RTR rules

[toyotatruckin]

Ill TRY and be nice here-----have a nice day B)

 

[piper_chuck]

And since we're having a civil discussion about this, here are some thoughts on the cost issue...

Consider the following as two possible ways to handle a newcomer who shows up at the pond with his brand new $300 RTR boat.

Option 1: Put them in with people who have spent lots of money upgrading their boats, engines, and hardware and let them fend for themselves against significantly more powerful engines.

Option 2: Put them in with other boaters of varying experience levels who may have invested time tuning their boats, but are still running them mostly stock. Due to their experience and time running the boats, some are a bit faster and/or handle better, but they are all in the same speed range because they've chosen to keep the boats fairly close to stock.

When a club is trying to encourage newcomers who show up at the pond with their brand new $300 RTR boat, which is more likely to succeed?

The lesson they will get from option 1 is that this hobby is all about spending money. If they have enough disposable income, perhaps they'll stay. It's also possible, even likely, that they'll decide, before they ever experience how fun it is to race, they have better things to do than throw money at toy boats.

Option 2 gives them a message that the club has taken steps to support them. When they see experienced boaters making a conscious choice to run slower boats to give them a class to race in, they will pretty quickly learn that the club values their participation and that they can have fun without having to pay even more $ to upgrade their boat.

Many of us have observed an interesting pattern with newcomers who start out with RTR boats. The ones who stick with the hobby usually end up with bigger, faster boats within a year or two. As an experienced boater am I helping them more by encouraging them to throw money at upgrading their RTR boat or by suggesting that they squeeze what they can out of the boat largely as they bought it and saving the money for their next boat?

While you're considering the above scenarios, also ponder for a bit on the motivation of people participating in these discussions. I'm in the hobby to make friends and have fun. I am not in the hobby to make money. My motivation is simple, to build a framework in which we can encourage new people without forcing them to throw huge amounts of $ into a toy boats before they can experience the thrill of victory. And before anyone gets riled up at the thought that my use of the word "toy" is somehow intended to degrade RTRs, I consider all of my R/C boats to be toys, even my .80 Roadrunner!

Contrast that to the motivation of someone who is trying to make money from the hobby, perhaps specifically RTR upgrades. Of course they're going to complain about anything that attempts to keep the costs of a class down, it reduces their ability to make money.

 

[piper_chuck]

How's the weather in Wichita these days?

 

[toyotatruckin]

its cold!!

 

[hydro rob]

.

 

[piper_chuck]

And since it seems it's not obvious to some, Phil Thomas and Andy Brown market an entirely different level of products to an largely different group of customers than Aquacraft and Proboat market their RTR products to. Oh, and Sport 20 hydro is an entirely different animal than RTR.
And where's the value in telling someone with a $300 boat that they should race it against people who spend that much or more on just the engine? Perhaps you've lost sight of who the RTR class is designed for?

Im not sure which direction your going with those statements. Before I interpret them the way I see them, can you clarify? I was considering joining the IMPBA but I would like to make an educated/informed decision before hand.

Thanks

The direction I was going is that some people see the RTR class as being a good place to provide low(er) cost racing for people who are new(er) to the hobby, or for those who don't want to, or can't, spend as much. Other people are fighting against anything that would help keep costs under control. The IMPBA rules that are up for vote provide a stock class that limits what can be done to the boats, helping to keep the costs down, and a modified class that opens the door for significant changes. The comments about sport 20 and specific vendors were in response to something I heard about through the grapevine...

 

[piper_chuck]

if you noticed i pulled that post due to NOT wanting to be a public xxxxxxx. to you------nuff said

I just saw.

 

[Don Ferrette]

if you noticed i pulled that post due to NOT wanting to be a public xxxxxxx. to you------nuff said

Anymore crap like this and this thread will get closed a a few "timeouts" issued. :angry:

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

Most RTR racing will be done at the club/district level. A club/district can establish whatever, or none what-so-ever, rules regarding RTR events. I believe having a set of national rules is a good starting point. If RTR classes were ever offered at the IMPBA Internats everyone would know what "goes" and what "doesn't go." If someone doesn't agree with the rules, they can take the "doesn't participate" approach.

JD

 

[opio]

ahhh Jerry you had a great thing going with the outlaws you were running, that would solve some peoples gripes lol!!!! but hey what ever!!! ill still race the 21's if i gotta

 

[TERMINATOR]

ahhh Jerry you had a great thing going with the outlaws you were running, that would solve some peoples gripes lol!!!! but hey what ever!!! ill still race the 21's if i gotta

ok guys as the moderator of the rtr forum.. i will say this one time. i am not trying to be a jerk , but we "all" need to act like adults here.. im not pointing any fingers and i did not mean to come in at the end of this.. and yes we all know these are "toy boats" we play with, so lets take everything with a grain of salt..remember other people are watching and if we are truly intrested in seeing this sport grow..we do not need a newcomer venturing into this site and seeing all the griping about a topic that i feel will never be solved. thanks for your intrest in what i have written and please keep it clean.

terry

 

[opio]

if your quoting me jerry did have an outlaw class with modded vegas that where run here in WA. if you thought i ment something else sorry................

 

[Mr.freeze]

chuck thank you for responding in a calm manner that was nice of you, but you still didn't really answer my question.

Did I miss your explanation of what makes a boat considered rtr and where those rules are in the rule book? I can see why you would want to keep cost down but answer me this why does the boat have to use the same hardware or hop-up hardware from the same manufacturer?

Why was this rule put in place?

What difference does it make what rudder or what turn fin a guy uses?

Maybe it just me but I don't see why you would need to put those restrictions on a boat.

"Look at the RTR rules in the book today for an example. The class was designed for a specific boat that fell flat on its face. " do you care to elaberate as to why rules were put into place for one, as you said specific, boat in the first place.

I'm not trying to cause trouble on your forum, I'm just asking some simple questions.

Thank you

 

[Aaron Johnson]

I just joined the IMPBA this past August and pretty much the main reason was because the stock RTR boat class finally provided the door for me to get my foot in. I've learned alot already, even in this short time. I've put my two cents in on a so called "Mod" class here in District 14 as I was for it but now as I sit here and read all thats said about RTR rules, my thoughts about a mod class has changed. Now that I think about it, I kinda like the rules we have set in place, the only thing I would like to see us impliment here, is the claimer rule that I read about earlier. If with that inplace and all the boats run about equal it should be no problem giving us something to experiment with while at the same time keeping us together and making a good race. I've seen a stock vegas hold its own against the sport 21 class. Race the mods against them. It's the "mods " way of racing just as fast as a 21 but maybe a little cheaper than the 21. I entered mine against them last year being stock and I plan to do it again this year. I may not win, but it's fun away, more experience time. Being able to run an 18 in both rtr and sport 21 enables you to run in two classes and still be competetive in both. It is nice that an RTR is so relatively inexpensive. It enables me to spend a little more on my 40 boat in doing up for next year. I've done set my sights on a scale boat for 2010. Cant wait!!!!!

 

[Kelly Miller]

How is everyone today, I don't know what the weather is like where all of you are but it is dang crunchy here.

The RTR is has been an absolutely oustanding leap foward for our hobby and the sport of racing. what I envisioned the RTR to do has happened time and time again and I still see the same process happening over and over again, A guy or group of guys show up at the rc boat pond (we run in a public park so we experience this a lot) with a rc boat that was purchased at a hobby store or online that is what we call a "RTR" and wants to run the boat. The clubs have embrace these situations and help them get the boat running, all great so far. Then the subject of racing comes up, in the last several years some models have become very popular for whatever reason and we have an individual or a group of guys with all the same model of boat that want to "race" their new pride and joy. Like Jerry said this usually is handeled at the local level and in the "encouragement" of the hobby and sport of RC boat racing they may set "guidlines" to create a local class that works well for them and I might add they have enjoyed their class enormously.

I saw the need for a national set of rules to give the RTR boat a place because I feel as though it is an exceptional tool for any club to encourage club growth for new members or greater involvement from within because it is a relative inexpensive way to race. Wheather it be the guy showing up at the pond with the RTR or the person at the pond that has been running\racing for a while between the two hopefully one of them will have become familiar with the fact that there are a set of "guidlines" we call rules, that cover the involvement of their boat in racing wheather it be a established spec class by engine size or manufacturer. The most common "Race Flyer" amendment is what I call the "similar performance" ruling made at local level ie (probaot and vegas can run stock together and mod together) the point is we wanted to make sure everyone had a place to be and first and foremost "have fun" and feel as though they had a competative chance.

Like I said before the RTR has been absolutely the best thing to happen to RC boating in the last 10 years. I have seen guys learn about how to tune a boat and better yet teach their kids a thing or two and most of the time they learn TOGETHER and sometimes not about boats but about each other. I have seen within one year guys explode into the hobby by just sport running and in a lot of cases racing either just locally or on a National level. The list of positive impact these boats have had is endless.

Although I do not have the authority to say so I think I can say with a great deal of assurance that the RTR class will never ever in a million years be a US-1 class although it may be run as a specialty class who knows. but the need for guidlines in my opinion was needed.

Freeze:

The hardware rule was for stock class only and we felt as though you had to keep some limits in place and within the manufacturer was the answer. stock class lends itself to have a lot of lines drawn in it.

The first fact of growth through the RTR is the FACT that most evryone wants to "HOP IT UP" which in my opinion is where the door is opened up to lead to further involvement with other spec classes. So we came up with MOD class and removed a lot of limitations, actually all of them except engine size. Very cool to see what guys come up with to get the racing edge and realistically what spec class racing is all about.

These rules do not apply to just one make and model of boat and I feel as though that has been the hardest thing to get through to people is that if 3 guys show up with shockwave 55's (that would be an absolute hoot to watch) and want to race, we have guidlines to follow. If 3 guys show up with proboat 1\8th scales....we have a class. The whole reason for this class was that these were mass produced models distributed throughout the entire US being sold in great enough numbers that guys that have never run rc boats before were showing up with them at the local rc boat pond and not just in one or two areas but in several areas across the Country or guys that have been racing noticed that "Holy Cow for 300 bucks it is ready to go and it runs great!!! get one also and we will race"

I am sure we will see more and more mass produced Ready to Run boats come along and hopefully the manufacturers will more closely follow established "Spec Class" rules but the reality is their greatest segment of customers have absolutely no interest in racing at an organized level. Again rules have a tendency to draws lines and we thought a statement of quantity produced would further help define "mass produced". Again involvement in racing is the goal and if someone shows up with their new pride and joy and it is the only one like it, I would personally do everything I could to find a place for them to race.

The whole goal is "Have Fun" and "Getting Involved".

I have yet to find a better jolt of adrenaline than Racing RC Boats.

Kelly Miller

316-683-4581

 

[Mr.freeze]

Like I said before the RTR has been absolutely the best thing to happen to RC boating in the last 10 years. I have seen guys learn about how to tune a boat and better yet teach their kids a thing or two and most of the time they learn TOGETHER and sometimes not about boats but about each other. I have seen within one year guys explode into the hobby by just sport running and in a lot of cases racing either just locally or on a National level. The list of positive impact these boats have had is endless.

Although I do not have the authority to say so I think I can say with a great deal of assurance that the RTR class will never ever in a million years be a US-1 class although it may be run as a specialty class who knows. but the need for guidelines in my opinion was needed.

Freeze:

The hardware rule was for stock class only and we felt as though you had to keep some limits in place and within the manufacturer was the answer. stock class lends itself to have a lot of lines drawn in it.

The first fact of growth through the RTR is the FACT that most everyone wants to "HOP IT UP" which in my opinion is where the door is opened up to lead to further involvement with other spec classes. So we came up with MOD class and removed a lot of limitations, actually all of them except engine size. Very cool to see what guys come up with to get the racing edge and realistically what spec class racing is all about.

These rules do not apply to just one make and model of boat and I feel as though that has been the hardest thing to get through to people is that if 3 guys show up with shockwave 55's (that would be an absolute hoot to watch) and want to race, we have guidelines to follow. If 3 guys show up with proboat 1\8th scales....we have a class. The whole reason for this class was that these were mass produced models distributed throughout the entire US being sold in great enough numbers that guys that have never run rc boats before were showing up with them at the local rc boat pond and not just in one or two areas but in several areas across the Country or guys that have been racing noticed that "Holy Cow for 300 bucks it is ready to go and it runs great!!! get one also and we will race"

I am sure we will see more and more mass produced Ready to Run boats come along and hopefully the manufacturers will more closely follow established "Spec Class" rules but the reality is their greatest segment of customers have absolutely no interest in racing at an organized level. Again rules have a tendency to draws lines and we thought a statement of quantity produced would further help define "mass produced". Again involvement in racing is the goal and if someone shows up with their new pride and joy and it is the only one like it, I would personally do everything I could to find a place for them to race.

The whole goal is "Have Fun" and "Getting Involved".

I have yet to find a better jolt of adrenaline than Racing RC Boats.

Kelly Miller

316-683-4581

Thank you Kelly for responding and shedding some light as to the reason for the rules that were put in place I'm sure this will help the many new boaters looking to get involved. I do appreciate the fact you're willing to make provisions for anyone who shows up, and maybe if more people had this additude we could see an even greater turn out to the events. This is, to me, a step in the right direction, and maybe others will follow, time will tell.

Thank you

Stan

RC boats have become more than a hobby, it's an addiction.