.......and some more IMPBA gray matter

[Ron Olson]

After just looking at Tony's link, I have a few questions. OK, as Bill or Tony might bring up so I'll beat them to the punch, I'm not currently an IMPBA member for reasons that I've stated before, nothing to do with the IMPBA but health reasons have kept me from racing the past two years.

I see that the President, FE Director, Gas Director and why for the life of me the one that I can't figure out, the past President each have one vote. Does this include the vote that they might have already had on this or any other proposal? Their votes alone can sway a proposal that could over-ride any by one or more smaller districts.

Again though, I will ask, why does a past President have a right to be able to sway or influence the whole Electoral College style of voting? What if Bill Clinton could do this to George W.? The 2.94% might not sound like much until a critical vote was needed. Add that up times 4 and see what you get.

I'm not looking for trouble as I respect both Tony and Dom Mauro. I'd still be more for a one person, one vote type of system as that might bring more voters out of the woodwork.

 

[ACLazer]

So it's time to put away the smoke & mirrors................

Don, no smoke and no mirrors. I have worked very hard on this Proposal and it will be a year soon when I first started working on it. I encourage you and hope that you can come up with a better Proposal and I will support it and Vote for it too no matter what the results are of mine, that's a promise.

I'd be interested in reading your ideas about how to improve voting participation. Can you post them here, or email them to me ([email protected])?

Chuck, I haven't finished it yet and I would also like to see the results of the current Proposal I have presented and the actual number of returned Votes returned within all the Districts. I think that the percentage of the Voting Power within a District should be limited to the percentage of Votes returned within that District. It will be based on the amount of returned Votes on a scale.

The "one member" and "one vote" method does sound good on paper but if one of the larger Districts do get close to all it's members to Vote it could control the IMPBA as a whole.

I have never seen the "Big 3", meaning all 3 of the bigger Districts agree on all matters at hand at the same time, in fact it's just the opposite. If you look at the numbers it's as close to a single member Vote as we can get without going to a single member Vote.

"In the House, representation is based on the number of people living in each state. There are a total of 435 representatives in the House. Each member represents an area of the state, known as a congressional district. The number of representatives is based on the number of districts in a state. Therefore, states with larger populations have more representation than states with smaller populations

Please read Tony's post and study the graph that he has presented.

What if Bill Clinton could do this to George W.? The 2.94% might not sound like much until a critical vote was needed. Add that up times 4 and see what you get.

Thanks Ron. If the new Proposal passes it will "help" address this issue and your right, but I feel if they are still involved in the IMPBA, and some are, that they should have a say too. To what extent do we involve them though, or how much Voting Power should they have, and how would we control them on an individual bases?

I just want to say thanks for reading and thanks for taking the time to post all your responses if you support the Proposal or not.

Dom

 

[piper_chuck]

Chuck, I haven't finished it yet and I would also like to see the results of the current Proposal I have presented and the actual number of returned Votes returned within all the Districts. I think that the percentage of the Voting Power within a District should be limited to the percentage of Votes returned within that District. It will be based on the amount of returned Votes on a scale.

The "one member" and "one vote" method does sound good on paper but if one of the larger Districts do get close to all it's members to Vote it could control the IMPBA as a whole.

I look forward to seeing it when you're ready to share. Meanwhile my thoughts on the one member one vote idea. Don and I talked about it last night. I still feel it's the best way to go, but that's not the vote on the table right now, so this is a discussion for the future, not the present.

As Ron noted, it might get more members to vote. Note, that's a hope, but I know for the large part apathy will win. I've heard your reason above as one of the exposures of direct voting. And if the thing you mention above happens, and others don't like the outcome, shame on the rest of us. A direct voting system gives each of us a voice. As individuals it's up to us to use it. Our district leadership, friends, people online, and others, can choose to try to steer us in a certain direction, but in the end it's our own individual responsibility.

With the current electoral college system, there's a big disincentive against voting. Note, the following is one theory on why some people might be not voting. I don't agree with thinking this way, but I'm sure some people think this way. If I know I agree with most of the people in my district I can just ignore the vote because I'm sure the outcome will agree with my thinking. If I disagree with most of the people in my district I also may not bother to vote because I know I'm in the minority and my vote doesn't matter. Only on close votes would this type of person care to vote.

I'm sure there are others who wonder if the vote they send to their directors is even counted. I know I do. During the last round of votes I never received any confirmation from my director that he got my email. The only vote I've submitted, so far, this time is on this issue and John Equi sent confirmation almost immediately. Thanks John, much appreciated. In fact, I like the idea of having ALL votes go to one place, get tallied, and then have the numbers go out as appropriate. Having one (independent) person focused on just this task provides more transparency, reduces complexity (how many different places do the current round of votes have to go?), and reduces the chance of votes being missed.

The above are just some thoughts on why people may be ignoring voting. I'm sure there are other reasons.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. This is a very important issue,

GET YOUR VOTES IN!

 

[bzubee]

Thanks Chuck for your thoughts.

 

[Radioactive]

If proposal #05-012 (Redistricting) passes then district 6 will pick up 4 more states.. Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma and Colorado..

D6 would then consist of 9 states.. Minnesota, Iowa, N Dakota, S Dakota, Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma and Colorado and I do not know how many new members from the APBA merger, this causes me concern on the proposed #05-012 (amendment on voting)

It would leave D7 with only New Mexico and Texas, there are no active IMPBA clubs in NM and only 4 in Texas. So as a member of D7 in any future vote my voice would carry little weight...

I guess on the bright side if passed I wouldn't have to drive but a few hours to get to all of the district events...

 

[ACLazer]

Chuck

I applaud yourself and Dons efforts on the one man one vote system. I think if you can work it out so the Districts that do return votes will benefit from it and the ones that don't, won't, it could work and I will support it 100%. I just think it's allot to ask from the current members that do get involved and vote to help make up for the members that "don't" vote or get involved and have a history of not voting at all won't work. I just think it's a BIG step forward without knowing the History of Districts who do Vote. I think we need to get the members involved and get them to vote first before we can go a step further and support a one man voting system. My original Proposal was based on the one man vote and after speaking with Bill Zuber, many members and many District Directors they talked me right out of it. I then looked at the numbers and thought every 50 members and one vote may work but the smaller Districts would have gained none to little Voting Power at all. The members that helped me prepare my current Proposal said lets go every 30 members and one vote, that way the smaller districts would gain more voting power too. I understand what Don and yourself are saying about the larger districts having 5 and 6 votes but we thought this was the best way to get closer to a one man one vote system without actually doing it. I am also hoping that we can get Florida involved and back into the IMPBA. The IMPBA will actually break even this year, or maybe even lose a few dollars and if we can get Florida back into the picture this will generate the needed revenue that the IMPBA drastically needs right now. I am sure once they are back in the black again and they can put some of the "old bills" left to them behind them and move on it will create a trickle down effect and us as Members will benefit from this as well. I understand you don't support my Proposal, and that's ok, I would just like to give it a chance to pass or fail on it's own merit. I have no hidden agenda here and I just want whats best for the IMPBA and it's Members.

I also want to thank Bill and John for what they have done for us as Members and the IMPBA in the "short time" they have been in office. You can see they are going in the right direction and I am hoping it continues and helps make the IMPBA and it's members better in the future to come.

Thanks and Good Luck

Dom

 

[BigChuck]

DOM, this Will start more.......But.......... That same proposal was shot down and Florida left. No POWER!!

Getting them BACK???????????? Hummmmmm you said it.

Its been a while since that took place. But their are people on the board who were directly involved in this.

And I can think of one that is sitting back and saying' Here we go AGAIN!" " Not me, Not this time."

Unfortunately for all of us we can not see what others are thinking of this. And having been asked that question a few times!! " All of this over toy boats!"

What will be the Highlite of all this is the fact that "NEW AND IMPROVED is NOT ALWAYS BETTER" And them

The rest of us will have to set back and WAIT will the POWER DISTRICT goes through it's OWN Power struggle!! As we ALL KNOW THAT iS COMING AS WELL!!!!!!!!!! GOOD LUCK TO US ALL............SOME OF US WILL NOT STAY TO THE END.................... Like the LAST TIME!

 

[RaceCraftBearings]

Sorry Dom, no one talked us (Florida) into going to NAMBA. There was talk of it for years before we finally did. Then we decided as a group to change to NAMBA for various reasons.

Just so you know I support both IMPBA and NAMBA, I am one who thinks that if we were all under one Organization we would all be better off. I really dont think this will ever happen nor do I see Florida going back to IMPBA.

PS Let us not forget that this is Toy Boats and I really dont get why politics has to raise its ugly head and create decinsion amongst the memebrs whom without there would be no organization.

IE the NFL with out a fan base dies.

Ron

Don, I am sorry to see you can only bring out any negatives in the proposal and not bring about any of the positives involved if this passes. The one member, one vote, type of thing sounds great on the surface but the problem is that many members do not always vote. You could easily have one district have more returned votes than the next and it will get complete say in all that happens within the IMPBA organization. All the proposal does is allow smaller districts a larger voice in what goes on within the origination and more evenly space out the Voting power of all the Districts. This is one step closer to one member one vote in my opinion. A few smaller Districts can easily cancel out any of the larger Districts Voting with it's new voting power. The IMPBA has MAJOR Issues with members NOT voting. The returned votes are ridiculous and if I told everyone the numbers returned you would never believe it. Please contact your District Director and ask him or her if it would be ok if you Voted via Email if you support it or not. I also think that we need some type of Scale that will help encourage and represent the amount of Votes returned in a District. I am planning another Proposal next year to better help the IMPBA get more returned Votes and it will also have a built in scale that will affect that Districts voting power based on returned votes and participating members of that District. The IMPBA is as only good as its Members make it. If your not happy with something within the Organization get in contact with your District Director and ask what "you" can do to help make it better, get involved and ask questions, don't just complain about it. I am also hoping with the passing of this proposal that there may be a possibility of gaining Florida back into IMPBA organization. Florida wanted more representation for their 300 members and at that time the IMPBA BOD did a compromise and allowed the 200 member rule to go into affect and Florida board members did not think that was enough representation for the number of their members and talked the majority of their members into switching to the NAMBA organization. I am sure the Proposal I presented won't make everyone happy but I still think its a step in the right direction for the IMPBA and its Members. It will give the smaller Districts much more power as well as the bigger districts. I think its as close to a single member vote as we can get. This is not written in stone and if someone else has a better idea you can present it just like I did. I have no hidden agenda with the passing of the Proposal, I am just trying to help make the IMPBA and it's members better. Times change and so do Rules and the current Rules are so old and out dated it's time for a change.

Here is a graph that Tony Jacuzzi prepared a few months back that I hope will help you better understand the numbers and Voting Power that will transpire if the Proposal passes.

Voting Graph

Please VOTE

Thank You

Dom Mauro

IMPBA # 18608 S CD

 

[piper_chuck]

Chuck

I applaud yourself and Dons efforts on the one man one vote system. I think if you can work it out so the Districts that do return votes will benefit from it and the ones that don't, won't, it could work and I will support it 100%.

I'm still trying to figure out this us versus them feeling I keep seeing people express. I view myself first and foremost as a member of IMPBA. District 12 just happens to be the geographical region I belong to. When I think about how to vote I consider the effect on IMPBA, not whether District 12 will benefit from it or not. In response to your comment, the one member one vote system would result in an IMPBA that's run by the members. If one district has a higher turnout then their voice will be stronger. However, why should it matter? Regardless what district we happen to live in, aren't we all after the same thing, to have fun racing boats?

I just think it's allot to ask from the current members that do get involved and vote to help make up for the members that "don't" vote or get involved and have a history of not voting at all won't work. I just think it's a BIG step forward without knowing the History of Districts who do Vote. I think we need to get the members involved and get them to vote first before we can go a step further and support a one man voting system. My original Proposal was based on the one man vote and after speaking with Bill Zuber, many members and many District Directors they talked me right out of it. I then looked at the numbers and thought every 50 members and one vote may work but the smaller Districts would have gained none to little Voting Power at all. The members that helped me prepare my current Proposal said lets go every 30 members and one vote, that way the smaller districts would gain more voting power too.

Dom, I don't want to argue with you, but everytime you say this it just doesn't add up. I think you're mixing up giving a district another vote with giving a district more power. The plan you've proposed may give a small district another vote, but since you would give even more votes to the larger districts, at the end of the day the small districts end up with LESS power, not more.

I understand what Don and yourself are saying about the larger districts having 5 and 6 votes but we thought this was the best way to get closer to a one man one vote system without actually doing it. I am also hoping that we can get Florida involved and back into the IMPBA. The IMPBA will actually break even this year, or maybe even lose a few dollars and if we can get Florida back into the picture this will generate the needed revenue that the IMPBA drastically needs right now. I am sure once they are back in the black again and they can put some of the "old bills" left to them behind them and move on it will create a trickle down effect and us as Members will benefit from this as well. I understand you don't support my Proposal, and that's ok, I would just like to give it a chance to pass or fail on it's own merit. I have no hidden agenda here and I just want whats best for the IMPBA and it's Members.

At this point, the proposal needs to run its course. When that's finished, we'll be into another racing season.

I've read the rules and constitution quite thoroughly. It's obvious that due to the way they are worded, and the way things transpire, conditions are right to drive people apart instead of pulling them together. I don't know all of the history behind Florida, but from what I've learned so far, they are a prime example. Vague rules full of loopholes don't create harmony, they foster resentment when different people interpret them in different ways. I applaud Bill's efforts to try to bring people together.

One thing that I'm still trying to understand is how it could possibly be right to even consider giving a decision to a minority of those who vote. Doing so is bound to create bad feelings among the majority.

Sorry Dom, no one talked us (Florida) into going to NAMBA. There was talk of it for years before we finally did. Then we decided as a group to change to NAMBA for various reasons.

Just so you know I support both IMPBA and NAMBA, I am one who thinks that if we were all under one Organization we would all be better off. I really dont think this will ever happen nor do I see Florida going back to IMPBA.

I wonder how many others out there feel we should all be part of one organization. I've always thought it's a pity that small differences and politics keep us divided.

 

[Brian Schymik]

I bet there are a lot more people out there who would like one organization than have spoken up. B)

Brian

 

[SayMikey]

I bet there are a lot more people out there who would like one organization than have spoken up. B)

Brian

I feel at some point if we dont all get together into one organization we are doomed as boaters. How old are you? do your kids race? I wonder what the average age of boaters are out there? I could care less which org. is better, in fifteen years where will we all be the numbers show we will all be watching nascar races and the sport will be dead. I have raced over 20 years maybe have another 20 if my health stays good,it would be a tragady for this sport to die instead of grow. How many members does your club have and at what point was it at its largest? We have seen decline over the last 10 years. One or two new members a year per club does not make up for the ones that leave this life or sport. We need to attract new members by showing them how strong we are as clubs,districts and orgs. Hobbico has added forms for joining both orgs. this could help us all,lets try to grow together as clubs after all i think we all have a common goal. Mike Schindler IMPBA 9112 D14 RIVER CITY RACING CLUB president

 

[ACLazer]

Sorry Dom, no one talked us (Florida) into going to NAMBA. There was talk of it for years before we finally did. Then we decided as a group to change to NAMBA for various reasons.

Thanks Ron, I was never directly involved in this all I can go by is the minutes that were sent to me when it all went down and speaking to a few IMPBA Members from Florida.

I'm still trying to figure out this us versus them feeling I keep seeing people express. I view myself first and foremost as a member of IMPBA. District 12 just happens to be the geographical region I belong to. When I think about how to vote I consider the effect on IMPBA, not whether District 12 will benefit from it or not. In response to your comment, the one member one vote system would result in an IMPBA that's run by the members. If one district has a higher turnout then their voice will be stronger.

Thanks Chuck, but this is exactly what I am trying to do here, what's best for the IMPBA and it's Members. The Proposal is as close to making it a single member vote as we can make it. Then why are you afraid of a few larger Districts having more votes then the smaller less populated ones?

Dom, I don't want to argue with you, but everytime you say this it just doesn't add up. I think you're mixing up giving a district another vote with giving a district more power. The plan you've proposed may give a small district another vote, but since you would give even more votes to the larger districts, at the end of the day the small districts end up with LESS power, not more

I never ever thought we were arguing here, I thought we were just trying to make a point and why we feel the way we do and express our opinions. I respect your opinion and I do understand what you are saying and hope that you will respect mine as well and try and understand why I feel the way I do.

I wonder how many others out there feel we should all be part of one organization. I've always thought it's a pity that small differences and politics keep us divided.

I feel the same way and wonder if that is in our near future. I respect your thoughts and opinions and maybe someday we could even race together and maybe you can show me a thing or two about Nitro Boats, no I'm SURE you could.

I bet there are a lot more people out there who would like one organization than have spoken up.

Thanks Brian and your RIGHT, I am sure there are many more out there.

I won't respond to anymore comments here as I am sure you guys are getting sick of reading my Posts by now. To top it all off I am a Gas Boater and not a Nitro Boater as most are here. You guys have to be saying, "is this Gas Guy ever going to shut up" ? :lol: I do give allot more respect to the Nitro Guys at Races then I do the Gas Guys, ask anyone, as I feel that's the only way we will ever get around this "us and them" frame of mind that allot of Racers have about the Gas and Nitro thing. The last Club Meeting we had this year before we had our Annual D2 Race I was the guy that was almost stoned to death trying to add 2 more Nitro Classes to the event, they did get added by the way. Not an easy thing to do when your a Member of an all Gas Club :blink:

Thanks and Good Luck

Dom

 

[bzubee]

Hey Dom that is smart marketing for your race. Guys forget your race is a product you have to work at selling by offering something special to make your race stand out from others. Members that still think just because you offer a race they will come will soon find out the hard way they were WRONG. Too many races offered all over for a racer to bother with attending a hohum event. They want fun and entertainment and something special besides jsut a race for their entry fee.

 

[Marty Davis]

Don, Think of an election if there are 3 candates it would be the same. Why would you add the votes of 2 different ammendments to a proposal? Majority of the amemndments wins. If you want something to turn out a certain way start campaigning and try to get the members to vote.

No children can not vote they are not spouses.

Bill:

Who made this proposal at the Board Meeting? Please, just a name, not a long bunch of baloney.

Marty Davis

 

[bzubee]

I presented it at the request of the Stl Thunderboaters and other IMPBA members in MO and KS.

 

[Marty Davis]

I presented it at the request of the Stl Thunderboaters and other IMPBA members in MO and KS.

Bill:

If you are looking for more equitable representation, why not just do away with the District Voting and just tally ALL the votes Nationally without disticts?

This proposal is a TERRIBLE attempt to consolidate power. :angry:

Marty Davis

Past VP IMPBA

 

[bzubee]

Sorry Marty I thought you were talking about a different proposal this one was presented to the board by Dom Mauro IT was introduced at the board meeting by me for Tony Jacuzzi since he could not attend and our phone connection did not really work well. Randall Thomas made the amended proposal.

Reason I like the amended version is it still has some protection from a largely populated district from completely dominating the whole oprganization I believe the IMPBA still needs some checks and balances and the amended version provides that.

 

[Chris Wood]

Bill,

Just curious. Out of the whole IMPBA in the last years voting. how many people accually voted vs how many members we have. ( on any topic pres election, rules changes whatever the item for voting was)

I get the feeling there is alot of people reading this that don't understand what is going on or choose to stay out of it?????

chris

 

[bzubee]

usual is about 20% return or less depending on the issue and time the ballot comes out. If ballot is in middle of racing season not many read or bother with the ballots. We have gotten more now with the new spreading of ballots through I'waters and Jim's these are great tools to get the word out. Then it is up to the members to do the work of voting.

Come to think of it about the same amount of members that work at a race, actually also do the voting <_< I wonder why that is?

 

[Don Ferrette]

I also would like to remind everyone that Dom's proposal was not voted on or approved by the IMPBA board of directors, it was tabled! It back-doored it's way out to the general membership due to a loophole in our by laws. <_<

Please exercise common sense & vote for amendment B one vote per 100 members.

Follow your President's lead folks!