Sport 21 NAMBA District 3

[BigSlick]

I know that this has been discussed before, but would like to ask some further questions.

I would love to see the Miss Vegas get accepted as legal for this class. It would help this class grow even bigger as I have not seen much of a turn out at the races, I have attended, and it would give people such as myself, a chance to race at a more competitive level. I believe a well modified vegas could be competitive in this class, as its been in IMPBA.

Now for my questions:

Does this idea have any support in NAMBA?

Can this be voted on?

How can this rule be changed if possible?

If it is not a welcomed idea, what are the negatives? I can think of a ton of positives...

Thanks for the info,

Rob

 

[Rokieboater]

Does the boat/hull itself meet the NAMBA rules for a sport .21? If it does then I think you can change the motor and drive train and turn fin, etc... and race it in sport .21 without any issues at all. :huh: :huh:

As long as the hull meets the requirements no vote is needed.

Robert

 

[BigSlick]

Does the boat/hull itself meet the NAMBA rules for a sport .21? If it does then I think you can change the motor and drive train and turn fin, etc... and race it in sport .21 without any issues at all. :huh: :huh:
As long as the hull meets the requirements no vote is needed.

Robert

It does with the exception that the strut is on the rear of the hull, not through the bottom of the hull. This is what makes it illegal to run in this class and what would be required to be changed.

 

[BigSlick]

-Please delete duplicate-

 

[Don Riek]

Ditto Robert's comments, just modify the setup to comply with existing NAMBA rules and there is no problem. I don't see any benefit to messing with existing rules, they seem fine the way they are and no vote is necessary.

 

[Rokieboater]

Does the boat/hull itself meet the NAMBA rules for a sport .21? If it does then I think you can change the motor and drive train and turn fin, etc... and race it in sport .21 without any issues at all. :huh: :huh:
As long as the hull meets the requirements no vote is needed.

Robert

It does with the exception that the strut is on the rear of the hull, not through the bottom of the hull. This is what makes it illegal to run in this class and what would be required to be changed.

Change the strut and your good to go for sport .21. No vote or rule change needed if you move the strut.

Alot of districts race the boat as a RTR or sportsman class and allow very few changes at all. Namba District 8 should jump in here. Last time I spoke with those guys, this RTR class was the largest turnout in thier district. I belive they have some rules that might be a good guideline for you IF you want it as a different class.

Robert

 

[jetpack]

Alot of districts race the boat as a RTR or sportsman class and allow very few changes at all. Namba District 8 should jump in here. Last time I spoke with those guys, this RTR class was the largest turnout in thier district. I belive they have some rules that might be a good guideline for you IF you want it as a different class.Robert

I've been trying to get my mind into building for racing, but I can't do it with two different sancitons of model powerboat rules.

So I have decided NOT to race, and build for fun and enjoyment for myself at the pond.

Two different sanctions have killed it for me.

If I ever do decide to get with racing, I will build around APBA RC rules and join with that group. Races are usually held along with full size competitions and makes it a good weekend and larger turnout for everyone. It is broader based rules and less restrictive which means more people can use their own ideas and opens up the sport. With NAMBA and IMPBA rules everyone runs cookie-cutter boats because the rules are too well defined which in turn narrows the field of competitors and suppliers.

Sorry if this sounds offensive but these two sanctions have in essence, split the popularity of model powerboating in half and for what clear reason?

I have been asked many times why I don't race and this is my story, and no I am not trying to shut anyone down who races.

Miss Vegas owners might be scratching their head why they come with both IMPBA and NAMBA stickers, but are not built to fit either sanction. It hits the sector hard enough to where even the potential of regained popularity feels it and does not take sides.

The old saying holds true, United We Stand, Divided We Fall.

 

[BigSlick]

Ditto Robert's comments, just modify the setup to comply with existing NAMBA rules and there is no problem. I don't see any benefit to messing with existing rules, they seem fine the way they are and no vote is necessary.

The MOD RTR class in district 3 has also become very large with two heats to accommodate the class. However not having a stock RTR class gives the beginner, not much of a shot, with the more experience racers. Opening up the 21 class would give those more experienced racers another level of competition to move up to.

Another option, since two heats are running anyway, would be to create a stock RTR class for the new modelers. If not enough show up for two, then put them together for that race.

I have tried the mod to make the boat legal, but did not have much success with it. I have a spare hull that I may give it another shot, but making the boat legal as it is would be my prefrence.

 

[captwalter]

Big Slick: It seems to me that there are not many Sport 21's at our races and not many RTR"s. Why not run them together and give seperate prizes. For example if you are the 4th boat to finish in the combined race and the 1st RTR then you get a 1st place trophy. We did that in the full size boats for many years and it worked very well. Perry

 

[Andy Greene]

No offense Perry , but I see that as a scoring nightmere from the CD'S point of view, could be wrong . It would be better fit as suggested, add MOD- and if enough boats dont show , combine class.

Bigslick, you said you attempted the strut under the hull mod and it didnt work for you. Is this a mod that CANT be done on the boat sucessfully due to design nature. I ask this question because I have never really looked at one with that thought in mind. If it can be done , and the hull fits the SP21 rules, then no-one can tell you that you cant run it in SP21 .. Once again, my .02

Andy

 

[BigSlick]

Perry, that sounds like a hell of an idea. Its up to the driver and pit man to tell the CD who finished in what place, so would think, it wouldn't be that difficult to do. I would suggest only allowing fully moded vegas, upgrade engine, to run in this combined class and leave the stock RTRs together. As the speed difference may present a problem with the stock boats. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, that wouldn't be a bad idea. Stock RTR (a beginner class), and SPORT 21/ MOD RTR combined class but scored individually.

Bigslick, you said you attempted the strut under the hull mod and it didnt work for you. Is this a mod that CANT be done on the boat sucessfully due to design nature. I ask this question because I have never really looked at one with that thought in mind. If it can be done , and the hull fits the SP21 rules, then no-one can tell you that you cant run it in SP21 .. Once again, my .02
Andy

I do not have much experience with this aspect of modifying, so the fact I had problems isn't a bigger shocker. At the same time I was working on my only hull and was afraid of damaging it. I have another spare hull now and want to take another crack at it. Once done, I am not sure how the hull will handle.

 

[piper_chuck]

For NAMBA, in addition to moving the strut under the hull, you also need to add something under the hull to reduce the belly pan depth to no more than 3/8". After this it will fit the rules.

 

[redracer]

Perry one of the biggest classes now is rtr more and more people getting into it and boy they run, see you in palm beach Robert

 

[BigSlick]

True Piper, forgot to mention that. I had also accomplished that by adding ply to the bottom, but it also introduced more weight. Lets just say unless the rule is changed, the mods to make it legal and competative are not worth the trouble.

Perry one of the biggest classes now is rtr more and more people getting into it and boy they run, see you in palm beach Robert

You bet bud, save me a spot. I do not think I will be able to go on Friday.

 

[Al Waters]

True Piper, forgot to mention that. I had also accomplished that by adding ply to the bottom, but it also introduced more weight. Lets just say unless the rule is changed, the mods to make it legal and competative are not worth the trouble.

Perry one of the biggest classes now is rtr more and more people getting into it and boy they run, see you in palm beach Robert

You bet bud, save me a spot. I do not think I will be able to go on Friday.

You should be receiving your Propwash by mail real soon. There are NAMBA proposals to vote on. Here is one that is related to belly pan on sport boats. You can get all proposals from the NAMBA web site.

Proposal #9: Replace existing Section 27.B.11 with:

No boat will have an after plane greater than 60% of the total length of the hull.

Length “C” will be measured from the transom to the point where the sponson is

attached to the hull (Figure 1).

Note: This change, if passed, would eliminate Figure 2 in this section as well as the

second column in Table 1 which relates to belly pan depth.

Thanks, Al Waters

 

[P THOMAS]

Why whould someone pay for a rtr boat and the have to buy another 21 motor and do all these mods to make it fit the sport 21 hydro class? Seem to me that starting out with a boat designed for the 21 motors would be best. My supersport 21 hydro or others like the Blazer Whiplash would be alot easier to make competive. Vegas has been modded to run and win in the sport 21hydro class, but not by some newbies.

There are many sport 21 hydros in Fla now You just have to make it a dist point class or just add it to the race flyers and they will come.

here are my boat pictures

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=305

PHIL T

 

[Andy Greene]

Why whould someone pay for a rtr boat and the have to buy another 21 motor and do all these mods to make it fit the sport 21 hydro class? Seem to me that starting out with a boat designed for the 21 motors would be best. My supersport 21 hydro or others like the Blazer Whiplash would be alot easier to make competive. Vegas has been modded to run and win in the sport 21hydro class, but not by some newbies.There are many sport 21 hydros in Fla now You just have to make it a dist point class or just add it to the race flyers and they will come.

here are my boat pictures

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=305

PHIL T

Its already going to be a District class next year Phil. The class grew pretty well this year in its trial basis.

 

[P THOMAS]

Why whould someone pay for a rtr boat and the have to buy another 21 motor and do all these mods to make it fit the sport 21 hydro class? Seem to me that starting out with a boat designed for the 21 motors would be best. My supersport 21 hydro or others like the Blazer Whiplash would be alot easier to make competive. Vegas has been modded to run and win in the sport 21hydro class, but not by some newbies.There are many sport 21 hydros in Fla now You just have to make it a dist point class or just add it to the race flyers and they will come.

here are my boat pictures

<a href="https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=305" target="_blank">https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=305</a>

PHIL T

Its already going to be a District class next year Phil. The class grew pretty well this year in its trial basis.

Hey glad to hear that. We really enjoy racing the 21 boats here in dist 4 and 14 IMPBA

 

[piper_chuck]

Why whould someone pay for a rtr boat and the have to buy another 21 motor and do all these mods to make it fit the sport 21 hydro class? Seem to me that starting out with a boat designed for the 21 motors would be best.

If a person knows they're going to race sport 21, I agree that starting out with a boat designed for the cless would be best. However, I don't think people start out with the RTR intending to end up modifying it to run in sport 21. A common scenario starts with people buying an RTR at their local hobby shop or online. They run it some and eventually find out about local races. If they're lucky the club supports the RTR class so they can race with boats that have similar speeds. In pursuit of ever increasing speed, they start to wonder what else they could do. For whatever reason, they realize their boat is the same size as the typical sport 21, so they begin to think about "upgrading" to a .21.

In talking with a bunch of people over the last year and a half, it's become obvious that beginning with something that works is significantly less intimidating than starting out with a pile of parts. For example, one fairly new person I talked with was VERY worried that he would make a mistake cutting the slot for the stuffing box and end up ruining a several hundred $ hull. For these people, they can gradually increase their skills by making evolutionary changes to their RTR boat. This way they never step too far out of their comfort zone. Contrast this with having to put down considerably more money for a pile of parts and not knowing if you have the skills needed to make it work.

An exception to this scenario is the person who already knows someone who can help them get a boat built and running. Having a support structure gives them the necessary warm fuzzy that their pile of parts will eventually become a boat that runs well.

Moving on, the job of getting a traditional, non-RTR boat running could be made much less daunting by borrowing from the ARF concept that's so common for R/C planes. This would be a package that included an already painted hull and the necessary hardware to get the boat running. Assembly would consist of installing the parts in the right places, perhaps after drilling some holes per the instructions. Such a package would bridge the gap between the existing "kit" boats (where the buyer has to prep and paint the hull, choose and buy every piece of hardware, and then install it all) and the RTRs. If you look at a boat like the Aquacraft Top Speed 2, you'll realize that it is an exact fit for what I described above and the sales results show that it's a good idea. Perhaps this concept could be expanded to some other classes, such as sport 21?

 

[ek kustomz]

Chuck,

The problem with the "ARF" theory is that many of the builders, in my opinion put waaaaay to large of a price on their time. Don't get me wrong they all have good reason to do so. I mean look at the Brown's boats they offer a boat that is ARTR, then look at the PRICE!!!! I own one of their boats and it's fantastic. The TS2 hulls are reasonably priced but thats because the are mass produced. I for one would love to offer ARTR boats at a reasonable price, thats because I enjoy building them. One of the guys that seems to be on the right page for this Is Anthony, he offers his Bantam/Stinger 12 hulls at a very reasonable price. The problem with that is it's another "NEW" class that very few people are trying to get into, I own 3 12 boats, That anyone is more than welcome to race. The point is it's very hard to find a builder that IS willing to sell their boats assembled at such a low price.

James,

HOLY CRAP, I actually agree with everything you said I think that most people get an RTR as an easy entry into the boating world. GREAT IDEA, what would be an even better idea would be for everyone to accept these boats and the class. I don't have a vegas, but I do have a spare CMB21 and would like to get into the SP21 class. I'm broke, my next option is that of Slick's get a vegas and mod it, it's close enough to do that. I kinda agree with slick it's only 2 mods to change it and make it legal but why not try to change the rules to accomodate. Most of the guys that race RTR are tight on funds, are not going to want to stay there they want to move up , so instead of making them completely mod the hull they have or buy a new hull (remeber$$$$$), in turn possibly damaging it to the point of uselessness to fit another class, why not allow the hull in said class and let it work as a stepping stone to get further into the hobby?? We are working very hard to grow tis sport, to do so we HAVE to be more accomodating.

My point is: When you open a door you get a path, When you close it you get a dead end. Start making paths, not dead ends.

Well Said James.

Zach