New round nose

[Ray Fuller]

The new boat looks like a winner , Brian Bauus , Gregg Schweers and Mark Ferreia

tested all after noon Sunday. Boat runs stiaght and true corner like it is on rails .

The only thing that was noticed that the boats CG will have to go a little forward of the old set up because of the high speeds that it is running. We were hoping for the same speed with a stronger boat , but we were happy with both stronger and faster. Boat are being shipped to me at the end of this week. Boats are epoxy with shinny primmer. We may offer the boat at a latter time with gel coat, but not this year. Ray

 

[raptor347]

I finally got my head out of the epoxy bucket and ran my personal Dark Horse shovel today. Greg and Mark were there with new boats also.

Second run in LSH trim produced 37-38MPH (radar gun) straitaway speeds with fantastic handling. Minimal speed scrubed in the turns and stable as could be.

Swaped out the power system for a Neu 1509/1Y, 8 cells and a detongued X442. Very little setup change, slightly deeper strut. Three packs of Gp3300's all ran consistent 48 MPH strait speeds and the same solid handling. The forth run was with a pack of new 3700's, it netted a strait line speed of 51 MPH.

The boat handles great and responds well to setup changes.

I shipped the first production hulls up to Ray last Friday. you guys with the early orders should start seeing hulls by the end of the week.

Brian Buaas

 

[Andrewg]

It should be good you FLOPPED IT from the best hull in the business and one that is still on the market - basically you stole my intellectual property.

Then you publicised it as the hull that is going to beat the Aussie Cabover - without telling everyone IT IS THE CABOVER with changes to mounting points and cowl and a 1/2" tacked on the back - not for performance but to work around a rule.

The airtrap - which makes the hull work is mine - the sponsons are Sam Muas who gave me permission to use them.

What is really pathetic is you didnt even ask if you could use the hull despite the fact I had been supplying you for a year with them.

Well done guys - you wonder why fe is a fractious communtiy look to your own behaviour

Pity you wont have any of those records my new boat is going to take off my old one.

 

[Ray Fuller]

It should be good you FLOPPED IT from the best hull in the business and one that is still on the market  - basically you stole my intellectual property.
Then you publicised it as the hull that is going to beat the Aussie Cabover - without telling everyone IT IS THE CABOVER with  changes to mounting points and cowl and a 1/2" tacked on the back - not for performance but to work around a rule.

The airtrap - which makes the hull work is mine - the sponsons are Sam Muas who gave me permission to use them. 

What is really pathetic is you didnt even ask if you could use the hull despite the fact I had been supplying you for a year with them.

Well done guys - you wonder why fe is a fractious communtiy look to your own behaviour

Pity you wont have any of those records my new boat is going to take off my old one.

90499[/snapback]

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Andrew The boat is not a copy of the cab over, got to admitt i thought about it long and hard . Then we said what don't we like about the cabover .the 23 7/8 size

the hatch fit

the back of the sponsons not 90 degrees

shape of the top deck

depth of the tunnel

In O sport hydro the boat was a handfull to drive.

The hatch limited the boat to only a few hulls

But most of all bottom too weak and and the boat was to fragile .

As far as the air trap , Back in 1998 at the SAW I handed Dick the first Hacker motor he ever saw all set up with a controller and plugs I had it in my pocket. He put it in the Maus round nose and made a run could not keep it on the water it was so fast. Then I remmebered Sam Maus saying at the Nats the tunnel brack line was to far back. With some hatch tape we changed the line so air would exit out faster and not pack under so much . With a big ??? in are minds are we going to sink another boat , it went in the water, boat was fast and solid down the lake for the first pass on the return run into the wind it got a little loose but stayed on the water for a 57 plus mph world record. Looking more at the bottom Dick said ya we have to change the the brake line to just behind the sponsons. But the boat worked ok with the tape .

So Brian Buaas who is a master at glass work took the sample and did all the math and said why would we want to splash a boat like this , and said lets just build a new boat. O by the way the tunnel is also 1/4 " deeper. We only wanted to build a strong boat that would stand up to oval racing . The extra speed and supper rock solid running was a surprise to all of us. But we are pleased that you would even say we copyed your boat it a good boat and it also will be hard to beat with a good driver. But we may put a few of these 2nd and 3 place drivers in the winning spot . Ray

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Ray,

Well put! You have to keep in mind the source, Andrew still thinks the SS1 and an 8.4 are the same motor.

Paul.

 

[jayt]

One of the major reasons for a fractious community are over-emotional posts which hurt other's feelings and stir up discord among readers who don't know anything about the subject except what they read in the emotional posts. This happened after the November SAWs concerning the SSH issue - it certainly didn't have to happen if everyone then had carefully check their facts first - and apparently it has happened again here. Facts were ignored - how can anyone call another boat a "splash" without even seeing it in person? Hull design is an evolution in this sport, and copying good ideas from other hulls and incorporating them in a "new" design is simply how it is done. If you want to learn about having your intellectual property stolen, talk to Darrien at Bandit Boats sometime...

Far better to wait until a few of the hulls are in racer's hands to compare with the Aussi cabover before crying foul.....IMO anyway. B)

 

[raptor347]

Don't worry about it guys, I was warned to expect this response.

I looked at the Aussie boat, watched Dick run his, watched Greg run one. It's a good boat. There are things about it that are done right. There are plenty of areas that could use improvement: The hatch fit, back of sponson shape and strength were obvious.

The real changes were drawn from 20 years of fabrication and design work: from world class pylon airplanes, military UAV's and race car ground effects.

Andrew,

I'm sorry you're offended by an addition to the market. When you see one of the new boats in person, you'll find it is very different from your model. As for stealing intellectual property, I have access to much more valuable information than a model design if I wanted to go the dishonest route.

For the guys who have them on order. I'm building as fast as I can. They should start showing up on door steps this week.

Next UP!!

Crum Grabber Molds B)

Brian Buaas

Raptor Aerosports

 

[drobie]

Jay nailed it...a very emotional issue.

I can empathize with Andrew and feel badly, however....

I doubt if royalties are being paid to the big boat designer that the Cabover was modeled after or to the first guy to put steps on sponsons, or to the first to lay up a model in fibreglass.

If an old ideas couldn't in some way be borrowed and enhanced, we wouldn't have a Corvette or the Beatles or Rolling Stones or color TV or an infinite number of other products that were not completely "original".

 

[Andrewg]

Ray

thanks its gonna be fun

I will see you when i am over - we can have a tipple together

Paul

the SS1 has identical specs except the SS1 has 0.95mm wire the 8.4 has .8mm wire.

So the motors last four numbers are 9510 instead of 8010. Why in the world that wasnt said is beyond me, as no one gets them without a BIG order or can they?

Also I hope you are not saying you knew the details all along but withheld them? Or did you not know at all?

And thankyou for all the bickering over the old shovel it was very effective at promoting it.

So that argument is over: Paul 1 Andrew 0 pmsl

cant sit here all day gotta go work on my lil hydro

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Andrew,

Also I hope you are not saying you knew the details all along but withheld them? Or did you not know at all?

LOL.

Paul.

 

[Ray Fuller]

Raythanks its gonna be fun

I will see you when i am over - we can have a tipple together

Paul 

  the SS1 has identical specs except the SS1 has 0.95mm wire the 8.4 has .8mm wire. 

So the motors last four numbers are 9510 instead of  8010.  Why in the world that wasnt said is beyond me, as no one gets them without a BIG order or can they? 

Also I hope you are not saying you knew the details all along but withheld them? Or did you not know at all? 

And thankyou for all the bickering over the old shovel it was very effective at promoting it. 

Andrew,

So that argument is over: Paul  1    Andrew  0    pmsl

cant sit here all day gotta go work on my lil hydro

90796[/snapback]

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Andrew ,

As of now your boat is still the one to beat, Years ogo I said the little EL LOBO 2 would beat the Micro bullet and every one smiled. I said to myself hope its just as good but a little bit easy to drive and a little stronger. This time I only say I hope it is just as good easyer to drive and a litlle stronger, the rest will lay with the people who set it up and drive it. The Name of the boat says it all , I hope for one of those guys that allways come up short to be able to make there dreams come true and be the Dark horse in the winning spot. Ray

 

[Andrewg]

I dont know how you guys measure the boats in the northern hemisphere but the cabover is 24" when it leaves here.

The hatch fit I hate thats why i told you months ago i wanted to change it ditto the sponson rears.

In O sport it is a handfull? Holding the class record at the lowest its ever been suggests otherwise. The only thing it isnt designed for is SAW. And it holds one of those records too.

The bottom is weak? The boat is built as light as possible with a view to people putting in only the reo needed to make it stiff. If they havent been built as intended they will be weak. Glass or cf sheets have inherently poor stiffness. For good torsional stiffness with light weight a geometric structure is best.

As for the airtrap the Cabover started as a Maus prototype I was given, with Sam Maus' consent. The trap was redesigned to give more strut adjustment and angle of attack on the sponsons. The easiest way to do this was to cut and reshape the trap from immediatley behind the sponsons - that is why the break is there. This also created a trap similar to most Jones shovels of the late 50's -60's - but its only similar not the same. Thats where the shape came from and its part of the reason its limited in saw.

You made the tunnel a 1/4" deeper? You wanted to raise the cog by 33%??? It should run better in a straightline in rough water but in rough water turns it wont have an advantage. Whoever did the calcs might want to have another look at them.

There are other ways to get a better trap that creates a faster boat with a low cog and very high stability. However that can wait till the new hull comes out.

And it will be called the Redstone - that was the original name for the cabover but it got left behind somewhere.

 

[LOU]

Hey Andrew, What the suggested strut height and COG for the Cabover (LSH)

Thanks

 

[jayt]

Just received my new Dark Horse and I'm impressed. I know that there has been a lot of controversy about how similar this hull is to the Aussie Cabover, so I held them both together. Here are some of the differences:

* Afterplane 3/4" longer

* Sponson tunnel is 1/8" deeper

* Sponson deadrise significantly shallower

* Sponson bottoms 1/8"wider

* Radius of nose wider

* Back of sponsons squared off

* Tunnel 1/8" wider

* Hatch 6" shorter and 1/2" wider

* Non-trips in afterplane about 1" shorter

* Deck higher at transom

* Boat is heavier - and stronger

I'm sure there a few others. It is definately not a "splash" of the Aussie boat. Is it similar? Sure, so is the Maus and the Bandit for that matter. As was claimed by the designers, good points from the Aussie were used, others were changed. The differences in the sponson depth and deadrise alone make it a completely different hull IMO. Can't wait to rig it and run it. BTW, I paid full retail ($180) for mine.

All that said - I still love my Aussie shovel!

 

[drobie]

Just received my new Dark Horse and I'm impressed.

I'll second that. Beautiful craftsmanship. Some of the best glasswork I've seen.

I put myself on the waiting list for every FE suitable hull Brian produces.

Keep them coming, Brian.