Pay N Pak

[Grimracer]

shoot.. I dont have a pic of the mod one..but if you look at this pic you can see the brace running across the radio box.. that is the new break poing

Grim

 

[R.J.West]

shoot.. I dont have a pic of the mod one..but if you look at this pic you can see the brace running across the radio box.. that is the new break poing

Grim

Looks like the tunnel break is moved back to frame 5. Mine is built stock, what about moving the driveline an 1/8" to port from the centerline? In other words draw a line from the engine collet to 1/8" left of the centerline for your strut to compenstate for engine torque?

 

[Hydro Junkie]

After comparing the picture Grim posted and the one RJ posted, I have determined the break to be all the way back at frame 6, one further aft than what I recommended back in my "Option 3" post. In stock form, the break is all the way up at frame 3, so the aerodynamics will be much different than the almost barge-like front of the bottom in a stock build. Nice to know I was advising in the right direction

If you look closely at the bottom of my Newton designed boat, I think you will find the glue blocks are in almost the exact same location as the bottom break in the boat Grim showed us

Grim, Thank you for clarifying this for us. Never hurts to have more experience added to the mix

 

[griz2575]

Wow their is alot to building boats. I cant wait to get going, but I think it is going to take longer than I though.

 

[Grimracer]

shoot.. I dont have a pic of the mod one..but if you look at this pic you can see the brace running across the radio box.. that is the new break poing

Grim

Looks like the tunnel break is moved back to frame 5. Mine is built stock, what about moving the driveline an 1/8" to port from the centerline? In other words draw a line from the engine collet to 1/8" left of the centerline for your strut to compenstate for engine torque?

RJ,

The plans for the boat, although old, have the prop offset/angled a predetermined deg. (I can not remember what it is). USE IT! Having said this, I have both my 1/8 scale boats set 1.5deg to port. For me this angle starts from the beginning of the stuffing tube to the start of the strut. It takes a tic more weight over the port sponson but the boat just gets DRIVEN through the corner.

What you are seeing in the pic is the motor moved to port to aid in pipe placement. I can not remember if that boat was set with shaft angle offset. Squeak still runs the boat and its no back marker.

BTY.. all the Dumas PPs that I have built were built using the stock wood..

Grim

 

[R.J.West]

After comparing the picture Grim posted and the one RJ posted, I have determined the break to be all the way back at frame 6, one further aft than what I recommended back in my "Option 3" post. In stock form, the break is all the way up at frame 3, so the aerodynamics will be much different than the almost barge-like front of the bottom in a stock build. Nice to know I was advising in the right direction

If you look closely at the bottom of my Newton designed boat, I think you will find the glue blocks are in almost the exact same location as the bottom break in the boat Grim showed us

Grim, Thank you for clarifying this for us. Never hurts to have more experience added to the mix

I built mine stock & I double checked, and the break on my Pak is right at the sponson transoms which is frame 4. On my U-76 sport 40 which is the same hull the break is much further aft, several inches past the air dams.

 

[Bill Gibson]

Wow their is alot to building boats. I cant wait to get going, but I think it is going to take longer than I though.

Building a stock kit isnt too bad, but changing a 30+ year old design to a modern style can be a challenge...not trying to discourge you Griz, but for a first build, you got yourself a little bit of a handful! The modern engines are so powerful that serious changes had to be made to the hulls just to keep em on the water ! I personally love Sport 20 hydros and if you could look at the bottom design of say, a 20 Whiplash, and then look at your Paynpak bottom and sponsons in thier stock configuration, youd see a HUGE difference....ive got a 20 Pak kit too....maybe ill start hackin on it too, just for the fun of it...the 20 Pak that i built is stock.....As long as yer havin fun with it , keep goin!

 

[griz2575]

Wow their is alot to building boats. I cant wait to get going, but I think it is going to take longer than I though.

Building a stock kit isnt too bad, but changing a 30+ year old design to a modern style can be a challenge...not trying to discourge you Griz, but for a first build, you got yourself a little bit of a handful! The modern engines are so powerful that serious changes had to be made to the hulls just to keep em on the water ! I personally love Sport 20 hydros and if you could look at the bottom design of say, a 20 Whiplash, and then look at your Paynpak bottom and sponsons in thier stock configuration, youd see a HUGE difference....ive got a 20 Pak kit too....maybe ill start hackin on it too, just for the fun of it...the 20 Pak that i built is stock.....As long as yer havin fun with it , keep goin!

Thats what I am doing. I want to learn something and have fun. Thats what this is all about for me. With all the info I have received from you guys it is alot less complicated.

 

[R.J.West]

Thats pretty much been my approach, I build 'em stock and slap in the best engine I can afford and take it from there.

You should have seen my first attempt at a Dumas Miller American 1/8th scale. Hahah I wish I took pics. It was a gwad awfully heavy/bondo filled boat anchor. I didnt use a building jig, dont recall sanding the frames before I decked it. (hey I was 16 at the time) You could have used the thing as a battering ram in a drug bust and it probably wouldnt broke it...About 10% wood and the rest was epoxy and pink bondo. You should have seen how long it took my mom to try to break it up to get it to fit in the trashcan after I gave up on it....

 

[griz2575]

Awesome. I cant say this one wont be like that.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Awesome. I cant say this one wont be like that.

It won't be like that for two simple reasons:

1) You have been given lots of info on how to make the boat work and what not to do

2) You have all of us to ask questions along the way if you have a problem or you're not sure about something

Nuff said about building heavy boat anchors

 

[glenng]

Wow their is alot to building boats. I cant wait to get going, but I think it is going to take longer than I though.

Building a stock kit isnt too bad, but changing a 30+ year old design to a modern style can be a challenge...not trying to discourge you Griz, but for a first build, you got yourself a little bit of a handful! The modern engines are so powerful that serious changes had to be made to the hulls just to keep em on the water ! I personally love Sport 20 hydros and if you could look at the bottom design of say, a 20 Whiplash, and then look at your Paynpak bottom and sponsons in thier stock configuration, youd see a HUGE difference....ive got a 20 Pak kit too....maybe ill start hackin on it too, just for the fun of it...the 20 Pak that i built is stock.....As long as yer havin fun with it , keep goin!

Thats what I am doing. I want to learn something and have fun. Thats what this is all about for me. With all the info I have received from you guys it is alot less complicated.

Griz, the more wood boats you build the more you learn. The 60 size PAK is an old kit. I framed it to stock dimentions, lightened the frame work - stopped and compared the bottom design to a new Henry Velasco glass hull-HUGE difference. It was ovbious that the boat would ride nose up/ tail down. I started at frame one(ram wing ) and cut 3/8"-5/8" front to back off the sponson bottoms keeping them flat with a 95 degree angle inside to outside on the sponson bottoms. I was kinda suprised the boat handeled rough water well and never blew over. Not a racer with the well worn motors i've used the last couple years-but a lot of fun. The 20 size whip kits are not that expensive and proven racers.

Good Luck,

Glenn

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Wow their is alot to building boats. I cant wait to get going, but I think it is going to take longer than I though.

Building a stock kit isnt too bad, but changing a 30+ year old design to a modern style can be a challenge...not trying to discourge you Griz, but for a first build, you got yourself a little bit of a handful! The modern engines are so powerful that serious changes had to be made to the hulls just to keep em on the water ! I personally love Sport 20 hydros and if you could look at the bottom design of say, a 20 Whiplash, and then look at your Paynpak bottom and sponsons in thier stock configuration, youd see a HUGE difference....ive got a 20 Pak kit too....maybe ill start hackin on it too, just for the fun of it...the 20 Pak that i built is stock.....As long as yer havin fun with it , keep goin!

Thats what I am doing. I want to learn something and have fun. Thats what this is all about for me. With all the info I have received from you guys it is alot less complicated.

Griz, the more wood boats you build the more you learn. The 60 size PAK is an old kit. I framed it to stock dimentions, lightened the frame work - stopped and compared the bottom design to a new Henry Velasco glass hull-HUGE difference. It was ovbious that the boat would ride nose up/ tail down. I started at frame one(ram wing ) and cut 3/8"-5/8" front to back off the sponson bottoms keeping them flat with a 95 degree angle inside to outside on the sponson bottoms. I was kinda suprised the boat handeled rough water well and never blew over. Not a racer with the well worn motors i've used the last couple years-but a lot of fun. The 20 size whip kits are not that expensive and proven racers.

Good Luck,

Glenn

In MY case, I would probably do that with the right sponson having the inside edge higher than the outside, but on the left, I would have the outside higher than the inside. Either that or I'd have the right one totally flat. or at 90 degrees to the sponson inside and have the left sponson outside edge 3 degrees higher than the inside. The only problem with going totally flat is that it makes the sponson drag more than having an anhedral/dihedral set up

 

[Grimracer]

My good old PP

Grim

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Looks good Grim. Only problem I have with it is there isn't a roostertail behind it and the lettering APPEARS to be yellow and brown, like in the later 1978 Madison paint scheme

 

[glenng]

Wow their is alot to building boats. I cant wait to get going, but I think it is going to take longer than I though.

Building a stock kit isnt too bad, but changing a 30+ year old design to a modern style can be a challenge...not trying to discourge you Griz, but for a first build, you got yourself a little bit of a handful! The modern engines are so powerful that serious changes had to be made to the hulls just to keep em on the water ! I personally love Sport 20 hydros and if you could look at the bottom design of say, a 20 Whiplash, and then look at your Paynpak bottom and sponsons in thier stock configuration, youd see a HUGE difference....ive got a 20 Pak kit too....maybe ill start hackin on it too, just for the fun of it...the 20 Pak that i built is stock.....As long as yer havin fun with it , keep goin!

Thats what I am doing. I want to learn something and have fun. Thats what this is all about for me. With all the info I have received from you guys it is alot less complicated.

Griz, the more wood boats you build the more you learn. The 60 size PAK is an old kit. I framed it to stock dimentions, lightened the frame work - stopped and compared the bottom design to a new Henry Velasco glass hull-HUGE difference. It was ovbious that the boat would ride nose up/ tail down. I started at frame one(ram wing ) and cut 3/8"-5/8" front to back off the sponson bottoms keeping them flat with a 95 degree angle inside to outside on the sponson bottoms. I was kinda suprised the boat handeled rough water well and never blew over. Not a racer with the well worn motors i've used the last couple years-but a lot of fun. The 20 size whip kits are not that expensive and proven racers.

Good Luck,

Glenn

In MY case, I would probably do that with the right sponson having the inside edge higher than the outside, but on the left, I would have the outside higher than the inside. Either that or I'd have the right one totally flat. or at 90 degrees to the sponson inside and have the left sponson outside edge 3 degrees higher than the inside. The only problem with going totally flat is that it makes the sponson drag more than having an anhedral/dihedral set up

Thanks HJ, I'm still learning too. Actually neither sponson spent much time in the water

. Gonna make a few changes for next year-a healthy Steve Wood CMB motor/strut about .090" deeper and will probably have to add some weight to the nose. I'll let you know how it goes my friend!

Glenn

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Thanks for what Glenn? All I said was that I would probably tweek the sponson runners if I was to build one.

Is your boat tail heavy? If there is too much weight in the back end, it could cause the sponsons to fly rather than skim the surface. IF built stock, with the short forward bottom section, it could cause the same thing at higher speeds, as per Grim's earlier post

 

[R.J.West]

My good old PP

Grim

Hi Grim,

Nice work on the cockpit! Now is this the 20 or 40 size? If 20 what scale size driver is that one, all I have is a couple 1/8 & 1/12 williams brothers pilot busts. I know theres some 1/10 scale drivers that the 1/10 scale electric guys use...

 

[Hydro Junkie]

I'd like to find some of those 1/10th scale drivers myself, considering my Pak and a soon to be started Blue Blaster are both 1/9.5 scale. I don't think it would look good to have a driver that's 1/3 as tall as the boat is long, unless the boat is a modelled from one of the limited classes.

 

[R.J.West]

I'd like to find some of those 1/10th scale drivers myself, considering my Pak and a soon to be started Blue Blaster are both 1/9.5 scale. I don't think it would look good to have a driver that's 1/3 as tall as the boat is long, unless the boat is a modelled from one of the limited classes.

This is a cool site, www.classicthunder.org

Lots of really cool 1/10 scale electric hydros...Heres where I find my drivers at http://www.classicthunder.org/ForSale/Hansen.htm