EPOXY ON RIGGER ???????????????/
- Thread starter RANK
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RodneyPierce
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I would think you could just rough it up before you painted it. I dont think you will need to remove all the epoxy, first off, you wont ever get it all removed as some of it soaks into the pores of the wood. Im nota professional painte, but I think taht is what i woudl do.....
Shark
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Rank,
Not true. Roughing up I mean. As with any chemicals, mixing epoxy PAINTS with automotive paints is a disaster waiting to happen.
The contamination factor between the two will keep you sanding for weeks.
Here is my recommendations based on years of painting.
First, go to home depot or something like it, purchase a can of JASCO epoxy paint remover. Buy some epoxy brushes or disposable types. Buy some gloves, buy three plastic paint scrapers. Buy an empty can to pour the JASCO into.
Get a workable area, preferably outdoors or garage and lay down some newspapers. Brush on the JASCO liberally onto one surface at a time (like one side at a time) give the JASCO 10 minutes to work, take the plastic scrapers and scrape the paint off the tub with little or no effort at all.
Once the JASCO hits the painted surface, you will see a chemical reaction in the form of paint bubbles, once the surface is in bubbles, just scrape it off. The JASCO will take the paint and primer off all the way down to the wood or fiberglass. THIS CHEMICAL WILL NOT HURT ANY SURFACES (WOOD, FIBERGLASS) After you scrape the paint and debris off, use wet paper towels and wipe the surface clean. The water will neutralize the JASCO on the boat.
However, DO NOT USE THIS ON ABS unless you have some practice. YOUR WORKING TIME IS WAY LESS ON ABS and it will MELT ABS if you leave it on too long.
After you remove all paint and primer on the tub and sponsons, wet sand with black wet 330 paper and using water with a touch of "dishwashing liquid" (like two drops) you will be able to take all remaining paint off in less than two hours.
Take the boat in this condition to the painter and he will appreciate the efforts. He will be able to resurface and primer the boat and parts without having to struggle removing the epoxy. Nothing pisses off a painter more than extra work.
JASCO is the best way to remove paint from any boat.
Got questions? Let me know.
Rey.
Not true. Roughing up I mean. As with any chemicals, mixing epoxy PAINTS with automotive paints is a disaster waiting to happen.
The contamination factor between the two will keep you sanding for weeks.
Here is my recommendations based on years of painting.
First, go to home depot or something like it, purchase a can of JASCO epoxy paint remover. Buy some epoxy brushes or disposable types. Buy some gloves, buy three plastic paint scrapers. Buy an empty can to pour the JASCO into.
Get a workable area, preferably outdoors or garage and lay down some newspapers. Brush on the JASCO liberally onto one surface at a time (like one side at a time) give the JASCO 10 minutes to work, take the plastic scrapers and scrape the paint off the tub with little or no effort at all.
Once the JASCO hits the painted surface, you will see a chemical reaction in the form of paint bubbles, once the surface is in bubbles, just scrape it off. The JASCO will take the paint and primer off all the way down to the wood or fiberglass. THIS CHEMICAL WILL NOT HURT ANY SURFACES (WOOD, FIBERGLASS) After you scrape the paint and debris off, use wet paper towels and wipe the surface clean. The water will neutralize the JASCO on the boat.
However, DO NOT USE THIS ON ABS unless you have some practice. YOUR WORKING TIME IS WAY LESS ON ABS and it will MELT ABS if you leave it on too long.
After you remove all paint and primer on the tub and sponsons, wet sand with black wet 330 paper and using water with a touch of "dishwashing liquid" (like two drops) you will be able to take all remaining paint off in less than two hours.
Take the boat in this condition to the painter and he will appreciate the efforts. He will be able to resurface and primer the boat and parts without having to struggle removing the epoxy. Nothing pisses off a painter more than extra work.
JASCO is the best way to remove paint from any boat.
Got questions? Let me know.
Rey.
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Are you sure that's cool with Fiberglass I was told that it would mess up a fiberglass surface. I am curious because I am days away from starting to repaint my mono and I was just going to sand, primer and seal the painted surface underneath rather than go through the hard work of sanding all the paint even though I would prefer to start with a bare clean surface.
Paul Pachmayer
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Hi Guys,
Paul.
Same here, I seal all my wood boats with epoxy before painting or clear coating. All I do is lightly sand the hull before the paint goes on, haven't had a problem yet.
Paul.
anthony_marquart
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I have boats painted after sealing with epoxy. In fact, it's the only way I've ever done it. 2-3 light coats of finishing resin, sand pretty smooth,.. then to the body shop.
dannyual767
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posted by shark,
) so I'm very interested in this thread.
I think that Rank has epoxy resin on his hull and not epoxy paint. Most people don't seem to have any problems with epoxy resin sealed hulls and then automotive paint over that. I've got 3 wood hulls that are now sealed with epoxy resin and I'll be shooting automotive paint here sometime soon (translation: sometime in the first half of the summer
) so I'm very interested in this thread.
gil sonsino
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All my wood riggers are epoxy sealed and painted with PPG painting...never had a problem. The difference here is how you do prepare the surfaces before the finishing!
Gill
Gill
Shark
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Fellas,
Epoxy resin is fine, epoxy paint is not a match for automotive grade paints and clears.
PPG, Deltron, Dupont paints will react badly to epoxy paint left underneath primers...
As the paints try to bond with the primers, they contact the epoxy and contaminate the paint.
Second, as for the JASCO, it will not hurt fiberglass. This is the best way to remove paint from fiberglass without sanding the surface to death or exposing pinholes already sealed.
Roger, with fiberglass, you put the JASCO on, wait for the reaction on the paint, scrape and wipe clean. You will have it done in no time. I have painted, stripped and repainted many fiberglass boats as product testor for Prather products. You will find that the surface will not show any signs of melting, discoloring or softening. This method will speed up the process of removing paint in hours!! You wil see that the JASCO, depending on your type of primer will disolve all the paint but will leave a small amount of primer on the surface. This you wet sand off with 330 black paper and some dishwashing liquid. Its more a clean up then tough sanding. The surface will then be clean and free of old chemicals. Alway sand in circular motions and never side to side or up and down.
For my wood hulls, I seal the wood with Z-POXY finishing resin then wet sand to a smooth glassy finish. All paints work with this resin.
Remember this, when it comes to paints, all paints have compatibility problems with other brands.
Mixing model fuel proof paints with automotive grade paints is not a good idea.
When painting, it is always best to remove all paints and primers from the surfaces and begin again with a clean and fresh surface. In the end, the boat will not have an additional amount of unnecessary amount of weight affiliated with old paints and primers..
If you continue to paint over exisiting paints and primers, you will eventually build up at least a pound of weight (total surfaces)
The easiest resin I have found to work that leaves the wood looking like glass is the Z-Poxy finishing resin.
It goes on pretty smooth for the most part and dries a little bumpy, but it sands extremely easy and lasts forever without turning yellow or softening. It is also very strong and a good seal for the interior of your boats leaving a high gloss finish. The only chemical that will discolor this resin is a high exposure to WD-40.
Epoxy resin is fine, epoxy paint is not a match for automotive grade paints and clears.
PPG, Deltron, Dupont paints will react badly to epoxy paint left underneath primers...
As the paints try to bond with the primers, they contact the epoxy and contaminate the paint.
Second, as for the JASCO, it will not hurt fiberglass. This is the best way to remove paint from fiberglass without sanding the surface to death or exposing pinholes already sealed.
Roger, with fiberglass, you put the JASCO on, wait for the reaction on the paint, scrape and wipe clean. You will have it done in no time. I have painted, stripped and repainted many fiberglass boats as product testor for Prather products. You will find that the surface will not show any signs of melting, discoloring or softening. This method will speed up the process of removing paint in hours!! You wil see that the JASCO, depending on your type of primer will disolve all the paint but will leave a small amount of primer on the surface. This you wet sand off with 330 black paper and some dishwashing liquid. Its more a clean up then tough sanding. The surface will then be clean and free of old chemicals. Alway sand in circular motions and never side to side or up and down.
For my wood hulls, I seal the wood with Z-POXY finishing resin then wet sand to a smooth glassy finish. All paints work with this resin.
Remember this, when it comes to paints, all paints have compatibility problems with other brands.
Mixing model fuel proof paints with automotive grade paints is not a good idea.
When painting, it is always best to remove all paints and primers from the surfaces and begin again with a clean and fresh surface. In the end, the boat will not have an additional amount of unnecessary amount of weight affiliated with old paints and primers..
If you continue to paint over exisiting paints and primers, you will eventually build up at least a pound of weight (total surfaces)
The easiest resin I have found to work that leaves the wood looking like glass is the Z-Poxy finishing resin.
It goes on pretty smooth for the most part and dries a little bumpy, but it sands extremely easy and lasts forever without turning yellow or softening. It is also very strong and a good seal for the interior of your boats leaving a high gloss finish. The only chemical that will discolor this resin is a high exposure to WD-40.
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Shark
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Rank,
ok cool, if its just resin, then circular sanding with a 330 wet black paper plus dishwashing liquid will provide a clean surface for the painter. If you should sand side to side or up and down, those motions will appear in the paint especially when the clear is applied.
Circular motions will not appear in the paint.
The dishwashing liquid will help not only clean the surface as you sand, but it also keeps the paper clean from buildup.
Always stay away from the edges when you sand. Leave those close to alone as possible unless you have excessive buildup of resin.
Edges always have the least amount of cover whether it be resin, primer, paint & clear.
post a picture when its done!
ok cool, if its just resin, then circular sanding with a 330 wet black paper plus dishwashing liquid will provide a clean surface for the painter. If you should sand side to side or up and down, those motions will appear in the paint especially when the clear is applied.
Circular motions will not appear in the paint.
The dishwashing liquid will help not only clean the surface as you sand, but it also keeps the paper clean from buildup.
Always stay away from the edges when you sand. Leave those close to alone as possible unless you have excessive buildup of resin.
Edges always have the least amount of cover whether it be resin, primer, paint & clear.
post a picture when its done!
dannyual767
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- May 27, 2004
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Shark, thanks for all the great information. You've really got my attention.
Two of my wood hulls are covered with lightweight glass cloth (.75oz and 1.37oz). I used a "squeegee" to apply the epoxy resin and the cloth application went very well. However, even after a light sanding, the weave of the lightweight cloth is still there. I was planning on shooting a coat of old Hobbypoxy clear epoxy onto both hulls so that I could fill the weave and sand the hulls smooth . I guess I'm going to have to try to apply another coat of epoxy resin instead. I just don't know of a good way to apply it smoothly to minimize sanding. To much sanding usually results in sanding through the glass cloth in certain places like the edges.
Should I forget about the second coat of resin and just shoot automotive primer to fill the weave? This doesn't seem right to me :unsure: .
Two of my wood hulls are covered with lightweight glass cloth (.75oz and 1.37oz). I used a "squeegee" to apply the epoxy resin and the cloth application went very well. However, even after a light sanding, the weave of the lightweight cloth is still there. I was planning on shooting a coat of old Hobbypoxy clear epoxy onto both hulls so that I could fill the weave and sand the hulls smooth
. I guess I'm going to have to try to apply another coat of epoxy resin instead. I just don't know of a good way to apply it smoothly to minimize sanding. To much sanding usually results in sanding through the glass cloth in certain places like the edges.Should I forget about the second coat of resin and just shoot automotive primer to fill the weave? This doesn't seem right to me :unsure: .
Shark
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Danny,
Any exposing of the cloth will weaken the fiberglass at those points. At some point, due to stresses while running, stress cracks will appear under the paint if you just paint over the exposed weave.
However, if you apply another coat of Polyester resin (brushed on) over the exposed areas, and then wet sand with 400 wet paper, you will not re-expose the cloth and you can finish from that point.
The best type of polyester resin on the market for this purpose is Z-POXY finishing resin.
Exposed weaves will begin to crack the moment they are exposed to heat over 65 degrees, mainly in sunlight for prolonged periods. Once you reseal the weave, it will not be prone to cracking.
does this answer your question?
edit: also when it comes to colors, there are some that will enhance softening of the fiberglass. Colors like black and dark navy blue will trap excess heat in a fiberglass hull and cause the hull to become soft. Picture this scenario; you are at a race and its 90 degrees outside. You have a black painted fiberglass tunnel and its in the sun the sun most of the day, the hull while sitting on the stand will begin to distort to the shape of the stand, then when you run it, the water will "re-cool" the glass and lock in the distorted shape. The hull has absorbed a tremendous amount of heat and the BLACK color will not release that energy outward. The end result is softening.
Stay with colors that disapate heat and not retain it. Excess Heat will also loosen joints or "joiners" on glass hulls. Here in So. California, we have races that sometime take place in 100+ degree heat, and we have seen boats separate during a heat race. Those that did were always painted black or dark pigment colors.
There have been many boaters who say "man, this bottom just wont stay straight" then you tell them about the color and they say "now you tell me" !! (end edit)
Rey.
Any exposing of the cloth will weaken the fiberglass at those points. At some point, due to stresses while running, stress cracks will appear under the paint if you just paint over the exposed weave.
However, if you apply another coat of Polyester resin (brushed on) over the exposed areas, and then wet sand with 400 wet paper, you will not re-expose the cloth and you can finish from that point.
The best type of polyester resin on the market for this purpose is Z-POXY finishing resin.
Exposed weaves will begin to crack the moment they are exposed to heat over 65 degrees, mainly in sunlight for prolonged periods. Once you reseal the weave, it will not be prone to cracking.
does this answer your question?
edit: also when it comes to colors, there are some that will enhance softening of the fiberglass. Colors like black and dark navy blue will trap excess heat in a fiberglass hull and cause the hull to become soft. Picture this scenario; you are at a race and its 90 degrees outside. You have a black painted fiberglass tunnel and its in the sun the sun most of the day, the hull while sitting on the stand will begin to distort to the shape of the stand, then when you run it, the water will "re-cool" the glass and lock in the distorted shape. The hull has absorbed a tremendous amount of heat and the BLACK color will not release that energy outward. The end result is softening.
Stay with colors that disapate heat and not retain it. Excess Heat will also loosen joints or "joiners" on glass hulls. Here in So. California, we have races that sometime take place in 100+ degree heat, and we have seen boats separate during a heat race. Those that did were always painted black or dark pigment colors.
There have been many boaters who say "man, this bottom just wont stay straight" then you tell them about the color and they say "now you tell me" !! (end edit)
Rey.
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gil sonsino
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The best type of polyester resin on the market for this purpose is Z-POXY finishing resin.
I guess you meant to say epoxy resin not poliester one...anyway I use Z- poxy finishing resin in all my riggers with great sucess.
Gill
I guess you meant to say epoxy resin not poliester one...anyway I use Z- poxy finishing resin in all my riggers with great sucess.
Gill
mark voorhies
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I use SYSTEM lll to seal wood hulls with, 220 sand, and ready for any paint.
dannyual767
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Once again, great info Shark! Okay, I won't just paint primer over the weave of the cloth. My cloth is completely saturated with resin and clear (none of it is dry or white) but you can still feel the weave. I need to apply a second coat of epoxy resin.
My concern is lack of smoothness in the second application of epoxy resin. Thats why I thought that I had a great idea to just shoot a coat of epoxy clear paint. However, it looks like automotive paint will not be compatible with epoxy paint. Using a brush just doesn't seem to give a smooth finish and lots of sanding needs to be done. More sanding usually means more opportunity to accidentally sand through the glass cloth. Maybe I can use my squeegee to try to get a smoother finish.
BTW, I only covered these two hulls with glass cloth just to see if I could. I've got a built Dumas Lil Rascal rigger that is only sealed with epoxy to save weight. I've also got an unbuilt Dumas Miller American 1/8 scale hydro that will be sealed only with no cloth for weight savings.
My concern is lack of smoothness in the second application of epoxy resin. Thats why I thought that I had a great idea to just shoot a coat of epoxy clear paint. However, it looks like automotive paint will not be compatible with epoxy paint. Using a brush just doesn't seem to give a smooth finish and lots of sanding needs to be done. More sanding usually means more opportunity to accidentally sand through the glass cloth. Maybe I can use my squeegee to try to get a smoother finish.
BTW, I only covered these two hulls with glass cloth just to see if I could. I've got a built Dumas Lil Rascal rigger that is only sealed with epoxy to save weight. I've also got an unbuilt Dumas Miller American 1/8 scale hydro that will be sealed only with no cloth for weight savings.
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