"F" hydro

[Don Ferrette]

"So it's my ignition system that has you all bothered and not the weight, size of the prop, the holes I make or the fact that you think that I'm going to be in your way?"

I give up. How did you come up with this??

"Make up your mine on what's bothering you! Your going to get all these other guys confused on what it is that you are complaining about."

I've not waivered one bit. If the gas boats want to freely mix it up with the nitro then it should go the other way also. But it seems due to some carefully written gas rules this just isn't possible so you tell me how that is fair? As I said before one word- "glow" added to the displacement chart header & this issue is moot.

"You see for me Don, I never had a problem waxing a guy's ass at the lake with the same thing that he had....That is and never was a problem. I personally like to take a big chunk of metal that I can go cut my grass with and put it in a boat and dog the piss out of a loud mouth's ass all day long at the lake. That sorta make me happy and feel all warm on the inside! I will be in Atlanta and I hope to meet you there "

Well then I'm sure you will get your chance since there are some real hard core nitro guys down south. You've got my curiousity up on an alky powered Zen. I've often wondered if a QD could stand up to 60% nitro & if they make glow plugs that big. Hmmm, come to think of it maybe I could just fire up the lathe & make a QD glow head button. Think of all the weight you'll save tossin' that heavy ignition system.........

 

[Joe Warren]

Herzog... Enter that Boat in Open Hydro in Slidell. We will see Who is eating PROP WASH about March 19th....... Now does it sound like I`am scared??? You WILL EAT WASH OFF MY TWIN... & its under 30cc!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :blink: :blink: Be careful what you ask for . P.S. Bring your own table this time..... it seems it bothered you a few times I needed my own table to launch. I would have been glad to use yours But I could Not Find it..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Joe Warren]

Hey Chris Not to change the Subject.... But Who`s the New Club director in Slidell this year??

 

[Scott Schneider]

I might add ... interesting quote: Problem is that the voting majority of the IMPBA directors are now gas guys who seem to think this double standard is ok.

:blink: think of this double standard as the the geeks wanting to play ball, while the preppies have the time of day all tied up with there class of play ( Nitro)

Take the hobby of model boating ... seperate the play boaters from those that will go race .... establish districts for racing and over 25 ++ years get enough racers to fill a weekend.

Establish a new mode of propulsion (Gas) and try to play within an established group and district .... yea right :angry:

Those who take the challenge ... yes challenge ! of figuring out what it takes to get a gas boat competitive against the standard of fast ( Nitro) do so with No open arms by the established group of nitro boaters.

Why do you think that at every chance the gas guys break away to form there own class's and race venues free of nitro.

And yes !! as the "New" class the rule are written to exclude nitro from racing against them. After all, the gas guys are wanting there choice of engine to GROW and not get squashed in a pissing match of what's faster.

The nitro guys get all pushed out of shape by the gas guys looking for an equal share of opertunitys to race ... after all if the gas guys get more time the nitro guys get less :unsure:

 

[Chris Herzog]

I race all your hard core friends every chance I get. That's why I run in all the open classes. Some of my best races were up against Ernie LaFlure and Cody in open mono. John Brown, Eric Canto, Mark Bullard, Dr. Turner, and Joe Warren in Open Hydro.

I personally don't have a problem racing any of these guys with whatever I bring to the pond, gas or nitro, my stuff is ready to race and that's what you'll have to do if you think you have a chance to beat me. I get a little tired of all the negative talk from both sides. One is not better than the other there different and the same all at the same time. You jumped on Mike T and he had nothing to do with this post. This was started because of a club meeting we, the SGRA had on Thursday night and Dave was just looking for some insight from you guys. The way this post went was about how our club meeting went, witch only means we have a long way to go.

Your right the gas rules were written differently and you can't run a nitro in a gas class unless you run gas through it (loop-hole). I think they the rules should stay this way. But I also think that the nitro rules should be changed to say, FAI or Nitro needs to be the fuel used in the following classes. This way a guy like me who is trying to push the envelope is not punished for trying to find a better way.

The really funny thing in all this is this.....I just read a few weeks back a post by Zuber on the dock, that....Gas boats were and would be welcome at the IMPBA Nats this year. I know that a few showed up last year and ran so I'm thinking, well this is cool. A few more bricks are coming down and we are going to be welcomed with open arms......Ha! If I go, I'll have a bat with me for sure after reading this thread!

You have a good night, I don't plan on posting on this anymore.....I know what you would like and I almost agree totally. To bad not everyone can be like this, both sides would benefit.

C Herzog

 

[Chris Herzog]

Joe,

President......Virgel Ericksen

Vice Persident Charlie Davenport

Sec......David Wickbolt (somewhat new to racing and the guy that started this post)

The only thing that bothers me about you running a twin again is all the **** noise and smoke and fuel all over the dame place between heats...LOL!!!!!!



Oh and please whip your fuel off the table this year when your done running, that stuff gets all over my boat stand and makes a mess of my stuff.

C Herzog

 

[Joe Warren]

Scott @ the IMPBA NITRO 04 Nats We had plenty of boats to make all the classes. The Last Gas Nats 04 if it was Not for the 10,0000 diffent classes they run the same boat in. They would Not have even made 1/2 the classes. I would be very surprised if they were even 50 different boaters entered @ the IMPBA Gas Nats in 04........ Now Where is this POWERFUL SURGE of GASSERS at ??? In our District you can count the Serious Gas boaters on 1 hand.... I would Rather watch my NITRO Boat FLOAT than Run A GASSER..... In your DREAMS Gassers will ever run with a Fine Tuned Nitro powered boat.... Now if you doubt me?? Get in line to fine out..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Danny Bull]

Well this sure looks like a good old fashioned pissing contest to me. We could all drop our pants to see who's got the biggest but I'd hate to see that many grown men crying. This and any recognised forum is a great place to debate rule changes regardless of what class or fuel type but this is not where the rules get changed. Submit your proposals to your organizing body to get the wording right so that it is clear to all with no room for interpretation otherwize.

Change doesn't happen overnight, it takes time. I know, I went through this process with the AMPBA to have the rules for Offshore class updated to fit the needs of a new generation of model boaters. The way the rules read before meant a glow engine would also require a pull starter to be fitted. It's the only class for racing in Australia where gas and glow boats run against each other and only total engine capacities is the difference between class 1, 2 or 3. Belt start, pull start, hell even a kick starter can be used regardless of engine or fuel type.

I do spend most of my time at JRCBD which is more gas orientated but it would be news to me to hear that anyone was not welcome because they choose to use a different fuel source. I've always felt welcome here and the wealth of information from posters like yourself Don and Scott I'm sure is held in high regard by all.

While your thinking of a response to this post, go and have a look at some videos. http://sonicracingaustralia.com/video.htm The 4 newest ones at the top.

Cheers, Danny.

 

[Chris Herzog]

At the IMPBA 04 Gas Nats we had well over 150 boaters and almost 300 boats entered.

This year we are expecting well over 300 boats. for our three day event.

LS-27 gas mono last year had I think 57 boats entered. That's a big class no matter what you run

C Herzog

 

[Joe Warren]

Chris if You cannot stand the Heat, Noise, & Fuel Flying......... Well maybe your @ the Wrong place... I think you gas guys missed the point..... Andy Millet would need a Nitro patch on his head if he was reading this. We Nitro guys like to Mix it up with ya..... But it needs to be done in the Open classes. we are not slamming GAS boaters. I have Good friends that would be out of Boating if Not for Gass boating..... I enjoy their company & would help them in a minute tune their boats. But it needs to be in their respective gas classes or OPEN classes. As for the SLIDELL CHALLANGE. We Will Get it On in Open Hydro if you enter that single gasser you got in there. As for my Own table. I do clean it when I`am done with it..... & I dont have a problem Normally with others using it... But when I`am in the Hot box & your there 2 heats early. I plan to use my own table. even if it means setting your stuff off....

 

[TimD]

I really can't understand what would compell people to run a boat in an entirely different class. It's a shallow victory at best. The majority of times if a gas boat won a race it would be due to DNF's.

(I wouldn't / can't run my 90 mono against the 25cc Gas / petrol mono's and I've only got a 15cc K90 in mine. )

I'm yet to figure out why people want to convert a gas engine like a zenoah that uses piston induction to run on a different fuel and fit glow plugs to it? Why not utilise the engineering involved on something that can supply decent inlet timing? Don't get me wrong - I'm not having a shot at anyone, and the zenoah is a great engine for what it's designed to do. Knowing what a difference adjusting the inlet timing can make on a 2 stroke makes me think this way.

 

[RaceCraftBearings]

Cabin Fever must be HELL! Come to Florida to live and you can race all year round which leaves no time for this kind of HOBBY killin argument.

I dont think there is one Gas boater in FL that wants to run outside his or her designated classes or at least I dont here them cryin about it. As someone said they dont run Funny Car against Pro Stock and you dont here the Pro Stock guys complaining. Nitro is the top dog in NHRA and there is a reason for it. Don't you think that if there was a way to get Gas going that fast they would have done it by now? I am not by any means cuttin on Gas so dont get your panties in a wad.

We are all boaters and we will be stronger as a group try not to tear it apart!

I put in 4 hard years to help the Gas boaters we had in Orlando get organized to start running at an organized event rather than just sport run. We started and held the Gas Bash just for Gas boats and we were an all Nitro Club back then. We are now both. Gas has come along way since those days and I now enjoy watching the Gas classes compete, the motors are turning some R's and they sound much better, the drivers are much much better than back then as well. I am glad I took the time to steer them to organized racing so please dont make me regret it! Its not about who has the most boats at a race Nitro or Gas and belive me there weremany years that Nitro was the only thing there, the times are changing and now there are alot of Gas Boaters making the races and my two cents on that is that its because a nitro boater steered them in that direction so as they say dont bite the hand that feeds you! I am tired of the Gas Nitro fued and its time we all get along and have FUN as a group!

Just go to the pond and run in your proper classes, and HAVE FUN! IF F Class is where they leagaly mix then so be it but remember its not about who has the bigger prop and makes the biggest holes those are just ways for a heavier Gas boat to knock out a lighter faster Nitro's so there is no one left but Gas for the win and that my friend is really whats wrong with mixing Gas and Nitro.

Ron "We are all boaters" Byrd

 

[Don Ferrette]

I sent a p/m earlier to a fellow I/W member & believe I need to share most of it with all & I think I will end my posts on this topic with it-

"I think what really got me wound up is the talk of the gas faction going off & making it's own org. This would not be the first time I've heard this & would be a sad day for both sides. All I want, all I ever wanted, is it to be fair & just for both sides & right now I don't think it is. It is no secret the the gas rules were influenced by those who wanted to prevent any possibility of a nitro boat running but they exploit the "grey" wording of the nitro rules. We all know those nitro rules are old & need updating. Combining gas & nitro is fine, I did it for years running the Wash. D.C. club with open classes & that option should always be there. I also had some races where there wasn't enough F monos so they ran with gas & vice versa. Open offshore was always a cool race to watch. You'd see all the gas guys go right in at the start while all the nitro boats would wait until the last possible moment 'cause they where freakin' out about running out of fuel before the finish. Anyway, I just want to fix the wording of the nitro engine chart & put the decision back in the hands of CD's & host clubs where it belongs."

I have absolutely nothing against gas boaters. I still feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with combining gas & nitro in OPEN classes. I see open classes readily offered at all the nitro races I attend & actually alot of gas only classes at those races as well. But has anyone seen an open class at a gas race for the nitro guys to "mix it up"? I can't think of one example. Why is that? This is not a "us vs. them" mentality but as soon as there is talk about fixing the nitro "loophole" this is the mentality that seems to rear it's ugly head from the gas side. This is about a fair & level playing field that's all, nothing more. If specific gas class rules prohibit nitro boats then it is only fitting that the nitro rules have that equality. Nobody is saying anything about not being able to combine them in open classes or when there is a boat shortage on either side. This option will always be there & should be left up to the CD & host club. You have your gas only classes & your nitro only classes & the open classes to "mix 'em up". You run short of boats then the option to combine is up to the CD, host club & the racers. Sounds simple to me. Perhaps it's too simple......... :blink:

 

[Jerry Wyss]

'EL, U'KiN BRiNg Urrr JON DeeR TrAktR! AN I'L MEET U At dUH ARMORY!!! :lol:

DISCLAIMER

NOTE: The above IS Not directed to Those of you that Run Gas Engines; "The Arguement" that just took place reminded me of The OLD Professional Wrestling

My Mom and Grandparents use to watch when I was young, coming out of Portland

Oregon.

Over 3 yrs ago I had to run with the gas boats to be able to "Run At All", with the

boat I'm holding. But I had to take 2 years off cause of my Plumbing Buiz,,and

when I came back last season, The Gas Powered boats I saw would "Smoke"

what I had. I threatened to put a gas motor in the "remake" of that boat,,but I already had 2 nitro engines for the thing.

 

[Tim Kish]

A crazy thought

While outside playing ball hockey with my son I had a crazy thought.

It would be rally nice if something good could come from this post.

It seems to me as long as there is a them and us mentality nothing will ever be solved even though we are all model boaters.

.

I remember a post a little while ago about how most people felt the time trial stuff at the Internats was becoming more of a waste of time than it was worth so this is what I suggest.

Have a true Internats.

Combine both Gas and Nitro at the same event doing away with the time trial stuff.

Run One heat of gas the next of nitro and so on.

If time permitted you could even have a true open hydro clas as well as an open mono class.

This would be great for the person that likes both ends of the hobby it would also give people a chance to get to know what the other guys are doing and dare I say make some new freinds.

Is this crazy or am I just naive enough to think it might work.

Any thoughts ?

A Naive Tim Kish

 

[Brad Christy]

Guys,

I'm 100% with Don F. on his last post. I, like Don, se a clear "one-way diffusion" mentallity coming from the gas camp: They want to run with the nitro guys, but the nitro guys are not welcome at their gas-specific events. This is not a healthy mind set.

However,

I have actually seen this in play at several races, going in both directions. At one race (and I forget where it was or when), there was only two F Hydros registered, so it was suggested they be combined with the Open Gas Hydros. The arguement began instantaneously. The decision was made and the classes were combined. For the rest of the weekend, the gas guys either lost by, well, losing, or won by DNF (last boat running). At the end of the weekend a nitro boat took home the big wood, and I don't need to tell you how well that sat with the gas crowd.

I have also seen gas guys withdraw their entry when they were told they had to run with the nitro guys, due to low turn-out.

This being said, I tend to think the idea of a "moment of choice" decision to combine gas and nitro classes is a bad idea.

OPEN classes, however, are a wonderful idea, but this has to be tread carefully as well. At our last club meeting, we were discussing classes to be offered. For some (stupid) reason, "we" (not me) have decided to eliminate the big block hydro classes this year (again). When the topic of the Offshore class was brought up, the gass guys immediately started insisting that it be a gas only class, and if the nitro guys want to run Offshore, then they should hae their own class. When I asked them why they didn't want to make it an OPEN class, they quietly replied "I just don't." HMMMMMMMM..........

This leads me back to what Don was saying. Equality should flow in both directions, NOT just for the betterment of one side, which is what has been happening for the last couple years.

When the gas engines started showing up, they were scoffed for being too slow, but for the sake of letting them race, gas rules were generated, somewhat mindlessly, and added to the rulebooks. I think the mentallity at the time was that they would eventually fade away, like a bad dream. Didn't happen. In an effort to get more race time, the gas guys have added class after class after class, until now there are just about as many gas classes as there are nitro classes. I dont have a problem with this. What I do have a problem with is that the gas guys can have their own "exclusive" event, but want to run at a national level even that was, at one time, called the "Nitro Internats". What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If the gas guys didn't have their own exclusive event, I might feel otherwise, but now that there is a "Gas Nationals", I do NOT believe gas boats should be included in the Internats.

It was commented earlier that Bill Zuber had made a statement to the effect that gas boats would be welcomed the the '05 IMPBA Internats. If memory serves me well, Bill has recently made the "switch" from nitro to gas. I don't have any issues with Mr. Zuber (I've only met him once, at the '02 Internats), but if he is going to use his position of President to force this issue, then he was not the man for the job. This is not an attack on Bill, just my observation of the obvious.

BTW, a two or three boat heat is actually kinda fun. It's the way most heats end up, anyway, only without all the dead wood on the course. At the Indy Polar Bear last season, there were two 21 hydros entered. Dave Roach and I had a blast chasing each other all day, and I think the "crowd" liked it, too. The only problem with it was that there was no second place, just first and LAST place, a winner and a LOSER (which turned out to be me......... )

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[Joe Warren]

Well Said Brad.....

 

[Heartbeat]

I will never understand this crap

You build a boat (or car) to race in a specific class, according to the rules of that class. Why do certain people want to change the rules instead of just complying.

Mike

 

[ClayGlover]

I will never understand this crap
You build a boat (or car) to race in a specific class, according to the rules of that class.  Why do certain people want to change the rules instead of just complying. 

Mike

83470[/snapback]

​

Well, I would venture to say that rule changes sometimes need to be made due to #1-newer technologies and #2- people changing interests

 

[Heartbeat]

I guess I should have said bend the rules.

Rules do need to be changed or added at times.

Mike