IMPBA Outboard question

[VansRacing]

Sounds good to me JD but getting it done would spark off the 2nd civil war!Most tunnel racers around here call the classes 20 tunnel, 40 tunnel and 60 tunnel anyway.

Not sure why the ABC's are thrown in there.

Carl,

Carl,

The IMPBA adopted the letters from the old airplane free flight days. However unlike free flight there is no 1/4A or 1/2A in model boating… We just started off with A.

Also just for a quick clarification.. and this is important at least for now is that we call it Sport 21 Tunnel.. I have had guys confused by saying Sport 20 tunnel. They hear Sport 20 and sometimes not the tunnel.. Can you see the confusion.. Minor.. I agree.

Because i have followed this format for a long time (im a nut for the old aircraft stuff) IMPBAs system, as nutty as it seems, makes since to me. How NAMBA moved the displacements –vrs- numbers up a engine size is a mystery to me. Im sure someone knows more about this then me.

If it were up to me i would dump the old lettering system for a new easer to understand prospective for the new boater.

12 Tunnel

20 Tunnel

40 Tunnel

60-80 Tunnel, Hydro, Mono whatever... you get the point.

25 gas hydro.. whatever the gas dudes need is cool with me.

for FE it would be

8 cell hydro or maybe 10 volt Hydro..

12 cell hydro, mono, sport hydro and the like. I feel that in a few years.. maybe now.. brushed motors will be a thing of the past anyway.. so to heck with motor call out. Want a spec class.. have at it. call it LSH.. or O as they do now and leave as is..

GMC,

You are right there is no STOCK anything in the IMPBA.. just stock appearing..

Grim

Grim,

 

What are your thoughts concerning making the 40 & 60 sport tunnel a recognized IMPBA class at time trial events?

 

-Carl,

 

[Grimracer]

Sounds good to me JD but getting it done would spark off the 2nd civil war!Most tunnel racers around here call the classes 20 tunnel, 40 tunnel and 60 tunnel anyway.

Not sure why the ABC's are thrown in there.

Carl,

Carl,

The IMPBA adopted the letters from the old airplane free flight days. However unlike free flight there is no 1/4A or 1/2A in model boating… We just started off with A.

Also just for a quick clarification.. and this is important at least for now is that we call it Sport 21 Tunnel.. I have had guys confused by saying Sport 20 tunnel. They hear Sport 20 and sometimes not the tunnel.. Can you see the confusion.. Minor.. I agree.

Because i have followed this format for a long time (im a nut for the old aircraft stuff) IMPBAs system, as nutty as it seems, makes since to me. How NAMBA moved the displacements –vrs- numbers up a engine size is a mystery to me. Im sure someone knows more about this then me.

If it were up to me i would dump the old lettering system for a new easer to understand prospective for the new boater.

12 Tunnel

20 Tunnel

40 Tunnel

60-80 Tunnel, Hydro, Mono whatever... you get the point.

25 gas hydro.. whatever the gas dudes need is cool with me.

for FE it would be

8 cell hydro or maybe 10 volt Hydro..

12 cell hydro, mono, sport hydro and the like. I feel that in a few years.. maybe now.. brushed motors will be a thing of the past anyway.. so to heck with motor call out. Want a spec class.. have at it. call it LSH.. or O as they do now and leave as is..

GMC,

You are right there is no STOCK anything in the IMPBA.. just stock appearing..

Grim

Grim,

 

What are your thoughts concerning making the 40 & 60 sport tunnel a recognized IMPBA class at time trial events?

 

-Carl,

Hi Carl, Hope you are doing well..

My concern would be time.. not so much the time it takes to get the boats running and racing at Time Trial events but rather the time it might take to fit them into the heat racing venues. I feel that without inertest in both it might be best to wait until somebody champions the classes to make them grow ( nothing is stopping anybody from putting them on a race billing ) and putting them on there race billing is the best way i know how to get this done...

If for instance a class like 40 Sport Tunnel became as popular as the 21 Sport Tunnels have.. I would say that IMPBA would have to get there pens scratching paper.. the racers know what they want and its IMPBAs job to listen...

I hope im not coming off to bias.. As you know Im not much of a TT guy and its not my forte. I do however know the excitement a model boat event can bring so i do understand your question.

One thing is for sure.. adding more tunnel action to IMPBA is my GOAL...

ROCK ON

Mike.. Grimracer Z

 

[VansRacing]

Okay,

I feel like we should build this class back up. Mark Hopper, you and I both sell a O/B 40 tunnel, what can both of us do to help get this class back up? What are your suggestions?

Anybody else that is building a O/B 40 Sport tunnel write me at [email protected] This class is just as exciting as the 20 sport tunnel is. Let me or Mark hear something from you Sportracers out there.

-Carl,

 

[Grimracer]

Okay,

I feel like we should build this class back up. Mark Hopper, you and I both sell a O/B 40 tunnel, what can both of us do to help get this class back up? What are your suggestions?

Anybody else that is building a O/B 40 Sport tunnel write me at [email protected] This class is just as exciting as the 20 sport tunnel is. Let me or Mark hear something from you Sportracers out there.

-Carl,

RUN WITH IT DUDE....

LETS GO TUNNEL RACING

 

[GMCSW7]

Okay,

I feel like we should build this class back up. Mark Hopper, you and I both sell a O/B 40 tunnel, what can both of us do to help get this class back up? What are your suggestions?

Anybody else that is building a O/B 40 Sport tunnel write me at [email protected] This class is just as exciting as the 20 sport tunnel is. Let me or Mark hear something from you Sportracers out there.

-Carl,

RUN WITH IT DUDE....

LETS GO TUNNEL RACING

Grim/Carl,

With the thought of making a sport 40 tunnel class and with Sport 20 tunnel being a special class for a while now.

When is it sport 20 tunnel going to be a US1 event? It's as big or bigger than most US1 classes.

Talk about alot of racing and less than a week to get them done in. I am all for the tunnel racing but were does it fit in.

Then again I am thinking of the NATS and not club racing were still there can be alot of heats for a two day event.

Steve

 

[Grimracer]

Okay,

I feel like we should build this class back up. Mark Hopper, you and I both sell a O/B 40 tunnel, what can both of us do to help get this class back up? What are your suggestions?

Anybody else that is building a O/B 40 Sport tunnel write me at [email protected] This class is just as exciting as the 20 sport tunnel is. Let me or Mark hear something from you Sportracers out there.

-Carl,

RUN WITH IT DUDE....

LETS GO TUNNEL RACING

Grim/Carl,

With the thought of making a sport 40 tunnel class and with Sport 20 tunnel being a special class for a while now.

When is it sport 20 tunnel going to be a US1 event? It's as big or bigger than most US1 classes.

Talk about alot of racing and less than a week to get them done in. I am all for the tunnel racing but were does it fit in.

Then again I am thinking of the NATS and not club racing were still there can be alot of heats for a two day event.

Steve

Steve,

Let me be bold so that all understand my view on this.

I hope Never....

To me ( Remember Im just one person in a group of many ) the class is more then fine the way it is and i see no reason to make it a US-1 class.. Its a very special class and because of this it should remain a specialty Class.

Think about it.. you can now time trial your sport tunnel and or you can race it at the Internats. To just add US-1 for the sake of.... hum.. what would it add to the class... Tunnel Racers?

Mike

 

[Geraghty]

Think about it.. you can now time trial your sport tunnel and or you can race it at the Internats. To just add US-1 for the sake of.... hum.. what would it add to the class... Tunnel Racers?

Mike

This should cause a sxxt storm.

What about this.................Maybe all US-1 classes should be determined only by the numbers.

As I recall the Sport .21 tunnel class was either #1 or #2 in the number of entries at the Internats last year.

By the number of people coming to the event with a Sport.21,maybe they deserve a shot at a US-1 title.

How 'bout this????Maybe the IMPBA should consider limiting the total number of classes that can run for the honor of US-1.

I am just picking a number just for arguments sake.Lets just say a total of 10 classes can run for the honor of being called US-1.

Take the total number of entries for the internats event by class and list them in order by the number of entrants from the "most" to the "least". Just count down 10 and cut it off,no matter what the classes are.They will be the 10 classes to run for US-1. If Sport .21 tunnel is the most and .90 mono is the least,that is just the way the cookie crumbles.

The classes that don't meet the 10 class cut-off will run heat racing only.

This would do nothing to the schedule and would definitely encourage participants to promote their favorite classes to encourage more participation at the internats.

[Anyone looking at trying for the Excellence in performance would sure take a different look at the classes they would enter.;0]

As to the Sport .45 tunnel class.....Just start running them in your district and get a large number of boats running.That is what put the Sport.21 tunnel class in effect.

As to a set of rules you already have them.Just come up with a new set of numbers for the carb and exhaust dimensions.[that should take about 30 minutes of intense research:0]Everything else could remain exactly the same.

The host club for the Internats should have the final call to set the minimum number of boats to validate a class for participation.They are doing all the work.

 

[VansRacing]

The perfect Sxxt Storm cont.:

I would like to see our 40 Sport Tunnel (ST) back to where they were 8 or 10 years ago (in numbers). When Tommy Lee was pumping out the Lee Craft tunnels, there were plently of 40 sport tunnels at almost every race you went to in the Southeast. Even if we don't get the class recognized for a US-1 award, I would like to see the 40 ST class promoted because I believe that it could be every bit as large as our current 20 ST class is today or maybe even larger.

Manufactures could offer an incentive of some kind that may encourage people to get their 40ST boats out and run them or build new ones? Say... $50.00 off the cost of a new 40 tunnel to the winner of the 40 sport tunnel event and $50.00 to the host club that offers the class may help to start it off. ??? What do you think?

I was just hoping to stir more interest because I remember how big this class once was and could be again given the right attention.

What are your thoughts?

-Carl,

 

[Brian Schymik]

The perfect Sxxt Storm cont.:

I would like to see our 40 Sport Tunnel (ST) back to where they were 8 or 10 years ago (in numbers). When Tommy Lee was pumping out the Lee Craft tunnels, there were plently of 40 sport tunnels at almost every race you went to in the Southeast. Even if we don't get the class recognized for a US-1 award, I would like to see the 40 ST class promoted because I believe that it could be every bit as large as our current 20 ST class is today or maybe even larger.

Manufactures could offer an incentive of some kind that may encourage people to get their 40ST boats out and run them or build new ones? Say... $50.00 off the cost of a new 40 tunnel to the winner of the 40 sport tunnel event and $50.00 to the host club that offers the class may help to start it off. ??? What do you think?

I was just hoping to stir more interest because I remember how big this class once was and could be again given the right attention.

What are your thoughts?

-Carl,

My thoughts are this.... you cannot do it with just one engine maker!

20 sport tunnel took off when there was more than one engine. Thunder tiger, multiple K&B versions and now O.S.

40 stock tunnel only has K&B. The guys running 40 mod tunnel have many more choices.

We used to run stock and mod 40 tunnel here many years ago, but when 40 engines became hard to get it died. 40 mod is just now having a resurgence.

My 2 cents.

Brian

 

[VansRacing]

Brian,

You are right, the engines did become hard to get but they are available again. I agree with you in wanting to see more choices for the sport class engines but having one engine to race will actually make the playing field more even.

I hope to see a O/S 40 outboard engine one day. I will have the first one in Alabama that is for sure! I may be beating a dead horse here but we had a lot of fun with the O/B 40 sport tunnel class.

I will make it worth while to compete in the next O/B 40 ST class at the 2006 S.C. Shootout.

 

[legendscar24]

Man I started a firestorm here, when I was racing out west (NAMBA) there was a 20 tunnel and a 40 tunnel stock class, the 40 class was the biggest in the district, the 20 class was kind of a beginners class, and the 40 was what the 20 guys worked up to, that or other classes. Being one og the 40 guys I wanted to go faster with the tunnel but we had no mod class so we had to race with the 40 size hydros, we got spanked but people got tired of seeing us in the way and decided to let us have a 40-mod tunnel class, turned out to be the second largest class in the district. K&B did have it problems but things seem to have turned around with the 40 Rossi engine and Nelson, plus K&B is making 40s again sooo. Even though I'm not a IMPBA member yet I believe it would be a great class because of ease (easier than most I mean)of setup for the beginner, pretty much anyone can put a tunnel together and once the see the speed from others in the class they get hooked, thats what happened in Disrtict 9 seems like it could happen anywhere.

Mike

 

[Geraghty]

My thoughts are this.... you cannot do it with just one engine maker!

20 sport tunnel took off when there was more than one engine. Thunder tiger, multiple K&B versions and now O.S.

40 stock tunnel only has K&B. The guys running 40 mod tunnel have many more choices.

We used to run stock and mod 40 tunnel here many years ago, but when 40 engines became hard to get it died. 40 mod is just now having a resurgence.

My 2 cents.

Brian

The number of engine manufacturers had absolutely nothing to do with the success of the Sport .21 class in IMPBA.

NAMBA for years[since 1975],ran only one manufacturer [K&B]and the 3.5 and 7.5 stock tunnel classes have year after year always been the largest classes at the NAMBA nationals.Thunder Tiger and O.S. outboards didn't even show up until the late '90S.

It was the rules package that was adopted by the IMPBA that made all the old K&B 3.5 watercooled motors competitive with the newer 3.5SS motors that were not available.Basically what IMPBA did was brought parity to the Sport .21 class by making the older motors competitive.

The second big plus with the Sport .21 rules package was the elimination of the NAMBA teardown requirement.

There are still a million old K&B 7.5's [8702's]out there that can be had for under $100.00.

There are still a ton of boats available for the Sport 7.5 tunnel class.

Give me the same set of rules the Sport 3.5's have and I will build you a motor that will run with a 7.5 pro for less than 1/2 the cost.

 

[MarkScott]

At the races I plan on attending next year, hope there will be Sport 40 tunnels. Currently in the process of building two 34" WOF's for the 7.5 classes. Hope to put togehter a Sport 20 tunnel before next year also.

 

[htbboats]

I'm all for getting the Sport 40 Tunnel Class back up and going. I can remember several years back when it was doing well. That racing was just as much fun as the modified. As long as everyone is on a even keel it is not the speed that makes it fun!

To have a competive 40 mod motor these days you have to spend quite a few dollars. To get into a stock 40 motor would probally be a fourth of what I have tied up in what I'm running for a motor now. So less cost on a motor, probally fewer parts broken, less fuel used and so on should make this a win win situation for the sport!

I'd think we need to offer a class of these boats at a few races next year and see how it goes. I will see to it that at our races we will offer the class and I'll have one ready for it!

Mark Hopper

 

[VansRacing]

GREAT!

 

[SayMikey]

GREAT!

We offered it stock 40 tunnel for years an as the tunnel classes slowly died it was the first to go. Maybe now more will run it but it takes numbers to make it work.....Mikey

 

[Grimracer]

I would start with 3 boats make a class..

Set a intake bore limit.

Set an exhaust bore limit

Follow the IMPBA procedures for 21 Sport Tunnel for the first year.

Dont sound hard to me.. This needs to start at the club level and grow from there.. at least for the first year. After that and if IMPBA sees the growth i suspect its going to.. lets see what we can do about getting it written in the rule book. Sound fair?

One note: Form the get go lets call this class..

40 Sport Tunnel.. on that same note any objections to calling it. 40 OPC "Tunnel Hull".. might help with understanding in the future? I would like to get away from the word SPORT... to much confusion with the word STOCK.. its been a tricky last few years..

Thoughts?

Grim

 

[htbboats]

I think we need to keep the motors"out of the box stock". NO MODIFICATIONS. This will make it more competitave for everyone.

Mark Hopper

 

[Grimracer]

Mark,

I very much understand your question its just that I have NO CLUE HOW TO MONOTOR THIS..

To me the only thing that makes since is to have a go no go gauge system like the one we use now.

To me inspection of the motors (tear down) is NOT an option. Its time consuming and its a pain in the hinder. Been there done that when i was racing slot cars. I have seen the fist fights that can come from this and having a motor handed back to you in a plastic baggie is a real bummer... Especially if you spent a ton of time breaking the thing in.

Fuel and air in.. Gasses and un burnt fuel out.. the hole / s are the best regulators we have and it has proven to work in the 21 class.

In a perfect world you could say this but if you did not have hand out motors at the race the day of the race... its just not going to work...

Now if you wanted to try to regulate anything you might be able to do it with hulls (like NASCAR does with patterns).. But as you can see this could build into a LOT OF WORK.. Not for me.. not for most.. Could it be done with props? Almost everybody will say.. NO WAY..

Stock is ALWAYS a tough thing to regulate.. so.. lets not deal with that.. lets go... Go-no-go gauge racing.

Thoughts?

Grim

 

[piper_chuck]

I think we need to keep the motors"out of the box stock". NO MODIFICATIONS. This will make it more competitave for everyone.

Mark Hopper

YES, DEFINITELY! Many other sports manage to do just this. Unfortunately, those who don't want it appear to be more vocal than those who do. Some people insist that it's bad for the sport, hard to monitor, etc, etc, etc. I don't know if these are reasons or excuses. I created a poll this summer about Sport 20 and whether it should be stock or anything goes. The votes were 2 to 1 in favor of having the class be stock. Unfortunately, those voting for stock were mostly quiet, while those arguing for anything (that can't be seen) goes, were quite assertive, and at times insulting. It's sad that the people arguing for anything goes never stopped to ponder why so many more people wanted it to be stock. In the end, I just shut up because further discussion would have just created more hard feelings.

The details on how simple it is to inspect an engine were posted in that other thread. It's not that hard, if people want it to be done. If they don't want it done, they somehow turn it into this horrible task.

So, the question is what do people want? Are there enough people interested in a Stock 40 tunnel to make it work? If yes, are they willing to speak up and be heard, or will they just accept the rules that the more vocal and assertive people draft for them? Are they willing to initiate Stock 40 tunnel races in their clubs and begin drafting rules that will work? If yes, then we can have a true Stock class that keeps the playing field level and keeps costs down. If not, it'll just be another "anything that can't be seen goes" class like sport 20.

On a related note, there's a group in District 12 that are working on getting a stock class going for gas boats. They have recognized that it's really hard for a beginner, or someone with limited funds, to be competitive. It seems that as gas takes off, the $240 price of a G260 is skyrocketing due to people trying to out mod each other. Sound familiar? Last I heard this new class will have a claim rule. Someone who wanted to challenge an engine would pay a fee ($10 I think). If the engine proved to be stock, the owner gets the $10. If it was modified, the challenger gets the engine. This kind of rule would be a serious deterrant against running a modified engine.