IMPBA Internats 2007

[AWaddle322]

Don common now..

The gun doesn't lie.. It was what it was.. period..

And no offense to rod. That is just what it was.

chris

Chris,

Remember you started this........ .......the magic words are "cosine or angle error".

Unless a radar gun is applied,by its operator,100% perfectly,the information coming out of it is absolute junk and all the radar gun can do is "lie"!

I also saw the radar gun out at the Nats during open water and the way it was being used was a complete waste of battery power and I guarantee you the gun was lying like a politician caught in a brothel.

Zaker,David Preusse and I were all watching Bobby Himels boat run with that pipe and we were all guessing his boat was running every bit of 80 and probably faster and it was whisper quiet.In fact the first words out of Davids mouth were....quote," I want one of those pipes"un-quote.Bobbys "F" boat might be a lot of things but it is was anything but a turd.

go to........ www.stalkerradar.com/pdf/sport_manual.pdf ......and read page 11.

For any of you that are interested in knowing how radar works,read this instruction manual,especially page 11 and the next time you see someone standing on the the beach on the front straightaway panning boat speeds as the boat goes by,you will understand what awaste of time this is.

Just taking the speed while turning into a corner is also pretty much worthless.The gun has the ability to acquire,average and display but the boats speed and angle isn't constant long enough to get an accurate reading.

If you want an accurate boat speed reading from a radar gun,the boat has to be going dead straight away from you or be coming dead straight at you with absolutely no traversing angle.

Rod Geraghty

Note:This is what makes GPS readings so accurate.The GPS usually is tracking off 4-5 satellites and all the triangulation and math is being done off these 4-5 satellites and the cosine error is being removed in the GPS.

Geraghty,

The goverment owns the satelights that we use for gps and they apply a 2 percent factor in actual location in all civilian models. If you take a garmin e tracks and when you turn it on it will tell you its accuracy in feet (most loations 42'). If you are comparing at the same sight under the same cloud conditions the gps will most lickley tell you wetther this change made you faster or slower but it would be useless information if the accuracy changed just a couple of feet. They have came out with a system called gps wass and it is supposed to be alot more accurate but they are expensive and most would not be suitable in this application because of there size.

Allen

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Despite all of the differences one one rule remains the same. He who crosses the finish line first wins.

...With that said... for any of you that may be looking for a reason to visit sunny California this may be your opportunity.

2007 NAMBA Nationals.

We promise... we will make it worth your while.

Consider this a friendly invitation.

 

[Geraghty]

Geraghty,

The goverment owns the satelights that we use for gps and they apply a 2 percent factor in actual location in all civilian models. If you take a garmin e tracks and when you turn it on it will tell you its accuracy in feet (most loations 42'). If you are comparing at the same sight under the same cloud conditions the gps will most lickley tell you wetther this change made you faster or slower but it would be useless information if the accuracy changed just a couple of feet. They have came out with a system called gps wass and it is supposed to be alot more accurate but they are expensive and most would not be suitable in this application because of there size.

Allen

Waddle,

I did not say that well.......

Accurate was not the right word.Repeatability as to published accuracy would have been a better choice.

I wasn't trying to defend the accuracy of the radar gun as much as trying to point out the process of properly using a radar gun and how it compared to the GPS acquisition process.

All I was trying to point out is any time you stand on the front stretch and pan a boat going by with the radar gun,all that is going to appear on the readout screen is nothing but a bunch of road apples.

Unless the gun is used absolutely perfectly all it ever does is lie.

Geraghty

Note;Interesting you should bring up civilian satellite accuracies.I knew that Garmin always comes up with an accuracy number for you to use but I wonder if it is the satellite or the gear receiving the signal from the satellite that determines the accuracy or maybe a combination of both....I really don't know.

Two years ago David Hall drove a new Mercedes M440 up to Wisconsin to a boat race.He checked out this R&D "M" class out of the motorpool in Tuscalossa.This car was full of data acqusition computers and it also had an incredible navigation system on board.Everytime you started the car and the navigation system linked up with a bunch of satellites,a plus or minus one meter[39.6"] accuracy icon would pop up on its LCD screen.

 

[dr gary turner]

Gary, seeing how you are a doctor that works with hearing, do you have any suggestions for the dB rule? Maybe you know about how the surroundings affect dB levels.

I hate to see this thread turn into another pissing contest over the noise levels but should see if there will be a 2007 Internat's and who is willing to take on such a huge task with big shoulders and Kevlar armor.

What if a site was found that didn't require a noise limit or a more reasonable one then couldn't the rule be over-ridden? Anyone ever thought about that? It's not that I'm not for noise abatement but maybe a more reasonable way to get a group to host the meet.

For instance, anyone who's ever run at the Saginaw site knows that it's at a Conservation club pond and that there is a target range off turn one. The firearms are a lot louder than the boats. If you're a jumpy person, it's not a site to race at for you.

Ron I wrote an article I think last year and it was published in the rooster tail discussing the physics of sound and sound measurement. The purpose of the article was not trying to not reduce the noise, but to point out the problems of actally doing the measurements. As predicted it turned out to a problem at the Nats. I think we are trying to measure and quantify sound with imperfect measuring tool in an enviroment with many uncontrolled variables. The goal should be to run a muffling device and forget about trying to measure the level which is completely imperfect and use the measurment to disqualify a racer. In a court of law using a good enviromental attorney a club or IMPBA may be paying a lot of money to a disqualified racer for his expenses and lost wages from work. The mere fact that the measuring device was not calibrated that was used at the Nats will win the case. By the way my oldest son is an enviromental lawyer. You might want to get a copy of the article from John Equi. It may need to be put in the next Roostertail again. Gary

Despite all of the differences one one rule remains the same. He who crosses the finish line first wins.

...With that said... for any of you that may be looking for a reason to visit sunny California this may be your opportunity.

2007 NAMBA Nationals.

We promise... we will make it worth your while.

Consider this a friendly invitation.

If IMPBA does not have a Nats and cannot resolve the db meter and you'all are reasonable about the noise I will be there. Doc

What if a site was found that didn't require a noise limit or a more reasonable one then couldn't the rule be over-ridden? Anyone ever thought about that?

The rule is in place & it will be followed. All this bitchin' about the dB's is not coming from the majority membership who voted it in place. The talk of suspending or scaling back this rule needs to stop as the BOD does not have the authority to over-ride a rule voted in place by the IMPBA general membership. Contrary to what a few are trying to get most to believe there are already pipe options that do work, Bobby Himmel ran one of the NAVIGA pipes from CMB @ E-Ville & he was fast & quiet as was posted by Rod Geraghty. Funny how some of those screaming to recall this rule chose to read right past that. <_<

I'm in process of testing a set of pipes on the twin that if they work as I expect them to will run in the low 80's range dB wise. These have been made special for heavy breathing big block motors & if they get the "thumbs up" will be readily available to all. I would have run them yesterday except for the fact my trailer tow vehicle is still @ the dealership getting serviced (seems they couldn't fix it right the first time). I also have pipes on the way from a couple of European friends to test on my single big block as well. Rather than sit & *****/moan/complain I have chosen to do something about it, which is more than I can say for some others involved in this "debate". Don, Since your were not at the Nats, I don't think you have any earthly idea why there is SO MUCH concern and why SO MANY good competitors are SO upset!!!!!!!! The present rule has to be fixed and the measurement technique must be fixed. This issue is not going away. Had you been there and experienced the situation I think you would have a different attitude and would support a fixing the problem. Gary

Once we get a way to get everyone's meters calibrated set in place & a few more test sessions of new stuff (I hear the Coopers are hot on this too) we will be just fine. Time to stop listening to the chicken little's out there, the sky is not falling..................

 

[Bob Finn]

If we were to go back to a "muffling device", we might just as well legalize megaphones while we are it. A few of these people will go right back to making as much noise as they possibly can, and laughing about it. There are apparently some people stupid enough to think thats cool.