water for RS 45 and 91/101

[Dan_Cousin]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

 

[Jerry T]

I always put the inlet on the bottom to make sure all the air is bolwn out by the water. I restrict the water flow if nessesary the heat the motor more. If you have air trapped in the head, that's going to be the hot spot.

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

 

[Buckshot]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

The big Evo motor's (Evo Red, 2K, and 2K2) have / had the same cooling circuit as the current Rs motors. I don't know about the smaller Evolution motors. I've always ran the flow of bottom to top due to what Jerry stated and to be able to plug the factory outlet and dill a small hole in the top of the jacket to exit the water. I have not had an issue yet with a piston seizing in the liner and I have punished quite a few Evo motors. I would not be able to comment on the AAC motors as I would not have one. That is a bad idea (AAC) in my opinion for the type of destruction we put on these motors here in the Americas.

Did you experience a problem with your motors?



-Buck-

 

[mark voorhies]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

Allen,

This is interesting rumor about AAC liner because have been testing new 91RS in a mono

and have been switching cooling line from top to bottom and now have seen loss of chrome on

TDC of sleeve. Guess that might not have been a good idea? I don't think AAC has been very well

proven yet?

 

[Russell Bear]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

Allen,

This is interesting rumor about AAC liner because have been testing new 91RS in a mono

and have been switching cooling line from top to bottom and now have seen loss of chrome on

TDC of sleeve. Guess that might not have been a good idea? I don't think AAC has been very well

proven yet?

Mark, switched from what to what when you started seeing the sleeve problem.

 

[Jim Allen]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

The big Evo motor's (Evo Red, 2K, and 2K2) have / had the same cooling circuit as the current Rs motors. I don't know about the smaller Evolution motors. I've always ran the flow of bottom to top due to what Jerry stated and to be able to plug the factory outlet and dill a small hole in the top of the jacket to exit the water. I have not had an issue yet with a piston seizing in the liner and I have punished quite a few Evo motors. I would not be able to comment on the AAC motors as I would not have one. That is a bad idea (AAC) in my opinion for the type of destruction we put on these motors here in the Americas.

Did you experience a problem with your motors?



-Buck-

Buck,

I am sure from extensive testing that the problem with chrome comming off any type of sleeve, either a brass alloy or an aluminum alloy, is the results of incorrect application of the chrome. I have sucessfully tested hard chrome plated 4032-T651 & Mahle 138 aluminum sleeves that use high silicon aluminum pistons (RS-444) with no failures. The hard chrome plating of aluminum is very sensitive to contamination & lengths of time for each chemical used. This difficult process is not suitable for the plating of large numbers of pieces!

Jim

 

[Jerry T]

I have a CMB 90 with the AAC sleeve and have been running the water in the bottom and out the top since year 2000. Replaced the piston & sleeve years ago but, not because of the chrome peeling. Playing with quiet pipes and burned the exhaust side of the piston, the sleeve still looks good.

 

[Buckshot]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

The big Evo motor's (Evo Red, 2K, and 2K2) have / had the same cooling circuit as the current Rs motors. I don't know about the smaller Evolution motors. I've always ran the flow of bottom to top due to what Jerry stated and to be able to plug the factory outlet and dill a small hole in the top of the jacket to exit the water. I have not had an issue yet with a piston seizing in the liner and I have punished quite a few Evo motors. I would not be able to comment on the AAC motors as I would not have one. That is a bad idea (AAC) in my opinion for the type of destruction we put on these motors here in the Americas.

Did you experience a problem with your motors?



-Buck-

Buck,

I am sure from extensive testing that the problem with chrome comming off any type of sleeve, either a brass alloy or an aluminum alloy, is the results of incorrect application of the chrome. I have sucessfully tested hard chrome plated 4032-T651 & Mahle 138 aluminum sleeves that use high silicon aluminum pistons (RS-444) with no failures. The hard chrome plating of aluminum is very sensitive to contamination & lengths of time for each chemical used. This difficult process is not suitable for the plating of large numbers of pieces!

Jim

Thanks for the clarification Jim.

All the AAC piston and liners that I have had experience with where from CMB and they where nothing but trouble.

The way I understand why an AAC set up is tried was to allow the aluminum sleeve to expand in a more linear way with the aluminum piston. I would see it very difficult for hard chrome to retain adhesion to a liner made of aluminum which is expanding and contracting more than brass. I’m by no means an expert on these theories by that is just the way I see it. I’m sure that the use of a harder aluminum would help with some of the chrome delaminating problems as well as better control of the chroming process with regards to contamination.

Jim,

Do you see any advantage in an AAC type set up if done correctly?

Regards,

-Buck-

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

Allen,

This is interesting rumor about AAC liner because have been testing new 91RS in a mono

and have been switching cooling line from top to bottom and now have seen loss of chrome on

TDC of sleeve. Guess that might not have been a good idea? I don't think AAC has been very well

proven yet?

h34r: I was surprised that The Euro club said AAC liner accept use less 40% nitro If you take more high 50% to up than 40% so can harm(loss of chrome ) because the liner become very hot also can may chip off. Thats reason also your risky!!. :huh: The north american club want to switch back to ABC Thats why!

 

[Jim Allen]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

The big Evo motor's (Evo Red, 2K, and 2K2) have / had the same cooling circuit as the current Rs motors. I don't know about the smaller Evolution motors. I've always ran the flow of bottom to top due to what Jerry stated and to be able to plug the factory outlet and dill a small hole in the top of the jacket to exit the water. I have not had an issue yet with a piston seizing in the liner and I have punished quite a few Evo motors. I would not be able to comment on the AAC motors as I would not have one. That is a bad idea (AAC) in my opinion for the type of destruction we put on these motors here in the Americas.

Did you experience a problem with your motors?



-Buck-

Buck,

I am sure from extensive testing that the problem with chrome comming off any type of sleeve, either a brass alloy or an aluminum alloy, is the results of incorrect application of the chrome. I have sucessfully tested hard chrome plated 4032-T651 & Mahle 138 aluminum sleeves that use high silicon aluminum pistons (RS-444) with no failures. The hard chrome plating of aluminum is very sensitive to contamination & lengths of time for each chemical used. This difficult process is not suitable for the plating of large numbers of pieces!

Jim

Thanks for the clarification Jim.

All the AAC piston and liners that I have had experience with where from CMB and they where nothing but trouble.

The way I understand why an AAC set up is tried was to allow the aluminum sleeve to expand in a more linear way with the aluminum piston. I would see it very difficult for hard chrome to retain adhesion to a liner made of aluminum which is expanding and contracting more than brass. I’m by no means an expert on these theories by that is just the way I see it. I’m sure that the use of a harder aluminum would help with some of the chrome delaminating problems as well as better control of the chroming process with regards to contamination.

Jim,

Do you see any advantage in an AAC type set up if done correctly?

Regards,

-Buck-

Buck,

I think there are several advantages: Any liner made of a silicon aluminum alloy is always lighter in weight & more rigid than a brass liner. Also, they work extremely well with high silicon aluminum pistons which have low expansion rates & high wear resistance. Alloy selection of the piston material & the liner material is critical to obtain the best results; a long life of liner to piston fit.

Jim

 

[Buckshot]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

The big Evo motor's (Evo Red, 2K, and 2K2) have / had the same cooling circuit as the current Rs motors. I don't know about the smaller Evolution motors. I've always ran the flow of bottom to top due to what Jerry stated and to be able to plug the factory outlet and dill a small hole in the top of the jacket to exit the water. I have not had an issue yet with a piston seizing in the liner and I have punished quite a few Evo motors. I would not be able to comment on the AAC motors as I would not have one. That is a bad idea (AAC) in my opinion for the type of destruction we put on these motors here in the Americas.

Did you experience a problem with your motors?



-Buck-

Buck,

I am sure from extensive testing that the problem with chrome comming off any type of sleeve, either a brass alloy or an aluminum alloy, is the results of incorrect application of the chrome. I have sucessfully tested hard chrome plated 4032-T651 & Mahle 138 aluminum sleeves that use high silicon aluminum pistons (RS-444) with no failures. The hard chrome plating of aluminum is very sensitive to contamination & lengths of time for each chemical used. This difficult process is not suitable for the plating of large numbers of pieces!

Jim

Thanks for the clarification Jim.

All the AAC piston and liners that I have had experience with where from CMB and they where nothing but trouble.

The way I understand why an AAC set up is tried was to allow the aluminum sleeve to expand in a more linear way with the aluminum piston. I would see it very difficult for hard chrome to retain adhesion to a liner made of aluminum which is expanding and contracting more than brass. I’m by no means an expert on these theories by that is just the way I see it. I’m sure that the use of a harder aluminum would help with some of the chrome delaminating problems as well as better control of the chroming process with regards to contamination.

Jim,

Do you see any advantage in an AAC type set up if done correctly?

Regards,

-Buck-

Buck,

I think there are several advantages: Any liner made of a silicon aluminum alloy is always lighter in weight & more rigid than a brass liner. Also, they work extremely well with high silicon aluminum pistons which have low expansion rates & high wear resistance. Alloy selection of the piston material & the liner material is critical to obtain the best results; a long life of liner to piston fit.

Jim

Jim,

Thank you. That is very fascinating information.

-Buck-

 

[mark voorhies]

I noticed that the RS 45 and 91/101 has the water fittings located similar to the old Picco with a lower circuit for the case and the upper section for the head button. The old Blue heads were siezing the piston because the sleeve was being cooled more in the middle then on the top which caused the sleeve to get into a hourglass shape. This was fixed when the water was brought in from the top and exit the bottom.

Would this be the same with the RS?

I think I found one clue!!

http://www.iansboats.co.uk/scan0002.jpg

<_< I just heard rumor about RS if use AAC Liner( Chromed Aluminum liner) must water in Top nipple and out Botton nipple )because it is very sensitive to easy chip off( flake piece) from piston. Another use ABC liner matter switch out or in That's fact!!!

Allen,

This is interesting rumor about AAC liner because have been testing new 91RS in a mono

and have been switching cooling line from top to bottom and now have seen loss of chrome on

TDC of sleeve. Guess that might not have been a good idea? I don't think AAC has been very well

proven yet?

Mark, switched from what to what when you started seeing the sleeve problem.

Ran about 8 tanks last year with top to bottom cooling, then went to bottom to top this

spring and switched back and forth since then.Looked at sleeve top recently and noticed

missing chrome/pitting on TDC of liner. Let me say, Jerry T. could be correct in the air

trapped causes hot spots, don't know?

I always put the inlet on the bottom to make sure all the air is bolwn out by the water. I restrict the water flow if nessesary the heat the motor more. If you have air trapped in the head, that's going to be the hot spot.