NAMBA PropWash for March 2008

[brooks93]

I have only voted on FE rules.

I have never voted for any gas or nitro rules because they do not effect me as I do not race either.

maybe I haven't been around long enough (6 years) but, when was the last rule that was about NAMBA and wasn't tied to nitro or gas?

not being a smart a$$ I really don't recall one.

 

[Andy Greene]

I have only voted on FE rules.
I have never voted for any gas or nitro rules because they do not effect me as I do not race either.

maybe I haven't been around long enough (6 years) but, when was the last rule that was about NAMBA and wasn't tied to nitro or gas?

not being a smart a$$ I really don't recall one.

Too bad, as a Namba member, I feel its important to vote on ALL the rules regardless if you run the class/classes/power or not - IF - its for the betterment and safety of our hobby/sport/whatever, then ALL members should voice his/ hers opinions and vote. Just my .02

 

[brooks93]

You have ran or are running all so I could see your stance. I just choose to vote on rules that effect me and my part of the hobby.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Voting from an uninformed or poorly informed position is far, far worse than not voting at all.

 

[TRUCKPULL]

To much change to fast is not healthy for any sport. I oppose the hull restrictions because I can't see racing grossly overpowered small hulls. Number one, it's a safety issue IMO, number two it makes hulls obsolete built just last year that were legal. Before someone jumps on me and says I have not tried it, I have run overpowered small hulls before. right after the LiPo proposal passed, that's all I had to run and the result was, I lost one hull to the bottom of Kaiser Cove.
Joerg warned about running 2p LiPo's, the man that has gone faster then any other model boater in history. I warned about 2p LiPo's as did many other F/E racers, many that have now left the sport. Doubling the mah allowed doubling the amp draw and in effect doubling the power. It was a bad choice then for F/E and now the same people are trying to put a bandaid on it to fix the power problem. the same people that support the Hull restrictions are the same people that never gave the F/E racer a choice to run LiPo's unparalleled, it was 2 packs paralleled or unlimited paralleling or you had to vote no for LiPo, those were the choices on the proposal. They accused myself and Joerg and many other F/E racers of fantasy setup's and now they are saying that without hull restrictions people will be running 1527's in 36" N2 mono's???

Is there a silent group out there? Yes, you bet there is, just look at this thread, it's the same dozen people will line up and take pot shots at anyone that opposes their view of F/E's future, just go back and read this thread, or search another thread, it's the rhetoric and ridicule over and over. They beat the dog until the dog leaves and then they give the dogs point of view.

The fact is they were wrong that racers would not use the extra mah allowed by paralleling their LiPo's to increase their amp draw and now they are wrong about making hull length restrictions to tame the power available. Can any racer, nitro, gas or electric honestly tell me that if they could have more power, they would choose not to use it because their hull couldn't handle it?

Dan

2P, 3P, 4P lipo's has nothing to do with it.

I run 2P because I use 20C cells.

30C cells are now out, and 40 or 50C cells just around the corner.

If the rule was only 1P, you would be buying new cells every time higher C count cells came out just to keep up.

Lipo's were to help keep cost down, because they will last about 4 years.

NOT to buy new ones ever time NEW ones came out with more power.

That is what we had with sub "C" cells.

You keep quoting some one that does not race oval in North America or even have Lipo rules in his own country.

Length limits keep the cost down, A person can race on a budget and be competitive with boats of the same length. You can not compete in race water against a boat that is 12" longer then yours that runs the same speed, the hole in the water that he leaves is too big for you to race in.

So we should all build the 36" N2 mono's ($1500.00 each) 1P 40C cells to race, Only untill someone shows up with the 50" boat that cost $4,000.00 that runs the same speed.

Back to P limits - what about the guy that is running A123 cells, he needs 3P to get 30C

We have a guy in our club that came from small planes, he runs 4P 2000 cells.

Are you going to tell these guys that they have to buy new cells to race??

Length Limits work - we have been running them for 2 years now at differant clubs and races around the country.

We had NO problem with MAX Lenght in our rules before, so why now???

Larry

 

[Andy Greene]

Voting from an uninformed or poorly informed position is far, far worse than not voting at all.

Kevin, the question for Kelly wasn't based on un-informed/poorly informed positions- but I agree. Making sure your up to speed on what your voting for is very important .......

 

[T.S.Davis]

Sorry Dan, your going to get my 2 cents worth every time an issue pops up in FE. You bet, when I see a concerted effort to thwart what I think (no I don't know it, that's why we vote)........what I "think" the majority of FE wants then I'm going to speak up. When multiple articles show up in the organizations news letter that are maybe not quite accurate I have to speak up.

I don't get it. How is us hoping FE can decide it's own fate a slap in the face to nitro? If 80% of the FE racers voted for it and 2% of the nitro guys voted against it then it would fail. I'm not saying that will happen but if it did then who would be getting slapped.

As for Joerg, we get get it. He's fast. His accomplishments are unmatched and absolutely deserve our respect. I'm not trying to discredit him but he's never run a single sprint race on US water. That's not a personal attack. Not even a criticism. It's just a reality. That proposal had input from 2 national FE high points champions. Are those guys Joergs equal?

My fear is that the diatribe from D1 will actually have an impact. I mean the implication that we threatened a retaliation vote against other proposals is ludacris. I asked some to consider how they'd feel if FE determined their fate. I was looking for some empathy. There's about 120 of us. A threat? Hardly a force of nature. The email campaign that was going around speaks for itself.

This is pointless. I'd love for FE to choose it's fate but if it can't I hope that those outside the FE community will look at the thinking from both camps and vote accordingly. That's all we can ask for.

 

[Al Waters]

I am going to go out on a limb here and speak up. I am really disappointed in some of you. You would like to communicate to the membership to vote for or against, or to not vote at all for these proposals depending on what types of boats they run. Yet, your idea of convincing the membership is by doing it out here with a handful of people who follow this thread.

What happened to conveying to the membership through the Propwash how good the past FE Nats have been and what improvements could be made to make FE racing better. Who out here has written anything at all for the Propwash about FE model boating to convey to the other 1400 NAMBA members what would be best for FE model boating. I will tell you. The same people you are criticizing about writing articles on the Pros and Cons of the proposals. They are the ones who have promoted FE in the past because the FE boaters in general have not promoted themselves to the membership.

Most of you sit back on your keyboard thinking you have it all figured out. Maybe you do. But what good is that if you cant communicate to the membership.

Think about what the rest of the NAMBA membership sees. Two years a go, 12 new pages added to the FE rules. Last year the race to get Lipos in. This year there are more rules. And don't give me that technology advancement line. Then you haven't been reading all of the latest rules passed in your own rule book. Most of the membership wonders if you out here have it figured out because if you did, you wouldn't need so many rules. Now if you really do need these rules, how is the membership supposed to know.? Out here with the other dozen or so people reading

If the rules pass or fail, it will be because of the articles written by the people in the March Propwash. They have written many articles in the past and they have developed a following that people respect..............whether they are right or wrong............or whether you agree or disagree with them. They will play a major roll in the outcome. Blame them or give them credit depending on the outcome............. but you can definitely blame those of you who are NAMBA members and no one knows who you are.

I am still thinking on how I should vote. I have read the articles written in the Propwash. I have taken phone calls because many members ask my opinion or have conveyed to me their feelings about the proposals. But now, some of you make me wonder if I should be allowed to vote. I know that I have been to more FE NAMBA Nats than some of you. I know that I have won more Nats FE classes than some of you. But I don't race FE. Am I qualified?

Thanks for your time.............

Al Waters

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Guys,

I'll start out by saying I'm not a NAMBA member and haven't been for many years. Simply put NAMBA hasn't offered me anything in FE that would earn my support. I bring this up because in the Propwash IMPBA was brought up and I'm very active in the IMPBA. The two Orgs are going about the progression of FE in completely different ways. In 2004 I lobbied to allow FE boats to race in the open classes at the Internats and the BOD said bring it on. It was the start of lipos being run in FE powered boats. Lipos proved themselves in competition and at the end of 2005 a rule proposal to allow lipos in all classes for a TRIAL PERIOD of 1 year, that year being 2006. In comes 2007 and the rule proposal passes.

So, it took three years to get lipos in the books. Some say it was crammed down their throats, hardly the case. Same thing is happening again in the IMPBA with regard to length limits and heat racing rules. We're going on our year trial period running one mile heats with length restricted hulls but we didn't get to this point overnite. Last year clubs across the country tried racing under a draft proposal and found that the length limits and running a mile actually worked quite well. So the official proposal was put to the members and we'll follow those guidelines this year and vote on them next year. Again, this isn't being crammed down anyones throat and to the IMPBA members it comes as no surprise.

I think the problems I see coming up in NAMBA are stemming from the fact that their are quite a few crossover clubs/racers that have adopted a similar rule set to the IMPBA proposal. Why? Maybe because it works? I think the biggest contributing factor on why the IMPBA is having success on the FE side is there isn't an "old guard" to stifle the growth and try new ways of doing things. The FE racers are guiding their own destiny and building rule sets gained on their experience.

There's just so much more to this than simple length limits. It's been explained over and over and if you don't get it, haven't tried it or don't care to hear it than things will simply stay the same. Personally I want to see progression and once again all I see is bickering.

But now, some of you make me wonder if I should be allowed to vote. I know that I have been to more FE NAMBA Nats than some of you. I know that I have won more Nats FE classes than some of you. But I don't race FE. Am I qualified?

Al, I don't think anyone can say whether your qualified or not. That has to come from within, ask yourself if you know enough about building, managing and racing a competitive FE boat and you should be able to answer the question yourself. I know that for myself in the last 4 years I've been to 4 Internats and roughly 60 nitro and gas events that I've run FE boats. I've won numerous first place trophies running in the open classes against nitro and gas boats. I completely understand how a nitro or gas boat operates and could build a competitive boat. Unfortunately I have no where near the experience actually racing them to vote on any rule that would govern them.

Paul.

 

[Capt Ron]

i too am in the I.M.P.B.A. and have been since '2005 and i run fast electric boats in the SE...

for the sake of clarity, not all fe members in the I.M.P.B.A. support max. hull length restrictions...

we do infact have a one year trial period to test the proposed rule set Paul spoke of and to try other approaches as well if we choose before a vote is called for...

and until that vote is called for and members cast thier votes nothing is set in stone concerning future fe rules in the I.M.P.B.A.

Regards,

Ron Green

 

[T.S.Davis]

Am I qualified?

Al, absolutely your qualified. All NAMBA members are "qualified". We're all members. That makes us qualified. All I ask is that the members do exactly as you described. Read the pros and cons. Ask some FE racers that you trust if that's not enough for you to make up your mind. That was Kevins point. Voting for or against something your uninformed about is worse than not voting. I know you wouldn't. I won't vote on anything about which I am ignorant.

If I want to know about a gas proposal I'll ask gas guys. If I want to learn about a nitro proposal I'll ask nitro guys. The PW had Dougs piece on why these proposals exist and then two con articles from a ghost writer and a nitro guy. The nitro guys article conflicts with the desires of FE racers from the district he represents. That's why some are so rattled. I know I wont be writing any articles about Thunderboats any time soon. Why would anyone want to hear from me on that? They wouldn't.

On the emails campaign. Honestly, I can't imagine any member voting a particular way just because someone told them too. It's just human nature. People aren't that easy to operate.

Also Al, your right on about FE not communicating with the general membership. (This sounds familiar....) The forums get lots of traffic and are a great place to exchange ideas but it doesn't get to everyone. Not in either organization. Even if 10 people had written pro articles for the March PW they would have been written by people that the membership had never even heard of. Why should they trust some new name they don't even know? We simply have to do better in the future guys. If we want respect/trust we're going to have to put in more effort than we have. Period.

 

[brooks93]

The same people you are criticizing about writing articles on the Pros and Cons of the proposals. They are the ones who have promoted FE in the past because the FE boaters in general have not promoted themselves to the membership.

how do we know that? There where no names on that artical and the other was the directors own opinion and not that of his district. He is intitled to his own opinion but, not when he is speaking as the District Director.