New Lawless G-Drive
- Thread starter MarkScott
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rmprecision
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I'd like one of these
Where can i get one.
Have a 48"dpi copy for one of my next projects
Where can i get one.
Have a 48"dpi copy for one of my next projects
i asked craig c 2 oder me 1 as soon as they were ready just got 2 find a hull i think i might have 1 in mind
craig did u order me 1
laters dion
rmprecision
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Dion
I think a guy by the name of Jason V in melb could help u out.
I think a guy by the name of Jason V in melb could help u out.
theringwah2002
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watch this space..... Hey Carl, could do you do anything that could work with this gas setup?
Regards
Mark
Regards
Mark
MarkScott
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To get one of these, PM Fred, AKA - LAWLESSMAN..
I'm going to build a 47" WOF Solution to run one of these. Just need to get other projects completed first.
Ronald van Essen
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Wow Fred,
super job
Now this guy over her in the Netherlands will get some competition .(record 111 km/h, about 68 mp/h)
Take a look:
http://www.xtremercboats.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7714
And:
http://www.xtremercboats.com/phpBB/viewtop...er=asc&start=15
Regards Ronald.
super job
Now this guy over her in the Netherlands will get some competition .(record 111 km/h, about 68 mp/h)
Take a look:
http://www.xtremercboats.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7714
And:
http://www.xtremercboats.com/phpBB/viewtop...er=asc&start=15
Regards Ronald.
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RIGGERMORTISE
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- Jan 30, 2003
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- 880
Fred has worked hard and long on this little (BIG) jem and it will be awesome when mine arives!
But dont forget to accesorise you boats with other goodies!
Fred i will need a coupling too.
Dion
if they are refering to jason v from goolwa sa then he has not got the mould anymore I have it!
JASSP racing has a secret weapon!
It is worth a visit to see the tunnel that powerpete has listed on jims! inspirational video. wouldnt it be cool to see a gas outboard tunny flying past a rigger!!! lol
While we are on big tunnys, steering servos? whatch gunna use.
I was looking at having two jumbo servos with servo saver on each one. one pushrod on each servo
Big tunnys are comming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey rcimpressions is the dpi tunny stepped on the sponsons??
Dave
But dont forget to accesorise you boats with other goodies!
Fred i will need a coupling too.
Dion
if they are refering to jason v from goolwa sa then he has not got the mould anymore I have it!
JASSP racing has a secret weapon!
It is worth a visit to see the tunnel that powerpete has listed on jims! inspirational video. wouldnt it be cool to see a gas outboard tunny flying past a rigger!!! lol
While we are on big tunnys, steering servos? whatch gunna use.
I was looking at having two jumbo servos with servo saver on each one. one pushrod on each servo
Big tunnys are comming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey rcimpressions is the dpi tunny stepped on the sponsons??
Dave
VansRacing
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- Jan 15, 2005
- Messages
- 635
Fred, that lower in Ripping!
We are pumped to get our 1/4 scale ready. By the end of this year, we will have ours finished.
Looking forward to racing these tunnels! Thanks to Fred, this can actually happen now.
-Carl,
We are pumped to get our 1/4 scale ready. By the end of this year, we will have ours finished.
Looking forward to racing these tunnels! Thanks to Fred, this can actually happen now.
-Carl,
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LawlessMan
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- Feb 9, 2005
- Messages
- 332
First off, a BIG "Thank You" to Mark for posting these for me. For some reason, I just haven't mastered the picture posting thing yet.
Now, about the drive. As you can see, this ain't no wimpy drive. The drive itself weighs about two pounds. I may be trying to trim that down a little bit (Is there a Trim-Spa for outboard drives?), but it's two pounds of solid aluminum billet for now.
> The drive line is 1/4" flexshaft, square on the upper end, attached to a 1/4" Aeromarine stub shaft, supported in a bored bearing made out of 954 bearing bronze and threaded into the drive, just like the other Lawless Drives and ""you know who". The design is SPECIFICALLY for the Hanson (B.H. Hanson) extended square-drive adapter, which I can supply if you already have the motor from somewhere else. I have been told that the QuickDraw motor would be an excellent option, in place of the Zenoah.
> It comes complete with the lightened, vertically adjustable transom mount and lightened bearing plate which will allow "about" 15 degrees total trim adjustment, (more up than down). If you need to get a different degree of adjustment, you can turn the bearing plate around 180 degrees and it changes the relationship. (You have to see it to understand fully). Both the pivot plate and the drive have bronze bushings, which are standard size, and replaceable. The pivot pin is hardened steel.
> The cavitation plate is .085 thick 6061-T6 sheet and the water pickups are .156 dia brass tube. There are two of them, so you can get plenty of cooling water to the head AND the manifold, and they are fairly far back from the prop. The cav plate sits high enough that you can swing a 3-1/4" prop, if you need to. The drive dog and a nylock nut are also included. (What might you use for a prop??? Recommendations?)
> I designed a special version of the "Bushwhacker" steering arm for this drive. It is 4-1/2" wide, with three holes at each end to allow spacing of 3.5", 4", and 4.25" between the control rods . It mounts directly to the top of the drive, instead of hanging off the motor, and it also is the retainer for the 1/4" pivot pin. You can take out one 6-32 cross-screw, loosen up the 6-32 screw that holds the pivot pin, push the pin down thru the mount and pop the motor and drive off without having to disturb your steering linkage. The ends of the arm are .100 thick, which allows for standard clevises, and I leave the holes small enough that you have plenty of options for attaching your rods or cables. For my own boat, I plan to use a pair of 10-32 threaded ball and socket (Heim) joints. Smaller, 4-40 or 6-32 ball joints could be used, or clevises, as I mentioned. For threaded items, you would have to adjust the holes. 4-40 threads- just run a tap thru, 6-32, drill out to .106 and tap, 10-32, drill out to .159 and tap. For the 10-32, due to the thin-ness of the arm, I plan to use a lock nut under the arm. (You may notice that there's not a lot of clearance under the arm in the picture, this is being "adjusted" as I write this.)
> I figure that there's about 25 degrees of "swing" allowed by the design of my Predator X. On other boats, you should be able to achieve up to 30 degrees, either way from center, depending on the hull limitations, which should be way more than you need. Most likely, servo travel will limit you to less. Speaking of servos, I am planning on using a pair of 180 oz-in servos for the steering on my boat, plus something a little lighter for the throttle. I would be interested to know what other people would use and how well it works.
> As for hulls, you can see that the Predator X seems to be suited to the task. The one I got in a boat race raffle (Thank You, Remy, for that donation!) came with very little reinforcement, just a couple 1/4" plywood spacers between the top and bottom halves of the hull, about halfway down both sides of the center opening. The reinforcing plate on the transom was 1/2" of plywood. I put down a "floor" of 1/4" birch plywood from the transom to beyond the front end of the cutout, and added a piece of 1/4" aluminum angle to beef up the transom. The angle has been milled out to lighten it, and drilled and tapped for 6) 6-32 screws to attach the mounting plate of the drive. I glued the aluminum plate to both the plywood floor and the transom. The angle is about 8" long on the "floor" leg and 5" long on the transom leg. My swivel mount is about 1/4" taller than the transom, and I had to sand a serious radius on the bottom edge to get it low enough to get the drive low enough. That's because of the seam between the top and bottom halves of the hull projecting out the way it does. I still haven't got anything done for the internal layout of fuel tank, servos, etc, but will post some pix when I do. If anyone is interested, I do have a couple pix of another Aeromarine Predator X that was built in England using the OLD style Lawless G-23 Drive. (I have dropped the "23" and now call this the "G-Drive for Zenoah ®" ). You can e-mail me if interested and maybe I'll burden Mark's e-mail with a couple of them to post.
> Carl VanHouten (Van's Racing) has been in contact with me about building a 1/4-scale hull around this drive, to follow up on the hull he is currently testing which is designed around the smaller Lawless Drive. I will be working with him as he develops his new design.
> Another fellow, from South Africa, is also building at least two styles of hulls to leverage this drive-and- Zenoah combination. I expect to have a few pictures of his boats fairly soon. JoTiKa in England is selling Predator "replicas" that they make under license from Aeromarine, and HobbyCom, in Norway has also expressed an interest in the new drive, having purchased several of the old style when they were in production. I have also had interest from Australia, Germany, and the Czech Republic, to mention a few.
> I will have prototypes going out very soon, for some "real world" testing, and as soon as I'm reasonably sure that there are no major problems, I will begin making them for sale. I expect the price will be in the neighborhood of $325-$340. I still have to do some number crunching to set that. I will take names and deposits from anyone who wants to be on the list to get one of the first batch of production units, which I hope to have available in about 2 months, or sooner. (Depends on how quick I get feedback from the testers). The first batch will be limited to a run of about 12 units, so if you want one of them, you'll have to reserve one, first come, first served. Send your name and address and a check for $50 (which I will cash!) to reserve your unit. I will post a note when (or if) I get 12 reservations. The reservation fee will be applied to the purchase price. If you want to use a credit card, I accept M/C and VISA. Reservations are non-refundable if you cancel your order. Mailing address: R Mfg. Co, 570 DuBois Road, Owego, NY 13827
> Several people have asked about pipes for this. The boats that were built in England used the standard "Homelite" style muffler. Dave Hatcliffe of Saulsbury Pipes in Australia is working on a carbon fiber tuned pipe designed especially for this drive/motor combo, and the fellow in South Africa is also perfecting a welded steel pipe. In addition, Bruce Hanson (B.H.Hanson) has assured me that he can fit a pipe to the unit, so you have several options. It looks like I may have to do some minor "surgery" on the cowl of my Predator to clearance for a pipe.
> If anyone has questions and would like to discuss them with me directly, call 607-687-0143, between 9:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. Eastern Standard time, or e-mail me directly at [email protected], anytime.
> Thanks for the interest. Anybody have an opinion just where these Gas Outboards would (should) be classified for racing purposes? One of the established classes, or a new class of their own, perhaps?
Fred
Now, about the drive. As you can see, this ain't no wimpy drive. The drive itself weighs about two pounds. I may be trying to trim that down a little bit (Is there a Trim-Spa for outboard drives?), but it's two pounds of solid aluminum billet for now.
> The drive line is 1/4" flexshaft, square on the upper end, attached to a 1/4" Aeromarine stub shaft, supported in a bored bearing made out of 954 bearing bronze and threaded into the drive, just like the other Lawless Drives and ""you know who". The design is SPECIFICALLY for the Hanson (B.H. Hanson) extended square-drive adapter, which I can supply if you already have the motor from somewhere else. I have been told that the QuickDraw motor would be an excellent option, in place of the Zenoah.
> It comes complete with the lightened, vertically adjustable transom mount and lightened bearing plate which will allow "about" 15 degrees total trim adjustment, (more up than down). If you need to get a different degree of adjustment, you can turn the bearing plate around 180 degrees and it changes the relationship. (You have to see it to understand fully). Both the pivot plate and the drive have bronze bushings, which are standard size, and replaceable. The pivot pin is hardened steel.
> The cavitation plate is .085 thick 6061-T6 sheet and the water pickups are .156 dia brass tube. There are two of them, so you can get plenty of cooling water to the head AND the manifold, and they are fairly far back from the prop. The cav plate sits high enough that you can swing a 3-1/4" prop, if you need to. The drive dog and a nylock nut are also included. (What might you use for a prop??? Recommendations?)
> I designed a special version of the "Bushwhacker" steering arm for this drive. It is 4-1/2" wide, with three holes at each end to allow spacing of 3.5", 4", and 4.25" between the control rods . It mounts directly to the top of the drive, instead of hanging off the motor, and it also is the retainer for the 1/4" pivot pin. You can take out one 6-32 cross-screw, loosen up the 6-32 screw that holds the pivot pin, push the pin down thru the mount and pop the motor and drive off without having to disturb your steering linkage. The ends of the arm are .100 thick, which allows for standard clevises, and I leave the holes small enough that you have plenty of options for attaching your rods or cables. For my own boat, I plan to use a pair of 10-32 threaded ball and socket (Heim) joints. Smaller, 4-40 or 6-32 ball joints could be used, or clevises, as I mentioned. For threaded items, you would have to adjust the holes. 4-40 threads- just run a tap thru, 6-32, drill out to .106 and tap, 10-32, drill out to .159 and tap. For the 10-32, due to the thin-ness of the arm, I plan to use a lock nut under the arm. (You may notice that there's not a lot of clearance under the arm in the picture, this is being "adjusted" as I write this.)
> I figure that there's about 25 degrees of "swing" allowed by the design of my Predator X. On other boats, you should be able to achieve up to 30 degrees, either way from center, depending on the hull limitations, which should be way more than you need. Most likely, servo travel will limit you to less. Speaking of servos, I am planning on using a pair of 180 oz-in servos for the steering on my boat, plus something a little lighter for the throttle. I would be interested to know what other people would use and how well it works.
> As for hulls, you can see that the Predator X seems to be suited to the task. The one I got in a boat race raffle (Thank You, Remy, for that donation!) came with very little reinforcement, just a couple 1/4" plywood spacers between the top and bottom halves of the hull, about halfway down both sides of the center opening. The reinforcing plate on the transom was 1/2" of plywood. I put down a "floor" of 1/4" birch plywood from the transom to beyond the front end of the cutout, and added a piece of 1/4" aluminum angle to beef up the transom. The angle has been milled out to lighten it, and drilled and tapped for 6) 6-32 screws to attach the mounting plate of the drive. I glued the aluminum plate to both the plywood floor and the transom. The angle is about 8" long on the "floor" leg and 5" long on the transom leg. My swivel mount is about 1/4" taller than the transom, and I had to sand a serious radius on the bottom edge to get it low enough to get the drive low enough. That's because of the seam between the top and bottom halves of the hull projecting out the way it does. I still haven't got anything done for the internal layout of fuel tank, servos, etc, but will post some pix when I do. If anyone is interested, I do have a couple pix of another Aeromarine Predator X that was built in England using the OLD style Lawless G-23 Drive. (I have dropped the "23" and now call this the "G-Drive for Zenoah ®" ). You can e-mail me if interested and maybe I'll burden Mark's e-mail with a couple of them to post.
> Carl VanHouten (Van's Racing) has been in contact with me about building a 1/4-scale hull around this drive, to follow up on the hull he is currently testing which is designed around the smaller Lawless Drive. I will be working with him as he develops his new design.
> Another fellow, from South Africa, is also building at least two styles of hulls to leverage this drive-and- Zenoah combination. I expect to have a few pictures of his boats fairly soon. JoTiKa in England is selling Predator "replicas" that they make under license from Aeromarine, and HobbyCom, in Norway has also expressed an interest in the new drive, having purchased several of the old style when they were in production. I have also had interest from Australia, Germany, and the Czech Republic, to mention a few.
> I will have prototypes going out very soon, for some "real world" testing, and as soon as I'm reasonably sure that there are no major problems, I will begin making them for sale. I expect the price will be in the neighborhood of $325-$340. I still have to do some number crunching to set that. I will take names and deposits from anyone who wants to be on the list to get one of the first batch of production units, which I hope to have available in about 2 months, or sooner. (Depends on how quick I get feedback from the testers). The first batch will be limited to a run of about 12 units, so if you want one of them, you'll have to reserve one, first come, first served. Send your name and address and a check for $50 (which I will cash!) to reserve your unit. I will post a note when (or if) I get 12 reservations. The reservation fee will be applied to the purchase price. If you want to use a credit card, I accept M/C and VISA. Reservations are non-refundable if you cancel your order. Mailing address: R Mfg. Co, 570 DuBois Road, Owego, NY 13827
> Several people have asked about pipes for this. The boats that were built in England used the standard "Homelite" style muffler. Dave Hatcliffe of Saulsbury Pipes in Australia is working on a carbon fiber tuned pipe designed especially for this drive/motor combo, and the fellow in South Africa is also perfecting a welded steel pipe. In addition, Bruce Hanson (B.H.Hanson) has assured me that he can fit a pipe to the unit, so you have several options. It looks like I may have to do some minor "surgery" on the cowl of my Predator to clearance for a pipe.
> If anyone has questions and would like to discuss them with me directly, call 607-687-0143, between 9:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. Eastern Standard time, or e-mail me directly at [email protected], anytime.
> Thanks for the interest. Anybody have an opinion just where these Gas Outboards would (should) be classified for racing purposes? One of the established classes, or a new class of their own, perhaps?
Fred
LawlessMan
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- Feb 9, 2005
- Messages
- 332
Nice pix. High resolution, took forever to download at 28.8 dial-up. Anyway, do you have any idea what size prop that boat has?
Fred
MarkScott
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Fred, I was honored you sent me those pics. It is always my pleasure to assist you in posting pics. That lower is just too sweet.. Can't wait to put my grubby hands on one. I'll be calling you shortly to put a reserve on a unit..
XtremeRcBoats
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- Jan 31, 2002
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Fred, on the 68 mph run he used a propshop 7016/2
Ronald van Essen
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- Nov 8, 2004
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Fred,
Indeed its a 7016 but a little work done to it.
Ronald
Indeed its a 7016 but a little work done to it.
Ronald
talonxracer
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- Sep 10, 2005
- Messages
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I have had the supreme honor of seeing these develop in Freds shop on several visits and I have to say there is alot of thought and beauty in these outdrives!!! Thnx Fred!!!
Doug
Doug
Tim_Duggan
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- Feb 21, 2005
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Hey Fred,
That thing looks COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! Awesome work!
What does the unit weigh with the Zen on top?
I can't wait to see a 1/4 scale Lynx either B)
Tim.
That thing looks COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! Awesome work!
What does the unit weigh with the Zen on top?
I can't wait to see a 1/4 scale Lynx either B)
Tim.
LawlessMan
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- Feb 9, 2005
- Messages
- 332
Pulsetech--- that picture and the one that appeared in last season's catalog are both of the OLD style Lawless Drive on the Predator. Cool, but not quite as cool as the new style. And wait till you see the SPP carbon fiber pipe Dave is making up. It is WAAAYYYY cool!
Tim, I just weighed the unit, and I make it to be about 5 pounds, 4 ounces, less the prop and pipe, which I don't have yet.
Two reservations so far, and counting.
Fred
Tim, I just weighed the unit, and I make it to be about 5 pounds, 4 ounces, less the prop and pipe, which I don't have yet.
Two reservations so far, and counting.
Fred
A
aamick1971
Guest
fred,
just awsome man wow!!! what a unit!!! i have been wait to see something like this to pop up cant wait to see one up close. now maybe carl will put the warhead in production that would make a great boat setup with the right motor on it.
allen
just awsome man wow!!! what a unit!!! i have been wait to see something like this to pop up cant wait to see one up close. now maybe carl will put the warhead in production that would make a great boat setup with the right motor on it.
allen
RIGGERMORTISE
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- Jan 30, 2003
- Messages
- 880
No pipe pics yet, the header is still under construction, Also i have been working from a sheetmetal template of the lawless lower so it wont look very prety. I might have to wait on the pics untill its bolted to a lawless thats shiny!!
Pipe weight is............4.2 oz..about 110 grams and the header well somewhere around1.7 oz 48 grams, all up 5.9 0z or 165 gr
as for ordering a pipe there is only going to be three made untill all testing is complete and the fourth one is off to the netherlands but will probably have a diferent header. the headers are very diferent and water cooled!
Anybody know if the QD zenoah has the same exhaust port size and bolt patern as the g230 260 engines??
dave
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