IMPBA & AMA Discussion

[Chris Wood]

Just curious,

How many people know about the impba's talks with the ama, and has anyone heard of any news regard this.

thanks

chris

 

[Andy Greene]

Where ya at Greg Hahn ???

Andy

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

Last I heard it was still in the AMA Marketing Committee for study and recommendations to the AMA Executive Council.

From the minutes of the July 2008 EC Meeting

5. Marketing Committee to investigate whether IMPBA is willing to become an AMA SIG and present proposal at October EC meeting. Ref: Marketing Committee report.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/membership/or...8ecminutes.aspx

The next EC meeting is October 25-26, 2008

It really is just in the study phase right now according to what I have been told by the AMA people I have corresponded with.

The procedure right now is for the Marketing Committee to make their recommendations (Chaired by Mark Smith) to the Executive Council (EC) The EC will be who decides what to do next.

The idea is that IMPBA will become an AMA Special Interest Group (SIG). If that were to happen (and both AMA and IMPBA would have to approve it) then all IMPBA members would also be required to join the AMA ($58 annual dues). But then all IMPBA members would be covered under the AMA insurance policy, which while secondary to any other coverage (like homeowner's) it does not have all the stringent requirements that the current IMPBA policy does (like coverage only at approved ponds during sanctioned events).

But it still has a ways to go before it becomes a reality, if it gets that far.

 

[Chris Wood]

as of aug, the ama give a proposal to the impba.. I do not know what the details are but i know that it is in the impba court right now.. I would have to assume that the 58.00 you speak of is higher than what the proposal was but again. i don't know.

maybe some from the impba board can inlighten us on the proposal??

chris

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

No idea what the IMPBA proposal says or contains, but there is no way around the AMA dues. To be a member of an AMA Special Interest Group (SOG) REQUIRES AMA membership at whatever level applies to you, i.e. Junior, Open, Senior Citizen, etc. The SIG may then also charge dues on top of that. Some do and many do not. IMAC, IMAA, NSRCA all do so. LSF does not. No SIG that I am aware of has a special dues structure with the AMA.

Here's the link to the application for a group to become a SIG http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/158.pdf

It is obviously oriented towards airplanes since the AMA is the Academy of Model Aeronautics after all.

 

[bzubee]

Still in discussions Kevin Sheren will be handling the lead on this since our present insurance is still valid until the end of January 2009 which will be during Kevin's term as IMPBA President.

 

[Buddy Benedict]

I think it would be a BAD move. The AMA insurance is Secondary Insurance. This means the racers, lake owners or clubs insurance would pay for any claims then the AMA would cover the rest. I do believe this would make most of the lake owners say "Sorry but you can't race here any more" and clubs will be dieing because of no ponds to run on.

My 2 cents

Buddy Benedict

 

[piper_chuck]

I think it would be a BAD move. The AMA insurance is Secondary Insurance. This means the racers, lake owners or clubs insurance would pay for any claims then the AMA would cover the rest. I do believe this would make most of the lake owners say "Sorry but you can't race here any more" and clubs will be dieing because of no ponds to run on.

I think you should do some research before condemning the idea. AMA insurance for site owners who are listed on an "additional insured" certificate is PRIMARY, not secondary. Also, as has been said earlier, AMA's insurance is way less restrictive than the insurance we have for IMPBA.

 

[piper_chuck]

The idea is that IMPBA will become an AMA Special Interest Group (SIG). If that were to happen (and both AMA and IMPBA would have to approve it) then all IMPBA members would also be required to join the AMA ($58 annual dues). But then all IMPBA members would be covered under the AMA insurance policy, which while secondary to any other coverage (like homeowner's) it does not have all the stringent requirements that the current IMPBA policy does (like coverage only at approved ponds during sanctioned events).
But it still has a ways to go before it becomes a reality, if it gets that far.

I sure hope this happens. It would be nice to no longer have to pay for redundant coverage provided by AMA and IMPBA. It will also free the IMPBA from having to deal with insurance issues. We could just focus on boating.

 

[piper_chuck]

Joining the AMA will also bring us more visibility, which may lead to more racers. Once we become a SIG, we'll have an excuse to put race reports and boating articles in Model Aviation.

 

[Greg Hahn]

I think it would be a BAD move. The AMA insurance is Secondary Insurance. This means the racers, lake owners or clubs insurance would pay for any claims then the AMA would cover the rest. I do believe this would make most of the lake owners say "Sorry but you can't race here any more" and clubs will be dieing because of no ponds to run on.
My 2 cents

Buddy Benedict

Buddy and all,

A little understanding here.

1. AMA insurance is secondary for the individual member only if you already have some type of liability in force (homeowners/work)

if you have no other liability coverage then AMA is primary. If you think that IMPBA insurance being primary means a victim won't go after your personal homeowners policy you're wrong.

2. AMA insurance is primary to all others involved, property owners, clubs, and additional insured, and it's healty, that's why we (AMA) do not have trouble easing the minds of most land owners whom we fly from. Think about it for a minute, flying model airplanes and heli's is at least 10 times more liability risk than running model boats and a large majority of model flying is done on a non-participating person's property. Obviously our (AMA) liability coverage is very strong, along with our safety record.

3. AMA insurance is in force 24/7/365, from my understanding IMPBA insurance is only in force during sanctioned events at sanctioned ponds. If you're testing at Joe Bag of Doughnuts farm pond, or at the city park lake, you're not covered. The IMPBA pays quite a chunk of money for "part time" insurance.

I won't go into all the other coverage you get with AMA like Theft, Fire, Vandalism, emergency care, etc, this is an effort to keep it simple.

If you want to check things out go to http://www.modelaircraft.org/

just a boater trying to help

gh

 

[Ron Zaker Jr]

I think it would be a BAD move. The AMA insurance is Secondary Insurance. This means the racers, lake owners or clubs insurance would pay for any claims then the AMA would cover the rest. I do believe this would make most of the lake owners say "Sorry but you can't race here any more" and clubs will be dieing because of no ponds to run on.
My 2 cents

Buddy Benedict

Buddy and all,

A little understanding here.

1. AMA insurance is secondary for the individual member only if you already have some type of liability in force (homeowners/work)

if you have no other liability coverage then AMA is primary. If you think that IMPBA insurance being primary means a victim won't go after your personal homeowners policy you're wrong.

2. AMA insurance is primary to all others involved, property owners, clubs, and additional insured, and it's healty, that's why we (AMA) do not have trouble easing the minds of most land owners whom we fly from. Think about it for a minute, flying model airplanes and heli's is at least 10 times more liability risk than running model boats and a large majority of model flying is done on a non-participating person's property. Obviously our (AMA) liability coverage is very strong, along with our safety record.

3. AMA insurance is in force 24/7/365, from my understanding IMPBA insurance is only in force during sanctioned events at sanctioned ponds. If you're testing at Joe Bag of Doughnuts farm pond, or at the city park lake, you're not covered. The IMPBA pays quite a chunk of money for "part time" insurance.

I won't go into all the other coverage you get with AMA like Theft, Fire, Vandalism, emergency care, etc, this is an effort to keep it simple.

If you want to check things out go to http://www.modelaircraft.org/

just a boater trying to help

gh

Great FACTS presented Greg, maybe now we can move forward.

Ron Jr

IMPBA 10744S

AMA 834748 (40 year member)

 

[Don Ferrette]

There is still alot of back and forth discussion going & crunching the numbers is one of the big points, IMPBA members have no fears as this is all being looked at. Personally I'd like to see something work out if all the numbers line up & we can iron out a few points. Things are moving forward, we shall see how it goes so think POSITIVE! B)

 

[Ron Olson]

Here's the portion of the minutes in regard to an AMA/IMPBA merger:

Overview of IMPBA – IMPBA (International Model Power Boat Association) is going through some insurance issues and the committee would like to investigate bringing IMPBA under AMA; possibly using the land/pond along the bypass that AMA owns. G. Hahn stated that IMPBA coming under the umbrella of AMA has nothing to do with whether AMA can provide them with a facility. It is suggested that IMPBA become a SIG of the Academy. Concerns that would need to be addressed include: tax issues, administrative issues, noise issues (neighbors), fly-over areas (neighbors and bypass), and maintenance of the site, road installation and zoning. Following some discussion there were two issues to address: whether IMPBA is willing to meet all of the criteria expected of them as an AMA SIG (all members of a SIG MUST be AMA members),and whether AMA should develop a facility for boat use. Council was in agreement that the committee should investigate IMPBA becoming a SIG and present a proposal at the October meeting.

The AMA currently has one on-site pond but not a very good one. It's too small for use as a race site. There was talk of having another one but I don't know if that ever happened. Having a large enough pond there could make having a centralized Internat's site a possibility or reality.

Another upside could be that we could maybe have a place for a real IMPBA Hall of Fame instead of just a place in our minds.

Those that are already AMA members would save some money each year in sanctioning body dues.

 

[Greg Hahn]

Here's the portion of the minutes in regard to an AMA/IMPBA merger:
Overview of IMPBA – IMPBA (International Model Power Boat Association) is going through some insurance issues and the committee would like to investigate bringing IMPBA under AMA; possibly using the land/pond along the bypass that AMA owns. G. Hahn stated that IMPBA coming under the umbrella of AMA has nothing to do with whether AMA can provide them with a facility. It is suggested that IMPBA become a SIG of the Academy. Concerns that would need to be addressed include: tax issues, administrative issues, noise issues (neighbors), fly-over areas (neighbors and bypass), and maintenance of the site, road installation and zoning. Following some discussion there were two issues to address: whether IMPBA is willing to meet all of the criteria expected of them as an AMA SIG (all members of a SIG MUST be AMA members),and whether AMA should develop a facility for boat use. Council was in agreement that the committee should investigate IMPBA becoming a SIG and present a proposal at the October meeting.

The AMA currently has one on-site pond but not a very good one. It's too small for use as a race site. There was talk of having another one but I don't know if that ever happened. Having a large enough pond there could make having a centralized Internat's site a possibility or reality.

Another upside could be that we could maybe have a place for a real IMPBA Hall of Fame instead of just a place in our minds.

Those that are already AMA members would save some money each year in sanctioning body dues.

Ron, good comment

We (AMA) do have a second pond on the property, it's a 3000' x 500' rectangle and is well protected from the wind. Stu Barr, Willis Lewis and myself did quite a bit of testing on it earlier this year and it works well. The facility will need improvements but the possibilities are good.

Also on the upside through several AMA surveys we found that over 26% of present AMA membership owns at least one model boat. that's 40,000 boat owners so the possibility to grow the IMPBA membership is huge.

food for thought

gh

 

[P THOMAS]

I will be waiting for the outcome of this. Looks to benifit both AMA and IMPBA.

Hey our boats fly just not too far with out wings :lol:

 

[Greg Hahn]

I will be waiting for the outcome of this. Looks to benifit both AMA and IMPBA.
Hey our boats fly just not too far with out wings :lol:

Hey Phil, the only difference is altitude

 

[tnrcboatracer]

I had a good 10' high x 75' long flight off of bouy 2 at my last race. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[piper_chuck]

Also on the upside through several AMA surveys we found that over 26% of present AMA membership owns at least one model boat. that's 40,000 boat owners so the possibility to grow the IMPBA membership is huge.food for thought

gh

Has there been a survey of IMPBA members to see how many are also AMA members?

 

[Grimracer]

This is SO OVER DUE is not funny.. we would not loose our identity and we can forget about all the insurance BS... AMA is not GOING ANYPLACE..

FOR GODS SAKE i HOPE?? our new pres can see the light.. if not.........

Grim

AMA#124909.. 35+ years a member..