Cant sell certain decals any more

[Brad Christy]

Chuck,

I have to agree with BigBird, although I'm not sure "underhanded" would be the term I'd use. Instead of DeWalt taking the high road, and approaching Wes with a "How can we help each other?" mentality, they chose to attempt to blindside him with a rediculous lawsuit, hoping he will just write a check to make them leave him alone. It was stupid. In reality, it was probably someone from their legal dept. trying to make a namd for himself in the eyes of management. I can assure you, their PR dept. never saw any of this, but they will soon enough, and when they do, this will all go away for Wes.

I know I've bought my last DeWalt/B&D product.........

Hey Wes, in the meantime, start giving the DeWalt decal sets away to those who need them. You can settle up with them some time in the future, somewhere off the sidelines. h34r:

Just goes to show you need to know who you're selling to.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[piper_chuck]

So we all agree on a Dewalt BOYCOT...Make it loud and proud on every site we visit. Remember Black n Decker is also a Dewalt product.
BB

Great idea! Let's do what we can to put yet another US company out of business! All because they are asking someone to not infringe on their copyrights as part of his business in supplying graphics for our toy boats. Pardon me if I don't join in this boycott. :angry:

The right thing to do here is to politely approach them with an explanation of exactly what the business is, how it helps Dewalt and to show them how they get free advertising as a result. They have a sponsorship link on their web site and since they do sponsor racing, there's a good chance they'll see a reason to allow these graphics to be made.

You must work for Dewalt...sorry

To bad they didn't extend that hand to Wes before sending him a bill for $22000.00. Dewalt is an underhanded organization that should be delt with the American way...BOYCOT

Let's see if I have this right. Dewalt found someone profiting from the use of THEIR trademarks and you call them underhanded for telling him to stop? When did using someone else's trademarks without permission become the "American way"?

Wes is not using their trademark, He is making stickers for toy boats. We have a hobbie that requires us, the 1/8th scale class, to get trade names to run a class of boat. There is no profit. It's a HOBBIE. Dewalt jumped off trhe deep end and we as consumers have the right not to support their product. That's the American Way..

BB

Wes already said he SOLD a set of graphics to someone else. It's clear he's not going to get rich doing this, but once one crosses the line between decorating one's own boat (plane, car, etc) with a company's graphics and making and selling those graphics to someone else, the rules change. I think Wes and others understand this point. You might not understand this, but trademark protection is extremely important to companies and there have been cases of a company losing the rights to a trademark because they failed to protect it. I've already given my thoughts on the idea of exacting revenge on a company that's trying to protect its logos.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Aside from the company stuff... I'm still a little confused... Can we or can we NOT use the graphics on our scale boats??

The protection of the trademark is fine... I can understand a company doing that... but what does this mean for those of use running "DeWalt" decals?? Even if we made them ourselves...??

Going to be touch having a "scale" class and include boats with any campany still in business if we have to buy permission to use the decals...

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

The concept here is doing it for profit, no matter how small. In the case I cited with Lockheed the way it was finally explained is that they are required to use a zero tolerance approach because if they let one person get away with it, then it makes them harder to go after the next one who may really be ripping them off.

As far as I have seen there has never been an issue when you do it for your own private use. It is when you start selling the logo is when it becomes an issue. But sometimes it backfires. Years ago I lived in Tucson and there was an eye doctor who called his practice "For You Eyes Only". He got served a cease and desist order by the studio that made the Bond film of a similar name. His lawyer wrote backs showing the Doc's DBA filed several year before the Bond film and demanded that they, the film studio, compensate his client for infringing on HIS name. They paid up, and shut up and the eye doctor went on his merry way.

And again, the central issue here is selling the logos without permission, not using them to decorate your own model. We all get our panties in a bunch when we think a boat has been splashed, yet this seems OK with people. How odd.

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

Can we or can we NOT use the graphics on our scale boats??

Personal use is not likely to be an issue for any company. It is the commercial use of their logo that they get bothered about. Ask the folks you work for how they feel about the unauthorized use of their name or logo.

 

[Mike McKnight]

With regards to DeWalt no. They are apparently making it very clear that it is not ok. However for them to request any pictures is asinine. That is personal intelectual property and they can go pound sand. Darin I wouldn't worry about it. In my particular case I was torpedoed by another graphics shop who thought he could get me in trouble. It was a hassle but I lived to fight another day.

 

[Bigbird]

Lots of good points here. I guess my big beef is that Dewalt has chosen to go after a very small infraction. And the way they handled it, I think was underhanded or blindsided or however you want to put it. Big companys sometimes forget that the very people they don't want using their name are the people that use their product. In this case Dewalt power tools. I am sure that there is some type of Dewalt or Black n Decker tool in most of our shops. With the economy the way it is you would think a little free publicity would be of benifit to sales. I would just like to see us stand together, and send a message to DeWalt that we are not pleased with their actions toward our hobbie.

BB

 

[piper_chuck]

Lots of good points here. I guess my big beef is that Dewalt has chosen to go after a very small infraction. And the way they handled it, I think was underhanded or blindsided or however you want to put it. Big companys sometimes forget that the very people they don't want using their name are the people that use their product. In this case Dewalt power tools. I am sure that there is some type of Dewalt or Black n Decker tool in most of our shops. With the economy the way it is you would think a little free publicity would be of benifit to sales. I would just like to see us stand together, and send a message to DeWalt that we are not pleased with their actions toward our hobbie.
BB

They have no idea whether it's a small infraction or a big one. They just know they found an infringement on their trademark and they are probably taking the same action they would with any other similar infringement. Free advertising would probably be welcome, but they have no way of knowing they would be getting such, and it's really not their responsibility as a trademark holder to start such a discussion with someone they've found using their trademark. The burden should be be on the person who desires to help them out with some free advertising to submit a plan, before they begin using the trademark.

If your last sentence is a suggestion of a campaign where we all communicate our discontent to Dewalt in the form of letters, phone calls, emails, etc, then I think this is a much better idea than boycotting their products.

 

[Darin Jordan]

OK, well I'm going to keep running the darn thing until such time as I'm told I can't... Then I'll worry about repainting it...

In the meantime, I'll continue buying whichever tools suit my current needs, including DeWalt... they are some of the best tools I've owned and have served me well...

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Can we or can we NOT use the graphics on our scale boats??

Personal use is not likely to be an issue for any company. It is the commercial use of their logo that they get bothered about. Ask the folks you work for how they feel about the unauthorized use of their name or logo.

See, that's my problem. I always treat other people (or companies) the way I would like to be treated. For me, If anyone wants to reproduce my logo to promote my product then I am tickled to death. With the scale boats I see us as simply continuing the sponsorship that was started by that company at no extra cost to them. Yes, I am making a small profit but I am pretty sure they have access to my tax records to see that I'm nothing more than a small mom and pop company.

They may be wrong but if you read the letter, they state that I cannot have ANYTHING bearing their logo wether it is for reproduction or not. IF that were so than we scale boaters cannot have any boat bearing a registered trademark unless we have permission.

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

This might help. It is the US Copyright Office information on the concept of "Fair Use"

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

This might help. It is the US Copyright Office information on the concept of "Fair Use"
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

If any one of these companies have never released a decal of their own as a promotional item, accompanying a purchase, or customer appreciation of some sort I can see their argument. But many of these companies issue thousands if not millions of decals with their logo on it. And none of these decals come with a terms of use message. So if I were a laywer my argument would be "I thought I was doing more of what they wanted me to do" which is promote their product. Isn't that why they put logo in the box in the first place?" Since there was no terms of use I figured I can do what I want? After all they provided it to me.

 

[SayMikey]

Lots of good points here. I guess my big beef is that Dewalt has chosen to go after a very small infraction. And the way they handled it, I think was underhanded or blindsided or however you want to put it. Big companys sometimes forget that the very people they don't want using their name are the people that use their product. In this case Dewalt power tools. I am sure that there is some type of Dewalt or Black n Decker tool in most of our shops. With the economy the way it is you would think a little free publicity would be of benifit to sales. I would just like to see us stand together, and send a message to DeWalt that we are not pleased with their actions toward our hobbie.
BB

They have no idea whether it's a small infraction or a big one. They just know they found an infringement on their trademark and they are probably taking the same action they would with any other similar infringement. Free advertising would probably be welcome, but they have no way of knowing they would be getting such, and it's really not their responsibility as a trademark holder to start such a discussion with someone they've found using their trademark. The burden should be be on the person who desires to help them out with some free advertising to submit a plan, before they begin using the trademark.

If your last sentence is a suggestion of a campaign where we all communicate our discontent to Dewalt in the form of letters, phone calls, emails, etc, then I think this is a much better idea than boycotting their products.

I went to there website and emailed a letter with an explanation of what we do i even asked for a raffle prize maybe Wes will win it if it comes. I also invited them to a R/C boat race so they could see and understand first hand that we are in no way hurting there bussiness. I will let you know the reply Mike

 

[Bigbird]

Lots of good points here. I guess my big beef is that Dewalt has chosen to go after a very small infraction. And the way they handled it, I think was underhanded or blindsided or however you want to put it. Big companys sometimes forget that the very people they don't want using their name are the people that use their product. In this case Dewalt power tools. I am sure that there is some type of Dewalt or Black n Decker tool in most of our shops. With the economy the way it is you would think a little free publicity would be of benifit to sales. I would just like to see us stand together, and send a message to DeWalt that we are not pleased with their actions toward our hobbie.
BB

They have no idea whether it's a small infraction or a big one. They just know they found an infringement on their trademark and they are probably taking the same action they would with any other similar infringement. Free advertising would probably be welcome, but they have no way of knowing they would be getting such, and it's really not their responsibility as a trademark holder to start such a discussion with someone they've found using their trademark. The burden should be be on the person who desires to help them out with some free advertising to submit a plan, before they begin using the trademark.

If your last sentence is a suggestion of a campaign where we all communicate our discontent to Dewalt in the form of letters, phone calls, emails, etc, then I think this is a much better idea than boycotting their products.

Don't put words in my mouth. I made it very clear that I will not be a patron of a company that does business this way. It's Makita for me. This is a no DeWalt household.

BB

 

[Mike McKnight]

This might help. It is the US Copyright Office information on the concept of "Fair Use"
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Bill the "Fair Use" act really does not apply in this case. Copyrights really only cover recordings of sound and video and printed text like books and magazines. I deal with that all the time. For example if you by a CD at a store, under the "Fair Use" act you are allowed to make one copy of it for personal use. You are not allowed to make numerous copies for sale. When I ran a DJ business, many multi-system operators were getting raided and busted for buying one copy and then making copies for each system. I also had bar owners that were getting bullied by ASCAP and BMI (music licensing agencies) for royalites because they had a DJ. They also were charged per TV screen as well since even ESPN jingles and such are licensed material and they were providing it for the public so they had to pay royalties. Now I have to pay an annual licensing fee for any licensed music I use in the production of video. I pay for each song I use. Also I hold a copyright on any videos I produce and so on.

Trademarks are governed by a different set of laws. Some similarities exist between it and copyright laws but the biggest difference is because the logo for a given company is their maketing brand and if it is a registered trademark you cannot use or reproduce it without written permission of the the trademark holder. I went back and looked at some of the logo libraries I had. Two offered a limited licensing agreement. That all changed in the late nineties. In fact the current versions all have a disclaimer similar to this:

By Downloading this artwork you agree to the following:

 

The above logo design and the artwork you are about to download is the intellectual property of the copyright and/or trademark holder and is offered to you as a convenience for lawful use with proper permission from the copyright and/or trademark holder only. You hereby agree that you agree to the Terms of Use and that the artwork you download will be used for non-commercial use without infringing on the rights of the copyright and/or trademark holder and in compliance with the DMCA act of 1998. Before you use or reproduce this artwork in any manner, you agree to obtain the express permission of the copyright and/or trademark holder. Failure to obtain such permission is a violation of international copyright and trademark laws subject to specific financial and criminal penalties.

Technically the company that provided that logo is in violation as well unless they have written permission from each of the 50,000 or so logos they have in their catalog. Chances are they dont.

The "Fair Use" act really only applies to copyrights and not trademarked logos according the lawyers. I was covered somewhat since the library I used came with a licensing agreement and I had not updated. All the 2008 versions I looked at have a similar disclaimer to what is above.

 

[M. Stein]

Sorry to hear about the problem with the Free advertising everybody was giving Black and Decker. Guess I will have to look at a different box color next time I purchase - hate to say it but it might be a green box.

I am not sure about currently but I know some of the craftsman power tools were also made by Dewalt.

What might be a good thing to do is send this along to Black and Decker to give them a taste of what their small issue for them can really balloon into. I Hate money grubbing scum like that regardless of who started it. You had done them a favor by getting there name out in front of the public by people who at least at one time were proud to display it for B & D for FREE. And if I remember these people also pay royalty on the team shirts that alot of the scale drivers wear, somewhere a company should see the light on what they are really doing. Seems bad enough that the reality of it is whenever we buy one of there products we already pay a royalty fee for that tool. THis is based on free market and what the perceived value of that tool is to the potential buyer. They get free advertising every time somebody sees you pick up that tool because we put OUR money down depending on that tool to be a quality product. It wasnt like you were making tools and sticking there name it , It was a sticker. At some point somebody had to come up with a thought that the perceived value of the decals was $ xxx dollars but left out the potential loss of income at a corporate level do to negative pulicity. Not to mention what I am sure it cost them meatheads to make a desision on what it costs them to have a lawyer decide how much royalty they should make off of a said decal or program. Nothing is free in bussiness except perceived quality and would dare say whatever gain they thought they could get has atleast now cost them double. Foolish corporate greed

I am currently trying to find a paint color for my Sport 40 and you can bet it wont be Dewalt yellow. on second thought maybe it will be with a disclaimer that I dont endorse Anyone using B&D tools or any of there other brandnames since they cannot control themselves and I PERCEIVE that as a corporate problem and no longer which to be an enabler of that type of foolishness.

Sorry about the rant - I am just cheesed - BTW I have a couple Yellow tools to donate to the B&D tool burning party if anyone is interested. :lol:

Mark

 

[TERMINATOR]

Sorry to hear about the problem with the Free advertising everybody was giving Black and Decker. Guess I will have to look at a different box color next time I purchase - hate to say it but it might be a green box.
I am not sure about currently but I know some of the craftsman power tools were also made by Dewalt.

What might be a good thing to do is send this along to Black and Decker to give them a taste of what their small issue for them can really balloon into. I Hate money grubbing scum like that regardless of who started it. You had done them a favor by getting there name out in front of the public by people who at least at one time were proud to display it for B & D for FREE. And if I remember these people also pay royalty on the team shirts that alot of the scale drivers wear, somewhere a company should see the light on what they are really doing. Seems bad enough that the reality of it is whenever we buy one of there products we already pay a royalty fee for that tool. THis is based on free market and what the perceived value of that tool is to the potential buyer. They get free advertising every time somebody sees you pick up that tool because we put OUR money down depending on that tool to be a quality product. It wasnt like you were making tools and sticking there name it , It was a sticker. At some point somebody had to come up with a thought that the perceived value of the decals was $ xxx dollars but left out the potential loss of income at a corporate level do to negative pulicity. Not to mention what I am sure it cost them meatheads to make a desision on what it costs them to have a lawyer decide how much royalty they should make off of a said decal or program. Nothing is free in bussiness except perceived quality and would dare say whatever gain they thought they could get has atleast now cost them double. Foolish corporate greed

I am currently trying to find a paint color for my Sport 40 and you can bet it wont be Dewalt yellow. on second thought maybe it will be with a disclaimer that I dont endorse Anyone using B&D tools or any of there other brandnames since they cannot control themselves and I PERCEIVE that as a corporate problem and no longer which to be an enabler of that type of foolishness.

Sorry about the rant - I am just cheesed - BTW I have a couple Yellow tools to donate to the B&D tool burning party if anyone is interested. :lol:

Mark

ill donate the crap no signal gettin radio that is a De Funked product.. i hit it every other day in hopes to kill it.. tomorrow it dies!!!! for you wes.

tk

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

Bill the "Fair Use" act really does not apply in this case.

In the past I have seen this concept applied to logos, etc. But you are right, it applies more to written materials. I was posting it simply to get the term out there.

 

[Bigbird]

Sorry to hear about the problem with the Free advertising everybody was giving Black and Decker. Guess I will have to look at a different box color next time I purchase - hate to say it but it might be a green box.
I am not sure about currently but I know some of the craftsman power tools were also made by Dewalt.

What might be a good thing to do is send this along to Black and Decker to give them a taste of what their small issue for them can really balloon into. I Hate money grubbing scum like that regardless of who started it. You had done them a favor by getting there name out in front of the public by people who at least at one time were proud to display it for B & D for FREE. And if I remember these people also pay royalty on the team shirts that alot of the scale drivers wear, somewhere a company should see the light on what they are really doing. Seems bad enough that the reality of it is whenever we buy one of there products we already pay a royalty fee for that tool. THis is based on free market and what the perceived value of that tool is to the potential buyer. They get free advertising every time somebody sees you pick up that tool because we put OUR money down depending on that tool to be a quality product. It wasnt like you were making tools and sticking there name it , It was a sticker. At some point somebody had to come up with a thought that the perceived value of the decals was $ xxx dollars but left out the potential loss of income at a corporate level do to negative pulicity. Not to mention what I am sure it cost them meatheads to make a desision on what it costs them to have a lawyer decide how much royalty they should make off of a said decal or program. Nothing is free in bussiness except perceived quality and would dare say whatever gain they thought they could get has atleast now cost them double. Foolish corporate greed

I am currently trying to find a paint color for my Sport 40 and you can bet it wont be Dewalt yellow. on second thought maybe it will be with a disclaimer that I dont endorse Anyone using B&D tools or any of there other brandnames since they cannot control themselves and I PERCEIVE that as a corporate problem and no longer which to be an enabler of that type of foolishness.

Sorry about the rant - I am just cheesed - BTW I have a couple Yellow tools to donate to the B&D tool burning party if anyone is interested. :lol:

Mark

ill donate the crap no signal gettin radio that is a De Funked product.. i hit it every other day in hopes to kill it.. tomorrow it dies!!!! for you wes.

tk

AMEN

 

[Mike Cathey]

I can't sell any more Dewelt (misspelled on purpose) decals to the "public". Apparently their attorneys cant find anything better to do than to go after little mom and pop businesses. They bought a set of decals then sent me a registered letter demanding $22000. and all my pictures of the boat that had their "copyrighted" logo on them. I'm sending them a letter with all my pics of my son holding his boat and trophy from the races as well as all of my Dewelt tools in lou of payment kuz I sure as heck don't want em any more!
ps If you respond to this post do not spell out their name. I'm sure they found my web site by googling their name.

I've bought my last yellow tool and I'm going to write them a letter telling them why. How petty and rinky-dink can you get!!