IMPBA Legal or Not

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Nice boat Brian. I'd like to see it race Bob's new boat.

Brian,

I saw the 20 you built on your website, did you bolt the pipe bracket down to the floor?
 
Nice boat Brian. I'd like to see it race Bob's new boat.

Brian,

I saw the 20 you built on your website, did you bolt the pipe bracket down to the floor?
I will take pictures of the inside once everything is together. I have a brass tube going thru the transom which is supported about 3" forward. The pipe then couplers to the brass tube.

I can't wait to race this thing...can't wait to see bob's boat in action too.

Brian
 
This ought to throw you all for a loop. Watch for the FE Sport Hydro proposal in the upcoming NAMBA newsletter. It's a bit amiguous by design.

IMO, Sport by it's very nature is a grey area. It was born grey, lives grey and will die in the grey. We've attempted to write a rule that pays homage to the grey, but narrows it a bit relative to what nitro allows.

A sample: (We borrowed language from both organizations)

a. The intent of this class is to simulate the appearance of Unlimited and/or

Limited three-point, full-bodied hydroplanes as raced full scale.

b. A hull must conform to the three-point hydroplane configuration and resemble

a real limited or unlimited hydroplane from the past or present.

c. Boats which do not resemble real full-scale designs (i.e. outriggers, modified

outriggers, canards, tunnels or catamarans) will not be allowed to race as

Sport Hydroplanes.

There's that "intent" word again, but all it takes a dictionary definition of "simulate" and "resemble" to clarify and define the intent.

------------------------------------

sim·u·late: To have or take on the appearance, form, or sound of; imitate. To make in imitation of or as a substitute for.

------------------------------------

re·sem·ble: To exhibit similarity or likeness to

------------------------------------

Synonyms for "intent" include: purpose, goal, end, aim, object. So the intent of the class is to simulate and/or resemble a full-sized racing hydro.

I always thought the intent of Sport was to create a hydro class where you didn't have to spend the time on the detail required in Scale. IOW, Sport was to closer to Scale than it is to Hydroplane. Maybe I've misunderstood the class. I've only been at it 6 years.

As for innovation, there's still plenty of room in SH but I also thought that's what (unlimited) Hydroplane was all about.

We did something else in the proposal. We figure there are two broad perspectives in terms of model boaters. The modeler/artist and the more technical/analytical. (The line is not clearly defined and many of us have aspects of both styles.) The former buys into broad descriptions, the latter wants numbers and measurements.

The proposal has a separate paragraph that addresses each style. The "intent" is in the first paragraph. The idea is that if a CD sees a boat that raises a red flag, he pulls out the tape and goes to paragraph 2.

The proposal might be considered to be riddled with loopholes and exceptions. They are nod to our smaller numbers, limited hull choices and "run what ya brung" culture. We spec a transom width, but don't want to disqualify the guy who makes scale models of Lauterbach dropped sponson shovels with VERY narrow transoms.

One big catch-all exception is that the rule says if it's a scale model of a real boat that raced more than one season, it's legal in Sport.

We also have one rule for all of our Sport Hydro classes and no length restrictions. In FE, the majority agrees the water is the almighty equalizer.

No one can accuse this proposal of walking the line. It breaks with tradition. Some of us take our racing more seriously than others, but at the end of day, we are all just big men (and woman) playing with toy boats. (I should add a respectful nod to those that make a living supplying us with our toys).

We'll see what happens in the vote.
 
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So really what you are proposing is a smaller sized SCALE class, with relaxed rules for painting/finishing? Maybe you should call it 1/10 scale, or 1/12 scale, or FE scale.
 
So really what you are proposing is a smaller sized SCALE class, with relaxed rules for painting/finishing? Maybe you should call it 1/10 scale, or 1/12 scale, or FE scale.
What he is proposing is a clearer definition of SPORT hydro class. It's not scale so don't call it scale.
 
So really what you are proposing is a smaller sized SCALE class, with relaxed rules for painting/finishing? Maybe you should call it 1/10 scale, or 1/12 scale, or FE scale.
Where'd that come from?

I don't see any references to 1/10, 1/12, 1/8, or any scale measurement. Even the word "scale", is only used in the term full-scale to refer to full-sized hydros. :)
 
On a positive note, maybe your rule should read:

Boats which resemble real full-scale full-bodied designs will be allowed to race as

Sport Hydroplanes. Outriggers, modified

outriggers, canards, tunnels or catamarans will not be allowed to race as

Sport Hydroplanes.

instead of as written as:

Boats which do not resemble real full-scale designs (i.e. outriggers, modified

outriggers, canards, tunnels or catamarans) will not be allowed to race as

Sport Hydroplanes. (I read to say "If it looks like a full-sized design-it is legal, no matter whether they are outrigger, canard, tunnel, etc. If they are sort-ta scale they must not be rigger, canard, tunnel, etc.)

"One big catch-all exception is that the rule says if it's a scale model of a real boat that raced more than one season, it's legal in Sport." (Maybe now you can see why I called it FE Scale.)

So as written ------ if I have a canard that closely resembles a full-scale unlimited is it legal or not? I assume as written since it resembles a full-scale boat, it is legal ( I don't think this was your intention, but I am confused by the double negative in one sentence and the reversal of the stated rule in another.).

Maybe we need to define what a full-bodied full-scale three-point hydroplane boat is. Is the Winston lobster boat full-bodied? What about the new tri-wing boats. Are rear sponsons allowed? Tunnels are three point and full bodied, are they allowed. Can I put rear shoes on a shovel-nose? Maybe putting into words what Don Ferrette is thinking would eliminate a whole lot of problems later. Maybe we should do this for all sport classes now, before more disagreements come up. Why is it bad to be less gray with the rules. Wouldn't a few clearly worded sentences eliminate alot of confusion!

Rudy
 
Maybe we need to define what a full-bodied full-scale three-point hydroplane boat is. Is the Winston lobster boat full-bodied? What about the new tri-wing boats. Are rear sponsons allowed? Tunnels are three point and full bodied, are they allowed. Can I put rear shoes on a shovel-nose? Maybe putting into words what Don Ferrette is thinking would eliminate a whole lot of problems later. Maybe we should do this for all sport classes now, before more disagreements come up. Why is it bad to be less gray with the rules. Wouldn't a few clearly worded sentences eliminate alot of confusion!

Rudy
Understand that FE historically has had somewhat limited hull selection. And if we really want to grow the hobby by making it as accessible to as many modelers as possible, we have to be as inclusive as possible without gifting an unfair competitive advantage.

One vendor sells a Winston. We don't want to tell him he can't sell his hulls anymore. Quite a few guys have converted Proboat Bud hulls to electric, complete with it's feet and vents. An easy way to get started...with a off-the-shelf LHS sold hull. (Those are just a couple of samples.)

The exceptions (or double negative as you put it) are there primarily to Ok these types of boats.

Another thing I should point out is that FE has a cronic case of growing pains. Technology changes rapidly and FE itself is pretty young. As we grow and mature and choices increase and vendors and builders learn what is expected in an FE Sport hydro, then the rule can be tightened.

For now, the "double negative" is there first and foremost to allow existing hull owners to continue running what they have.

It all get's down to this. After polls, surveys and tons of phone calls and emails to as many NAMBA FE racers as possible, it is clear that the vast majority want the divider in this graphic slid closer to the Scale end of the spectrum.

Sport%20graph.gif
 
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Drobie, can you explain the term "FE" for those of us not familar with it.

Thanks, Bob Tuttle
 
so it is electric open hydro, but must sorta look like a real boat. Wish you wouldn't call it sport for the same reason Don don't want it called scale. Having enough trouble keeping nitro sport-- well --sport.
 
Drobie, can you explain the term "FE" for those of us not familar with it.

Thanks, Bob Tuttle
I'm sorry...FE = Fast Electrics.

so it is electric open hydro, but must sorta look like a real boat.
With all due respect, I'm not sure how you jumped to that from what I wrote and the graphic I posted.

Try "very relaxed Scale" on for size.

As I said, most FE racers want Sport closer to Scale than to Hydroplane.
 
Hey Don... If this is a modified rigger... What rigger did I modify? Can you name that rigger??? Maybe you should stick to fishing! ;)
 
Hey Don... If this is a modified rigger... What rigger did I modify? Can you name that rigger??? Maybe you should stick to fishing! ;)
Gee, is someone's panties still in a wad?? I'm going to give your post the attention it deserves at this point since, at least in IMPBA, this gotten aswered by a couple people. Your in NAMBA so why worry? This thread's been dead for a month............ :rolleyes:
 
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HA Now thats what we are looking for Glenn whats the history on that one?
The sport 20 class will survive in Namba I bet that boat isnt going to kill off all the other designs
Alfred Lanza has a new IMPBA legal Sport 21 that's going to smoke everybody (according to Alfred) Maybe some of the SoCal guys can comment who seen it last weekend.

Alfred smoked me in Camarillo. Very fast boat. Got me re-thinking everything. I have an SS21 that's decent - won quite a few races with it. Still, Alfred's boat made it look slow.

By the way... I thought Bob's OLD boats ware pretty darn good.

Jay
 
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