Cool Engine

[Jim Allen]

 

[Joey Jones]

Awesome. Thanks for posting that.

-Joey

 

[LohringMiller]

Engines like that, beautiful as they are,  are the last gasps of 20th century technology.  You can still get a religious experience listening to big engines with a boat ride.   I think this is going to be the future of the super car.  You can buy its domesticated cousin now.  It will be the quickest car you ever owned.

Lohring Miller

 

[RaceMechaniX]

The Aston Martin does have a wonderful song with the V12 engine, but we'll see more of the highly boosted small engines putting out the same kind of power as the big NA engines.  Power in the range of 250hp/L with much better torque than the Aston Martin.  All FCA needs to do is ditch the blower for twin turbo's and the Hellcat goes from 700hp to 1000hp in a blink.  

Although the EV's are quick, you just are not going to see them in the same "hypercar" category as the McLaren's, Aston Martin's, etc.  You will see a lot of strong hybrid options like the new C8 vette.  5.5L twin turbo V8 with 800hp on tap from the factory and add on a 200hp electric front axle and voila you have a 1000hp vette that costs a fraction of what the Aston does. 

It's a wonderful time to be in the engine business.......... 

 

[LohringMiller]

We'll see.  I still love those engines, but they're expensive to build even with today's manufacturing.  I don't think the Chinese figured out how to build quality engines even with US and European help.  They can build electric motors, though.  A very large percent of the cars sold in the future will be in China.  Europe is planning to outlaw IC engine cars.  Electrics aren't quite there yet, but improving battery technology is on their side.  In the interim, amazing  acceleration, handling, and adequate range makes a really fun ride.  All the computer driven aids and accessories are a plus for some.  Besides, you can afford one.  Try a Tesla Model 3.

Lohring Miller

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Europe are threatening to ban IC engines, but this is political fodder.  California is doing the same.  They will tighten emissions and fuel economy regulations to the  point where you have to hybridize vehicles and likely adopt cleaner fuels, but it's a loooong ways away from achieving the energy density of liquid fuel sources and putting in electrical infrastructure in place.  

I enjoy pointing out that Tesla's are majorly purchased by families that have multiple vehicles including a IC powered car for long distances.  It cannot replace a traditional vehicle today as the sole vehicle without limitations.  

I do enjoy the challenges the new vehicles face and without a healthy competition, innovation will not advance.

 

[LohringMiller]

Battery cost and capacity is the issue.  The 310 mile advertised range on a Model 3 performance is more like 200 miles when you consider that you should run between 10 and 80% charge for battery life.  Driving that takes advantage of the available performance also really uses the charge.  I get around 3 miles per kilowatt hour, not the 4 miles per kilowatt hour advertised.   It's probably because most of my commute is at 65 to 75 mph speeds with occasional (but fun) excursions for passing on 2 lane roads. 

The manufacturing technology developed for IC engines over the last century is hard to beat.  Electronic engine management is stretching the IC engine life span.  Hybrid electrically boosted engines and turbos will extend the current IC capabilities.  Still, the handwriting is on the wall.  We're where steam was in the early 20th century.  Only really old guys think that IC model engine boats will hold the future ultimate SAW records.  That said, I would like to take a shot at the IMPBA steam SAW record.  I can't imagine not going close to 100 mph with the right setup.

Lohring Miller

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Lohring,

I think you and Mike should shoot for 100mph with a flash steam boat.  

Tyler

 

[LohringMiller]

I just talked to Mike when he visited the US.  He's currently living in England building Honda Cadet class kart engines.  He has a great design for an electric hydro to beat our UIM electric record.  He's trying to get the university at Southampton to build it as a student project.  He also was impressed by the Tesla.  Brian Buaas insists he will build a boat to fit any power plant I come up with.  I just need to build and test something. 

Lohring Miller

 

[Brad Christy]

Lohring,

I hear ya.  There is no doubting the performance specs the electrics are capable of. But, until we can pull up to a charging station, sit for a minute and a half, and drive away ready for another 300+ miles, all-electric cars are a fantasy vision of the future. If we get to that point, THEN we will ready to leave IC behind. We had better have fully embraced nuclear power by then, or there isn't a snowballs hope in Hades of providing the sheer volume of electrons that we be required.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[LohringMiller]

All true.  However, I just plug the car in over night and wake up with a full charge, same as my phone.  As long as you don't drive over 200 miles round trip it's easy.  My commute is around 100 miles between home charging.  Longer trips need to be taken more leisurely.  These days I find that I need rest stops at around 200 miles.  No more 5 hour drives between stops.

Lohring Miller

 

[JimZaremski]

Battery cost and capacity is the issue.  The 310 mile advertised range on a Model 3 performance is more like 200 miles when you consider that you should run between 10 and 80% charge for battery life.

hybrids have been doing this forever; they only allow the pack to drain down to ~20% and charge up to ~80%, and the stated range per charge accounts for that.  I'd be very surprised if Tesla doesn't do the same, since running LiIon cells flat is a death sentence for them

 

[LohringMiller]

Tests have been done on Tesla packs.  Even with 90% to 10% use, they don't loose capacity quickly.  The estimate is less than 15% over 400,000 miles of driving.  With more conservative use they deteriorate less.  Control of batteries in their own factory is Tesla's main advantage over other electric car manufacturers.

Lohring Miller

 

[Hydro Junkie]

I have to agree, right now charging time and range are a real killer.  

Last September, the wife and I drove to just south of Denver from our house,  north of Seattle.  With the round trip being roughly 3,000 miles, we would have had to stop 15 times to recharge during the trip.  With our 2017 Impala, with it's 3.6 liter V6, 6 speed automatic and 18 gallon gas tank, we stopped in Jerome ID and Rawlins WY each way, leaving home with a full tank and leaving Castle Rock Colorado with a full tank on the return trip.  Last May, we drove to Reno and back, roughly 800 miles each way.  We only had to gas up in Chemult Oregon each way and when we got to Reno.  Now, when you figure a gas stop takes roughly 10 minutes, we only lost 60 minutes total across both trips combined to gas up.  We also were running at 75+ mph for a majority of the way so that was cutting down our range a bit.

For comparison purposes, using Lohring's Tesla 3's 200 mile range, driving to Reno would require us to stop at the following:

1) Vancouver WA

2) Eugene OR(not so much a range issue but, to get to Chemult, you have to cross the Cascades so recharging is advised since it's roughly 225 miles)

3) Chemult OR(our one gas stop with the Impala)

4) Alturas CA

5) Reno, upon arrival

The issue here is finding charging stations and the time it would take to charge the batteries.  What I find interesting is, except for Eugene, these are the same stops I'd make if I was pulling my 26 foot camp trailer with my Tahoe, since I will run roughly 200 miles on a tank of gas.  The difference is I don't need to find a charging station, just a gas station or travel center

 

[LohringMiller]

And you make this trip how often?  If you do, an electric car isn't for you.  They're only competitive for daily trips of 200 miles or less with over night charging at your home.  Rent a car with the gas savings for the once a year cross country travel or buy a motor home if that's your way of life.  Otherwise the current Tesla model 3 is a lot more fun to drive.  My 100 mile commute over windy Oregon roads is the highlight of my work week.  Passing log trucks and motor homes was never easier.

Lohring Miller

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Trust me Lohring, I'm not running down your Tesla.

I'm just pointing out that there are some times when an IC powered vehicle is the better choice. 

As for how often we go on road trips, we'll be heading to eastern Washington several times between now and Labor Day weekend.  We will be heading to Reno once and to Georgia(via Reno, Phoenix, Dallas and Huntsville with a return trip through Tennessee and across Nebraska.  The trip to Reno only will be by car, the rest will take the Tahoe and trailer.  Since all of our trips have job related time limits, taking the time to wait for batteries to recharge isn't an option.  Now, as a daily commuter, I drive about as far as you do.  My issue is that I can't afford to spend the money to buy an electric car to commute to work when I have four vehicles already sitting in front of my house

Someone made a comment about making all IC cars in Europe illegal, or something to that effect.  In Europe, everything is fairly close together so the shorter range of an electric car would work well.  For that matter, smaller cars in general make more sense when you consider that many areas have narrow roads that were originally made for horse drawn wagons.  That said, driving cross country, like we do here in the US normally isn't done.  For a European, to drive the equivalent of Seattle to NYC would be like driving from Paris to Moscow.  There isn't the need to do so, making long range vehicles a waste of time and money

 

[JimZaremski]

I'm seriously considering an EV for my next car in a year or so.  I've my eye on one coming out around then, and so long as it has ~275 miles of range per charge it'll cover probably 99.9% of my usage.  the longest drive I ever make in a given year is to Celina, and I don't use my own vehicle for that anyway.