Thoughts on the Stock Class rules

[Danny King]

Engine claiming is a bad idea. Unless it’s for a large amount of money. Consider the time spent running in a brand new engine. How much is a whole Sunday or 2 whole sundays worth? These things take lots of run time to be good running engines.
It is the guys that put in the work that have great running boats. To let someone buy that because they think it’s modded is the easy way out.
Streamline tech inspections. It has worked so far. No system is perfect.
Inspections add integrity.

 

[andy fraser]

Hey Andy. Provided an engine was claimed mid race, I'm assuming it's up to the racer to have a backup engine to install before the next heat? Also, are the prices of claimed engines marked up as well? I believe at AMA motocross events, (depending on class) claimed bikes are MSRP and up to XX% of MSRP added on top as well. Refusal of a claim is grounds for DQ and a suspension.

My worry is that not everyone who comes to a sanctioned race will have a backup stock 260 engine, and if your engine is claimed, that puts you out of a race. Consider travel fees and or hotel ect. Might be a silly thing to worry about, but not everyone will have a backup engine ready to drop in and go. In my eyes, if someone wants to claim an engine, you had better be ready to hand them a brand new engine to install on the spot before the next heat.

Just my two pennies.

Claiming is winners motor at end of event.

 

[dr gary turner]

Back to basics:

DO YOU NEED A STOCK CLASS

There is no stock class in NITRO 20 40 60 F hydro or Twin and same with MONOS

There is one in Tunnels and the rules have worked

Doing away with STOCK IN GAS CLASSES would do away with a lot of issues

 

[ChrisHerzog]

Engine claiming is a bad idea. Unless it’s for a large amount of money. Consider the time spent running in a brand new engine. How much is a whole Sunday or 2 whole sundays worth? These things take lots of run time to be good running engines.
It is the guys that put in the work that have great running boats. To let someone buy that because they think it’s modded is the easy way out.
Streamline tech inspections. It has worked so far. No system is perfect.
Inspections add integrity.

I agree with everything you said above. Proper break in, set up and driving are key. Streamlining the inspection process is all that I’m after. It has to be fast, easy and fair. To DQ someone at a big race at the end of the day over something dumb that has absolutely no benefit is a little overboard in my opinion. It only creates hard feelings and does nothing for promoting the class. Again in my opinion there should only be a handful of certain things, maybe 5 or 6 for a tech to look at and check, then move on.

maybe….
Bearings/Seals
Bore/Stroke
Timing
Carb
And obvious port mods

Once the motor is out of the boat a Tech should be able to check these 5 or 6 things in under 10 minutes and hold the Tech to that.

Also only check the first place boat in each class requiring a “Stock” motor. If he/she passes tech it’s over. Only if the first place boat fails tech and is DQed do you move on to the second place boat and so on.

Finally, it needs to be the exact same procedure at every single race that tech is used. Like the CD endorsement have a Tech test to become a certified Tech. These guys can talk and discuss things that they are seeing and propose amendments to the rules along the way if necessary.

The bottom line is fast and easy, and don’t overthink every single part on an engine. If it’s questionable but the Tech is unsure, it falls in favor of the contestant and we move on.

 

[ChrisHerzog]

Back to basics:

DO YOU NEED A STOCK CLASS

There is no stock class in NITRO 20 40 60 F hydro or Twin and same with MONOS

There is one in Tunnels and the rules have worked

Doing away with STOCK IN GAS CLASSES would do away with a lot of issues

That’s a whole different can of worms. The Stock class is popular because you can buy a 200.00 motor instead of a 600.00 motor and be competitive. For this reason alone, I would be for keeping the class. I do think that there are way to many gas classes so I could see looking into eliminating the LS and XLS classes and just having a Stock class and a mod class but that’s just my thoughts.

 

[Danny King]

Back to basics:

DO YOU NEED A STOCK CLASS

There is no stock class in NITRO 20 40 60 F hydro or Twin and same with MONOS

There is one in Tunnels and the rules have worked

Doing away with STOCK IN GAS CLASSES would do away with a lot of issues

Hard to make that statement when stock gas mono class has more boats in it at most events then Any nitro class. Nitro will die a slow spiraling death due to several reasons including lack of change.
There are more stock monos at district races in Florida then all nitro boats combined. Nitro at all but 1 event in Florida is DEAD!
I’m all for open classes. But to race a $200 stock zen makes more sense then anything I’ve seen in rc boats in a longtime.

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

I agree with everything you said above. Proper break in, set up and driving are key. Streamlining the inspection process is all that I’m after. It has to be fast, easy and fair. To DQ someone at a big race at the end of the day over something dumb that has absolutely no benefit is a little overboard in my opinion. It only creates hard feelings and does nothing for promoting the class. Again in my opinion there should only be a handful of certain things, maybe 5 or 6 for a tech to look at and check, then move on.

maybe….
Bearings/Seals
Bore/Stroke
Timing
Carb
And obvious port mods

Once the motor is out of the boat a Tech should be able to check these 5 or 6 things in under 10 minutes and hold the Tech to that.

Also only check the first place boat in each class requiring a “Stock” motor. If he/she passes tech it’s over. Only if the first place boat fails tech and is DQed do you move on to the second place boat and so on.

Finally, it needs to be the exact same procedure at every single race that tech is used. Like the CD endorsement have a Tech test to become a certified Tech. These guys can talk and discuss things that they are seeing and propose amendments to the rules along the way if necessary.

The bottom line is fast and easy, and don’t overthink every single part on an engine. If it’s questionable but the Tech is unsure, it falls in favor of the contestant and we move on.

Agree to Vote !!! thumb up

 

[Wasted wages]

Welcome back Allan!!!
Did you enjoy your vacation??

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

Welcome back Allan!!!
Did you enjoy your vacation??

Yep Don F blocked me on IW for 90 days that’s why ! so I installed upgrade modifications 650HP my engine at my garage

 

[Don Ferrette]

Yep Don F blocked me on IW for 90 days that’s why ! so I installed upgrade modifications 650HP my engine at my garage

Yup sure did and we hope you finally learned your lesson. If you don't follow the selling rules this time it will be your 3rd strike and the ban will be permanent.

 

[Don Ferrette]

That’s a whole different can of worms. The Stock class is popular because you can buy a 200.00 motor instead of a 600.00 motor and be competitive. For this reason alone, I would be for keeping the class. I do think that there are way to many gas classes so I could see looking into eliminating the LS and XLS classes and just having a Stock class and a mod class but that’s just my thoughts.

IMPBA eliminated LS and XLS a long time ago......

 

[Don Ferrette]

I agree with everything you said above. Proper break in, set up and driving are key. Streamlining the inspection process is all that I’m after. It has to be fast, easy and fair. To DQ someone at a big race at the end of the day over something dumb that has absolutely no benefit is a little overboard in my opinion. It only creates hard feelings and does nothing for promoting the class. Again in my opinion there should only be a handful of certain things, maybe 5 or 6 for a tech to look at and check, then move on.

maybe….
Bearings/Seals
Bore/Stroke
Timing
Carb
And obvious port mods

Once the motor is out of the boat a Tech should be able to check these 5 or 6 things in under 10 minutes and hold the Tech to that.

Also only check the first place boat in each class requiring a “Stock” motor. If he/she passes tech it’s over. Only if the first place boat fails tech and is DQed do you move on to the second place boat and so on.

Finally, it needs to be the exact same procedure at every single race that tech is used. Like the CD endorsement have a Tech test to become a certified Tech. These guys can talk and discuss things that they are seeing and propose amendments to the rules along the way if necessary.

The bottom line is fast and easy, and don’t overthink every single part on an engine. If it’s questionable but the Tech is unsure, it falls in favor of the contestant and we move on.

Wish it was that easy Chris, there are even people heating stock cylinder jugs in kilns, placing them in a press to shorten the jug and re-honing the ring areas. The human eye will never see the few thousandths difference and it raises the compression without obvious marks from milling. It's amazing when one pays attention to convos going on nearby especially at big races......

 

[ChrisHerzog]

IMPBA eliminated LS and XLS a long time ago......

I have a new hard copy of the rule book on the way so that I can get back in the grove of things, it’s been a while. However, the group that I run with runs one class for a 26 and one class fir a 30. My point was mean to run a stock class and then run everything else (single cylinder) combined. A lot of guys run 26 mono then enter the same boat in the larger mono class. I have both 26’s and 30’s and feel they should all just run together to cut down on some of the classes.

 

[Mark Anderson]

I like the idea of a claimer, but not an inflated price. Straight street price, no more. You want it to stop modifications, make it a loosing proposition to cheat.

 

[Wasted wages]

Wish it was that easy Chris, there are even people heating stock cylinder jugs in kilns, placing them in a press to shorten the jug and re-honing the ring areas. The human eye will never see the few thousandths difference and it raises the compression without obvious marks from milling. It's amazing when one pays attention to convos going on nearby especially at big races......

That's going a little bit too far... but now you have given me an idea..


Just kidding,, I don't have the energy or time to do something like that....jeez, if you gotta cheat that bad...have at it..

 

[Wasted wages]

BTW,,, I would be good with a restrictor plate and first place check with a set of go no-go gauges... something simple to check a few things and declare the motor as passed or failed.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

A claiming rule would solve many of the problems of the past races. Great suggestion Doc. Also today's rules would work fine if clubs would actually even just tech the first place boat. Modifications for saving an engine is just an excuse, new piston and jugs are only $35.

At the end of a long weekend of racing it is understandably difficult to find someone available to break down a motor. There are points to add up, trophies to hand out, stuff to break down. We have done it but it is difficult. A claim rule would be much easier.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

I agree with everything you said above. Proper break in, set up and driving are key. Streamlining the inspection process is all that I’m after. It has to be fast, easy and fair. To DQ someone at a big race at the end of the day over something dumb that has absolutely no benefit is a little overboard in my opinion. It only creates hard feelings and does nothing for promoting the class. Again in my opinion there should only be a handful of certain things, maybe 5 or 6 for a tech to look at and check, then move on.

maybe….
Bearings/Seals
Bore/Stroke
Timing
Carb
And obvious port mods

Once the motor is out of the boat a Tech should be able to check these 5 or 6 things in under 10 minutes and hold the Tech to that.

Also only check the first place boat in each class requiring a “Stock” motor. If he/she passes tech it’s over. Only if the first place boat fails tech and is DQed do you move on to the second place boat and so on.

Finally, it needs to be the exact same procedure at every single race that tech is used. Like the CD endorsement have a Tech test to become a certified Tech. These guys can talk and discuss things that they are seeing and propose amendments to the rules along the way if necessary.

The bottom line is fast and easy, and don’t overthink every single part on an engine. If it’s questionable but the Tech is unsure, it falls in favor of the contestant and we move on.

At the last gas nats it took 2 guys 1.5 to 2 hours to tech all the stock classes. If 1 motor is illegal you have to keep going down the line till you get to a good one. Also, if someone is "illegal " you have to check it several times to make sure .The club was lucky to find the guys committed to the job. If there were a claim rule I would just get a spare broke in motor to have on hand. Easy fix.

 

[ChrisHerzog]

At the last gas nats it took 2 guys 1.5 to 2 hours to tech all the stock classes. If 1 motor is illegal you have to keep going down the line till you get to a good one. Also, if someone is "illegal " you have to check it several times to make sure .The club was lucky to find the guys committed to the job. If there were a claim rule I would just get a spare broke in motor to have on hand. Easy fix.

Your making my point exactly. If we continue to tech motors, there has to be a better faster way.
One thought is to ask the guys racing in the class if they want the motors to be checked. If the majority doesn’t, there is no reason to do so and a winner is named. If they do only tech the first place boat and give the Tech’s 10 minutes to make a call. If he passes tech it’s over and If he is DQed move on to the 2nd place boat. To make it easy, come up with 5 or 6 items for the tech’s to check and that’s it.

As far as claiming goes, so long as it’s done at the end of the race after all the heats are done and a guy gets enough money to buy a new replacement, I don’t have a problem with that and see no reason why tech inspections and claiming can’t co-ex-exzist.

 

[ChrisHerzog]

A claiming rule would solve many of the problems of the past races. Great suggestion Doc. Also today's rules would work fine if clubs would actually even just tech the first place boat. Modifications for saving an engine is just an excuse, new piston and jugs are only $35.

What your saying is any reason to open up a motor is grounds for a DQ? How petty do we need to get Bill? Personally I would have replaced the jug but in my opinion getting DQed for that was petty. Again my opinion.

This again is why I think we should come up with a list of maybe 5 or 6 items for guys to tech and call it a day. Keep it simple, keep it fair, make it reasonable and fast and live with the results. If we want to add a claim rule on top of that then so be it. It can all be done much simpler and faster is all I’m saying.