pain in the butt though. We did not like doing it, but it made people happy because they would actually have a chance to win in a circumstance that otherwise they would have no chance. This would keep them coming back and advancing in the sport

I think the boats should have stock motor and pipe for a stock class. Is internal tweeking of the motor and pipe going to be allowed? I have read that several people are porting intake,exhaust, and the pipe. Will this be a different class? What about those guys that have added a cooling tubes on their exhaust. That is not stock either. Will that be allowed? If people want to modify it a little so be it, but have a different classification for them. I think Kelly Miller and the guys in Wichita have a good grasp on this concept. Anthony had a great suggestion also.

I think that nitro should have guidlines also. I do not think you should tell them what to run but I do think there should be limits. I think it should be something like you cannot run anything higher than 40% nitro. This will allow the racer to use a nitro that they prefer without narrowing it down to one manufacturer. I personally like Trinity and a guy I run with likes O'Donnell. We should both be able to run what we like as long as it doesn't exceed the nitro content allowed. I know this also poses the question about the cheaters, which there are some wherever you go. Is there a way to test nitro content? Because if there isn't you are going to have someone show up with 65% in a 40% bottle unless the club buys the nitro and I don't think they want to take on that expense.

If there is a nitro limit, one of the only ways to prevent cheating is for the club to provide the fuel and for all fueling to be done in a place where it's impossible to "spike" the tank. The reason I mentioned using a specific brand was to allow people to practice with the same stuff that would be used on race day. However, if this kind of thing was written into the rules, fuel brand would not be included, that has to be a local decision.

I would like to see some of the veterans out racing or helping the new guys if this class forms. It will let the new guys know they belong and are not some outsider. I know everyone has been there looking down on the new guy or being looked down upon because you are new. If the veterans would run with the newbies and give them some tech tips they would have more ownership in the sport and want to expand themselves in the sport. The veterans will just have to remember that new people have a lot of questions and more than likely you are going to be hit when you are running against a newbie. :blink:

I do feel the need to step in here and defend the veterans here. Most that I know will bend over backwards to help new people learn the ropes and be competitive. Sure there are some that won't, but the overwhelming majority of the ones I know are great about helping others.

I think the rules should be simple and streamline. I also think you should throw a set of rules out there and tell everone this is a work in progress. Cover as much ground as you think you need to. As the weeks and months go buy and there is a problem rule or a gap that need fixed, fix it. No one says you have to get it right the first time and new people will be open to changes if you tell them the rules are a work in progress and changes to the rules may be made to help the sport.

I just like to say thanks to all you that are trying to help the new guy. I think it will benifit you in the long run.

I think it will benefit all of us, newcomers and veterans alike.

 

[Frosty]

In no way did I mean that the veterans don't help out the new guy. I think they do. If that's how my comment came across I did not mean it that way. Sorry

About the nitro. I was hoping there were testers out there that could quick check the nitro content. This way you would be able to run you own fuel. If the clubs do have to provide fuel I agree that they need to advertise what brand of fuel they are using so people can set there boat up. One Question: Would using a standard set of fuel stop some veterans from racing. i.e. Say Chuck is sponsored by Wildcat and the club has decided to allow only Trinity fuel in their boats. Would Chuck being bound by sponsorship not run because he can't run his sponsors fuel. I don't know how it works so I'm asking.

I also believe as Anthony said about a modified RTR class to help keep up the interest. As you know from the other thread most people have modified theirs already anyway. I don't think you are going to find many "stock" RTR out there anyway. If you had a Straight stock class I think I would buy another boat instead of putting my old one back to stock.