Spec FE boat racing..

[Rod Sanata]

IMO the P-limited "spec" classes have helped build our club. It is most likely one of the biggest factors that has helped us see steady racer participation but more so an increase of new racers, These are our largest classes, The classes have offered cost effective racing that has been quite fair and equal, Most often races are won by the best driving. We have opted not to spec the ESC as we felt it was more benneficial to have it open, so racers could use ESC's that they already owned or purchase others that offer the ability to use the same equipment in hotter set ups if they decide to grow into them. I have tested the ESCs with adjustable timing ,they do offer a slight bennifit, but more gains seem to come from better hull and prop tuning methods IMO. I think the Limited and spec classes offer the largest growth potential to the FE side of r/c boating.

 

[Grimracer]

David,

Good post.. lots of good stuff in there..

Where are the newbies you speak of coming from, club level not national level?

Rod,

Good post... do you think Production class racing could bring more new racers? Would you drop a high-end class to bring in new racers.. would you drop a Spec class to bring in new races?

Just random thoughts..

Grim

 

[TinoAlmanza]

I have never been to a huge race so I may be blind to this but as for pure speed.....the UL-1 out of the box is a **** missle. We have a Pro Boat that ran with us last week and it was pretty quick too. Other then props they were bone stock. I just don't see how spending money on a better speedo makes them "better". It seems to me that prop work is where the improvements will come into play. If we wanted newbies to gain that extra advantage then one of the stud prop men will have to let loose some secrets (if that's the right word). I know some guy that goes by Grim might have the know how /hint /nudge. A nice big article on what mods effect exactly what would be the ticket. I know it's a black art. I am just starting to learn it. This is all coming from a newbies point of view BTW.

As far as handling comes in I have no idea what makes things handle better. Maybe I just never accross it but I don't even know how to tune a turn fin. I have given up on finishing races and have decided to just get really good at paddling our recovery boat. I may not the fastest guy at the pond but I laugh everytime I get on plane and hear that high pitch whine.

Rod and I are perfect examples of speed, handling, and finishing races. He finishes 90% of the time. I finish 10%. We both have a blast doing what we do.

 

[Grimracer]

Great post..

This boat racing gig is a hoot..

Hum.. hang around I waters..

Chris Wood

Stu Barr

Brian Buaas

on and on..

They are the MEN when it come to props...

Grim

BTY.. im going to be off racing this weekend so please dont let this thread go "POOF". I have NO INTENTIONS of playing on the net while Im gone.

Good luck to all that are playing toy boats this weekend!

 

[raptor347]

I don't know that I belong in that company. I think I'm just more willing ruin props by "over modding" them than most. You wouldn't believe how many props are sitting in the shop that don't work.

Yes you will get bigger gains with boat and prop tuning (let's not forget stick time). But once everything else is refined, you can often find a little more with timing adjustments. More timing won't get you anything but cooked parts if the rest of the setup isn't right.

I still don't up the timing on my Neus. These spec motors seem to benefit more from timing adjustments than I would have guessed.

 

[Eric Bourlet]

I have never been to a huge race so I may be blind to this but as for pure speed.....the UL-1 out of the box is a **** missle. We have a Pro Boat that ran with us last week and it was pretty quick too. Other then props they were bone stock. I just don't see how spending money on a better speedo makes them "better". It seems to me that prop work is where the improvements will come into play. If we wanted newbies to gain that extra advantage then one of the stud prop men will have to let loose some secrets (if that's the right word). I know some guy that goes by Grim might have the know how /hint /nudge. A nice big article on what mods effect exactly what would be the ticket. I know it's a black art. I am just starting to learn it. This is all coming from a newbies point of view BTW.

As far as handling comes in I have no idea what makes things handle better. Maybe I just never across it but I don't even know how to tune a turn fin. I have given up on finishing races and have decided to just get really good at paddling our recovery boat. I may not the fastest guy at the pond but I laugh every time I get on plane and hear that high pitch whine.

Rod and I are perfect examples of speed, handling, and finishing races. He finishes 90% of the time. I finish 10%. We both have a blast doing what we do.

As Mike points out. Hang around here and look for post by the people he mentioned. One thing that is a constant no matter what form of racing I have been in is that people always think that there is a magic bullet (secret) that makes the fast guys "the fast guys". The only secret is this... The "Fast Guys" are always going to be "The Fast Guys" And here is how you can be one too…Look for the fast guys and when they give you idea take it all in, don't argue with them (and no they don't know everything so pick and choose what info will work for you by testing). Then take what they give you and go out and test, then test more. Make one change at a time and see what it affects. Do that over and over and over. Then read anything you can get your hands on that pertains to propellers, Bernoulli, Hulls... and remember there is no one right way. That guy is not faster than you around the course because they have some huge advantage other than they put in the time. When I built my P Spec Hydro I had no idea what prop to start with, so I asked Bran B. and he not only told me but showed me his prop (hmm there is a fast guy that shared the elusive "secret"), that is now a starting point for me to work from to find what works best for my driving style. The odds are it will not be the same setup as him in the end but I bet you I will be right there with him around the buoys before I'm done. It gets frustrating at times that people just want to go out and buy the exact same thing as the "fast guys" and think that's all it takes. The short version of the Secret is (now keep this a secret and don't tell anyone else this is between just you and me) PUT IN THE TIME and when you think you have learned everything go PUT IN MORE TIME. The bottom line is that no matter how you restrict it the fast guys are always going to be the fast guys because they are the ones paying their dues by Putting in the Time. Now go out and join the Fast Guys ranks and Put in the Time testing instead of typing.

 

[Patrick M]

Ditto what Eric said................

The part about the Snowdude sharing his knowledge and setups is very true.... Brian will tell anyone what he is running.... no secrets. h34r:

The bottom line is that innovation and knowledge can help to a great degree, but without the time invested in testing you're not gonna be near the top.

 

[TinoAlmanza]

Ouch. Didn't mean anything by secrets. Was hoping the quotations would give that away. What I think would be huge for us rookies is a referance to what mods do what.

Here's an example. I have been goofing around with the tips lately. What would a very pointed tip do compared to the rounded ones. What does cupping the ends do. Is it possible to add/remove lift to a prop. Just crap like that would be nice to find. And yes I have searched and asked before to be given the standard "try it and find out for yourself" answer. I guess it's possible folks really don't know.

Wow I totally high jacked this thread.....sorry!!!

 

[Patrick M]

Wrong button...... dang computers!

 

[Eric Bourlet]

Ouch. Didn't mean anything by secrets. Was hoping the quotations would give that away. What I think would be huge for us rookies is a referance to what mods do what.

Here's an example. I have been goofing around with the tips lately. What would a very pointed tip do compared to the rounded ones. What does cupping the ends do. Is it possible to add/remove lift to a prop. Just crap like that would be nice to find. And yes I have searched and asked before to be given the standard "try it and find out for yourself" answer. I guess it's possible folks really don't know.

Wow I totally high jacked this thread.....sorry!!!

Yeah me too on the hijacking., don't know what the ouch is, no malice was intended. Some things you just do need to try for yourself.

Look here http://rcboat.com/past.htm

http://www.modelpowerboat.com/forum/article/propellers.htm

http://rcprops.com/TechNotes/rcprop_tech_info.htm

Like I said no magic but you will get more out of it if you Put in the time to try things. And there is tons of info out there if you are willing to look for it, Like "The Fast Guys" do.

 

[TinoAlmanza]

It's hard to tell malice in a forums, sorry for thinking it was.

I have read those over and over all winter. Bending props is a blast.

For those looking for another thread Voodoo props is another good one.

Back on subject. I have no experience with the Aquacraft stuff but is the BJ speedo under rated? I have tortured mine and have never had a failure. Maybe we under value the factory controllers?

 

[lohring]

The out of the box and spec classes have added a lot to the hobby. Our club of long time gas and nitro racers has been slowly been adding electric boats to the mix. It started with the Super V 27 (thanks Grim & Russ for mine), added the UL-1, as stock classes, and is converting to spec riggers. I expect spec tunnels will follow since the electric versions are great substitutes for the 3.5 nitro boats. The ready to run electrics helped many of us through the learning curve for electrics.

I see the spec electrics taking over many of the 3.5 nitro classes. Open electrics are still too expensive to really compete in the bigger boats. Gas remains king in the largest boats for low cost and reliability. Spec electrics have the same advantage in the smaller boats. It is much easier to test prop and hull ideas in the G1 gas and spec electric classes due to reliability and the level playing field from fairly equal power plants. The competition is better as a result.

Lohring Miller

 

[Rod Sanata]

Rod,

Good post... do you think Production class racing could bring more new racers? Would you drop a high-end class to bring in new racers.. would you drop a Spec class to bring in new races?

Just random thoughts..

Grim

I think the way a production Class only brings in more "Racers" is if the model produced fits somewhere in an already existing class be it spec or otherwise, Sometimes it's tough to get a class filled as it is, If a choice must be made to drop an existing class to adopt a new production class it seems that becomes a double-edge sword, as now there is a risk of driving away the racers who may run the class that is being dropped. IMO there is more to be gained by all involved if the manufacturers of these products created them to exisisting popular class rules structure ,if thier goal is to get them in the hands of racers . It seems for manufacturers and perspective racers to expect sanctioning bodies and race organizers to have to adjust and reorganize a class with each new "Production" Boat that comes along is nearly impossible and becomes destructive to existing classes. JMO!

 

[lohring]

In NAMBA District 8, the Miss Vegas class, formally known as Sport 18 Hydro, gave the existing racers a fun, inexpensive boat to race. The newcomers could race on a fairly even field with the experienced racers. The newcomers learned the standard tricks from the experienced racers and bought more advanced boats. The overall result was more racers in the sport. I believe this is just starting to happen with the electric spec classes. The 1/10 scale group in District 8 is the largest club in NAMBA. They are a spec motor class.

In NAMBA District 9, a nitro stronghold, a large number of nitro racers have converted to gas as the larger nitro engines got more expensive and disappeared. I believe the quality of the racing has improved. The gas classes as currently run in NAMBA are basically spec classes with very similar engines developing nearly equal power. The electric spec classes can do the same thing with boats that are smaller in size. One long time racer told me this spring that he could not physically handle the size and weight of the gas boats and that was why he still ran the smaller nitro classes. Spec electrics may be the answer.

Lohring Miller

 

[Rod Sanata]

Lets here what you guys have to say about what the intent of Spec class racing is or means.

ROCK IT

Grim

It's fun. We have a good group of P specers in our little club. Pretty equal speeds makes for good racing. Now to figure out how to finish races!

P.S. since we are doing a little bench racing....I'm pretty sure I have the fastest P spec boat in the WORLD . I hope you all get to come on down to Colorado in August so I can prove it!

I hope to be there!

Grim

Mike Glad to see that you'll be coming to Colorado for the Nats. Got your registation yesterday. It should be Fun!!! see you there.